Galileo

[KSP 1.4.5] Galileo's Planet Pack [v1.6.3.1] [03 Aug 2018]

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3 hours ago, MaxL_1023 said:

I looked up - looks like we have about 10 degrees to spare assuming 315 Kelvins. Not sure about a greenhouse effect due to the CO2 dominated atmosphere. The pressure is just enough to make take-offs annoying, although the density makes parachutes quite effective. 

I've been there in testing, mainly with karbonite jet engines. The atm pressure is so low even ASL that takeoff is a pain, but I kinda like that the issue is there. It adds uniqueness.

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46 minutes ago, MaxL_1023 said:

Honestly I am not 100% sure that Niven would ever have been able to hold onto water vapor due to its low mass. With only half a G on the surface even Nitrogen might be able to escape - I know Mars has trouble with anything lighter than CO2 and it is much colder with about 75% of the surface gravity. 

My calculations gave me a molecular weight of 20 for the lightest gas that Niven can retain.  But that is only a ballpark estimate.

I used a root-mean-square speed that's 10% of the escape velocity.
 

Edited by OhioBob

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1 minute ago, OhioBob said:

It's borderline.

The locations where I placed the lakes is where the surface temperature ranges between the freezing point and the boiling point of water.  Unfortunately I figured the boiling point at 0.1 atm pressure, which means the atmosphere would be 100% water vapor.  (Is that right?)  I probably ought to compute it for a pressure of something like 0.005 or 0.01 atm (5%-10% water).

It depends on how transient the lakes are and what type of weather you have. The lakes will not boil the vapor pressure is greater than the total atmospheric pressure. However, the water vapor pressure determines whether or not the lakes slowly evaporate into the atmosphere. Slowly in this case means months or years however, not geological time. 

In the case of the moist greenhouse, the atmosphere is basically saturated the whole way up. Niven might be dry enough to escape this - instead you would end up with atmospheric water vapor corresponding to the equilibrium between evaporation and precipitation. Since an atmosphere that thin would likely not be able to sustain much in the way of precipitation, you end up with a lot of water vapor in the air and a loss of surface water over geologically short timescales. 

If Niven was Gael-sized it might be stable (depending on the atmosphere model you use and the solar constant) with some water near the poles. However, almost every habitability model I have seen puts the moist greenhouse threshold at only about 1.1-1.2 times the solar constant at Earth/Kerbin, with smaller planets losing the water faster. Niven is way above most thresholds I have read - it is just a hair under Venus.

9 minutes ago, OhioBob said:

My calculations gave me a molecular weight of 20 for the lightest gas that Niven can retain.  But that is only a ballpark estimate.

I found a calculator which puts Niven (assuming a temperature of about 310 K and a mass of 1.175*10^24 KG) basically in the transition zone. It would be losing water somewhat through normal escape. However, photodissociation is what kills this type of planet. Solar UV breaks apart stratospheric water vapor and the hydrogen escapes - this is what happened to Venus. 

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Quote

(depending on the atmosphere model you use and the solar constant)

Niven's solar constant is about 1.8 times Earth.
 

Quote

However, photodissociation is what kills this type of planet. Solar UV breaks apart stratospheric water vapor and the hydrogen escapes - this is what happened to Venus.

That makes sense.
 

Edited by OhioBob

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So ive been playing ksp since .18 or so and i think the farthest ive made it out is Minmus. Useally due to over modding, sucking at making ships or frustration with the engine and performance.

Im happy to report that i just landed on Iota in a short play through and i feel like i can take on the rest of the universe now!

Just wanted to say thanks for this planet pack. Although looking at the delta map right now and seeing some of the travel times does scare poor jeb a bit.

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I recommend using the Time Control mod. It lets you modify the warp rates to whatever you want, so you can get to the outer planets in a reasonable time or wait for your return window. Tellumo and Niven have orbits fairly close to Gael, so the Hoffman windows are not that close together. 

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2 hours ago, thrandisher said:

Although looking at the delta map right now and seeing some of the travel times does scare poor jeb a bit.

Those travel times are for a Hohmann transfer orbit.  It's possible to reduce the flight time, but the faster the transfer, the more delta-v it will take.  It becomes a trade-off.

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2 hours ago, thrandisher said:

Just wanted to say thanks for this planet pack. Although looking at the delta map right now and seeing some of the travel times does scare poor jeb a bit.

You are more than welcome.  I had a great time making it! If you are using the texture replacer I have bundled with the mod,  you will see Jeb has aged,  and with age comes patience. He has learned,  good things come to those who wait.

Edited by Galileo

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1 minute ago, ockidj said:

Is the runway not supposed to be lined up with the equator?

Yep.  That's a main feature of GPP.  Creates a little,  but not too much,  difficulty. Just to spice things up. 

It's also a little more realistic in my opinion 

Edited by Galileo

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Just now, Galileo said:

Yep.  That's a main feature of GPP.  Creates a little,  but not too much,  difficulty. Just to spice things up

Kerbals aren't very smart

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1 minute ago, ockidj said:

Kerbals aren't very smart

I am considering making a custom nav ball that will help people that have trouble with the change in ksc's location. I'm looking into what the best way to do it would be.  I haven't checked if texture replacers navball replacement is fixed

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1 minute ago, ockidj said:

Kerbals aren't very smart

In all honesty, I'm eyeing up the config setting that would at least make it run straight east-west... I don't know that I can handle it being 30 degrees off kilter. 

@Galileo maybe there's room for an alternate config with an equatorial KSC? The wonky-ness might be costing you some players that would otherwise jump on this pack... (I haven't jumped on it, but I also haven't really touched KSP since 1.2. I will return, and I will conquer that fkking c-cktease world you put in it... but not right now :P

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I honestly barely notice the difference. Even without mechjeb it is not that difficult to correct an 8 degree plane shift. In RSS the delta-v costs are pretty high sometimes, but at stock scale you usually have enough of a margin to get away with it. The key is to launch or time your intercept for the AN/DN of the target with respect to your orbit. 

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Just sent 4 probes to Niven, it is a pretty cool place, Unfortunately the lander probe krakened into pieces after hitting the ground because of some strut parts so no science will be collected from that. :(

One of the orbiter probes just did a flyby and is going to eventually rendezvous back to kerbin and return a capsule with data similar to the OSIRIS-REx mission.

Here is the probe that entered a slightly inclined LNO:

In Orbit Above Niven

The other probe is in a polar orbit. I cant wait to find the easter eggs you speak of in the mods description.

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@eddiew With a little training, and purposely turning toward and a little past the 90­deg heading you can save yourself from a fair portion of the default inclination you'll get. :) That being said, I've only begun to conventionally launch things after test-launching SSTOs several times.

6 minutes ago, 4d4Garrison said:

Just sent 4 probes to Niven, -snip-

going to eventually rendezvous back to kerbin and return a capsule with data similar to the OSIRIS-REx mission.

Lol Kerbin. But that sounds like a nice mission, dude :D

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I am waiting for a good electric propeller mod so I can build planes for Niven, Tellumo and Gratian. It might be hard to get a lot of power once you move farther out from Ciro but a plane would let you do much more exploration as opposed to most realistic lander designs. A multistage spaceplane is the only way I can think of getting off Tellumo somewhat effectively. 

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1 hour ago, MaxL_1023 said:

A multistage spaceplane is the only way I can think of getting off Tellumo somewhat effectively. 

I tested out launching from Tellumo yesterday.  From sea level it is practically impossible with stock engines.  The only engine that produces any appreciable thrust at 10 atm pressure is the Aerospike.  But its TWR is so low that all it can do is lift itself and a small fuel tank.  It has virtually no payload capacity at all.  However, Tellumo's atmospheric pressure decreases so quickly as we ascend that if you can launch from higher terrain it's really not too bad.  I slapped together a two-stage liquid fueled rocket and got to orbit from a starting altitude of 2000 meters with surprising ease.  It took less than 6000 m/s delta-v.  The trick is finding a high flat spot that's large enough to hit when you come in to land.
 

Edited by OhioBob

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5 minutes ago, OhioBob said:

I tested out launching from Tellumo yesterday.  From sea level it is practically impossible with stock engines.  The only engine that produces any appreciable thrust at 10 atm pressure is the Aerospike.  But its TWR is so low that all it can do is lift itself and a small fuel tank.  It has virtually no payload capacity at all.  However, Tellumo's atmospheric pressure decreases so quickly as we ascend that if you can launch from higher terrain it's really not too bad.  I slapped together a two-stage liquid fueled rocket and got to orbit from a starting altitude of 2000 meters with surprising ease.  It took less than 6000 m/s delta-v.  The trick is finding a high flat spot that's large enough to hit when you come in to land.
 

There are some plateaus that extend to 9k so it could potentially be even easier if you pick the right spot. BUT landing at such a spot is very difficult. 

Edited by Galileo

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15 minutes ago, Galileo said:

There are some plateaus that extend to 9k so it could potentially be even easier if you pick the right spot. 

Wow, I had no idea there were plateaus that high.  At 9 km we're already 20% of the way to orbit, and the atmospheric pressure at that height is only 0.4 atm.  Still got the high gravity to deal with, but otherwise it should be a snap to launch from there.
 

15 minutes ago, Galileo said:

BUT landing at such a spot is very difficult.

Right.  I saw several of areas that looked like they were 2+ km high and reasonably flat, but they were all pretty small.
 

Edited by OhioBob

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6 minutes ago, OhioBob said:

Wow, I had no idea there were plateaus that high.  At 9 km we're already 20% of the way to orbit, and the atmospheric pressure at that height is only 0.4 atm.  Still got the high gravity to deal with, but otherwise it should be a snap to launch from there.

All of these plateaus are anywhere from 6.5k to 9k really cool place to land :)

v21rFok.png

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4 minutes ago, Galileo said:

All of these plateaus are anywhere from 6.5k to 9k really cool place to land :)

v21rFok.png

I wish it were possible to create mountain lakes.

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2 hours ago, MaxL_1023 said:

I honestly barely notice the difference. Even without mechjeb it is not that difficult to correct an 8 degree plane shift. In RSS the delta-v costs are pretty high sometimes, but at stock scale you usually have enough of a margin to get away with it. The key is to launch or time your intercept for the AN/DN of the target with respect to your orbit. 

A low orbit plane change to a zero inclination orbit takes about 340 m/s.

I don't know if you noticed, but it's possible to get to Ceti with very little plane change.  The launch site is at 8.5 degrees latitude, and Ceti's orbit is inclined 9 degrees.  So if you time the launch correctly, a due east launch will put you almost into Ceti's orbital plane.  A 1/2 degree tweak only take 20 m/s.

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42 minutes ago, OhioBob said:

I wish it were possible to create mountain lakes.

Yeah that would be cool

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1 hour ago, OhioBob said:

Right.  I saw several of areas that looked like they were 2+ km high and reasonably flat, but they were all pretty small.

Oh I wasn't talking about the areas being small,  but the fact that they are 9km takes away some precious deceleration time.  You will be hitting the surface pretty fast if you aren't careful.  

Edited by Galileo

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