Gordon Fecyk Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 (edited) Jet engines on high pressure Tellumo vs Gael or Kerbin? I'm looking for inspiration for tuning my Explodium engines back in the stock system on Eve. What is the overall experience with stock jet engines on Tellumo with its 5 10 atmospheres of pressure? The stock jets don't take atmospheric pressures beyond 101.3 kPa into consideration in their atmosphereCurve and atmCurve float curves. Has anyone adjusted the stock engines for Tellumo's high pressure atmosphere any? Or does it seem like the stock jets work well enough that they didn't need adjusting? Edited September 7, 2017 by Gordon Fecyk OK, ten atmospheres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeOfMaar Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 1 minute ago, Gordon Fecyk said: Jet engines on high pressure Tellumo vs Gael or Kerbin? I'm looking for inspiration for tuning my Explodium engines back in the stock system on Eve. What is the overall experience with stock jet engines on Tellumo with its 5 atmospheres of pressure? The stock jets don't take atmospheric pressures beyond 101.3 kPa into consideration in their atmosphereCurve and atmCurve float curves. Has anyone adjusted the stock engines for Tellumo's high pressure atmosphere any? Or does it seem like the stock jets work well enough that they didn't need adjusting? From what I can tell, anyone who has even landed on Tellumo has made sure that their landing spot is far from sea level... Tellumo's sea level pressure is not 5 but 10 atm. We did prepare something that would affect stock rockets in the style of @OhioBob's Eve Optimized Engines but that didn't get to see the light of day. You present a nice idea, though. Ohio and I could make that happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonos Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Oooh, we can add plernerts to Grannus? Nice! Really, this is one of those high-quality packs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioBob Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 @Gordon Fecyk, I'm not much of a aircraft guy myself, so I haven't even considered how jet engines might perform on Tellumo. You certainly bring up some good points. If the curves don't even go beyond 1 atm (they don't need to in stock), then I can see that being a problem. We could easily write a MM cfg that extends the curves. Do you have any suggests for what the curves ought to look like? I know my rockets pretty well, but jet engines are something I'm less familiar with, so I'm open to advise. ** I think that when operating outside the range of a curve, the last known values are use. So if the curve ends at 1 atm, then the values at 1 atm are used for all pressures higher than 1 atm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxxQ Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 So, stupid question time. To install the 1.5.1 update over last night's 1.5.0 update, do I just remove the main GPP folder from Game Data, and replace it with the main GPP folder from the update? Of course, also replacing the optionals that get placed into the GPP main. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileo Posted September 7, 2017 Author Share Posted September 7, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, MaxxQ said: So, stupid question time. To install the 1.5.1 update over last night's 1.5.0 update, do I just remove the main GPP folder from Game Data, and replace it with the main GPP folder from the update? Of course, also replacing the optionals that get placed into the GPP main. Yea you can do that if you want to make it harder , or alternatively, just overwrite the GPP_OPM cfg with the new one. There are also a couple new screenshots for the loading screen manager if you are interested in that. Edited September 7, 2017 by Galileo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilph Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 16 hours ago, Gilph said: Congrats, very nicely done. I may have lucked out. Copied my old career save to the new install to test it. It seems to be OK, maybe because I only have vessels at Thalia, outside of the Gael system. What was funny was that my scanner that was orbiting Eta is now orbiting Icarus. Talk about your free trajectories... 1 hour ago, Galileo said: Update Change Log v1.5.1 Patch for OPM_Galileo to not move current orbiting vessels upon load due to flightGlobalsIndex changes. No texture changes, so GPP_Textures 3.0.0 still works fine. ---- Look! An, update without having to re-download textures! Download and Install instructions in the OP No Thanks...I won a free trip to Icarus and I'm keeping it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxxQ Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Galileo said: Yea you can do that, or alternatively, just overwrite the GPP_OPM cfg with the new one. There are also a couple new screenshots for the loading screen manager if you are interested in that. Okay, thanks. Edit: I didn't read the features of the patch very carefully.* I'm not using OPM, so this update is completely unnecessary for me. Meh. At least I'm already set if I ever do add it though. *Edit 2: All ONE of them. Edited September 7, 2017 by MaxxQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Fecyk Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 (edited) 33 minutes ago, OhioBob said: Do you have any suggests for what the curves ought to look like? I know my rockets pretty well, but jet engines are something I'm less familiar with, so I'm open to advise. I was experimenting with NASA's EngineSimU that supports specifying pressures much higher than 101.3 kPa. First I was looking to model the stock engines, but just haven't set time aside to play with it yet. Once I modeled a stock engine at Earth / Kerbin sea level, I was going to up the pressure and see what happens. At first it seems one would get a lot more thrust at the expense of having to maintain a higher chamber pressure, and thus have a lower specific impulse. You'd be drawing and exhausting a lot more air at once and burning a lot more fuel at once unless you throttled back a lot. I keep imagining Red October's Caterpillar Drive in water when thinking about flying a jet through a super thick atmosphere. For gameplay though, I'd might want to instead introduce a thrust governor that would reduce thrust and maintain specific impulse, since you'd have a lot more lift with thicker air as well. I'm no jet engineer either. At first I just wanted jet engines on Eve. Worked out the chemistry OK, which resulted in lower-but-manageable ISP, but I really should tune for pressure as well. Tellumo looks like a great place to try out actual air-breathing jets at those pressures. Edited September 7, 2017 by Gordon Fecyk Made more relevant to GPP and stock air breathers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxgurugamer Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 58 minutes ago, Gordon Fecyk said: Jet engines on high pressure Tellumo vs Gael or Kerbin? I'm looking for inspiration for tuning my Explodium engines back in the stock system on Eve. What is the overall experience with stock jet engines on Tellumo with its 5 atmospheres of pressure? The stock jets don't take atmospheric pressures beyond 101.3 kPa into consideration in their atmosphereCurve and atmCurve float curves. Has anyone adjusted the stock engines for Tellumo's high pressure atmosphere any? Or does it seem like the stock jets work well enough that they didn't need adjusting? The Nuclear Turbo Jet in Spacetux Industries Recycled parts works great at higher atmospheres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilph Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Freshmeat said: So, I run a i5-4670@3,4GHz with 8 GB ram and an ATI HD6990 with 2 GB ram. GPP brought it to its knees, which was what I kind of expected. What kind of rig are we looking at if I want to join the fun? I would go at least 16gb, which should be the cheapest thing to upgrade. I run a NVidia 960 with 2gb, and it only gets stressed on takeoffs and landings. The i5 is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxgurugamer Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 9 minutes ago, Gordon Fecyk said: since you'd have a lot more lift with thicker air as well. More lift = more drag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Fecyk Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Just now, linuxgurugamer said: More lift = more drag True enough. Both Stock and Ferram Aerospace model that part of the problem well enough, so I'm just interested in the thrust changes. Does the Nuke Turbojet have float curve values beyond one atmosphere? I'll look at the part configs and compare the float curves to the stock jets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyko Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 On 9/6/2017 at 9:49 AM, Tyko said: Thanks, but i don't have KSCSwitcher or Sigma installed. This is just a standard GPP install. The install I described above included a complete new download of KSP and I downloaded fresh copies of every mod. I included the versions of all the mods - did any of those look incorrect? I've done it twice now and scatterer is altering the sky in some way that's persistent even if I remove scatterer and relaunch..I'm not really aware of how the presence of Scatterer could be making a change that persists even when Scatterer is uninstalled - I was hoping there's be a clue in there that would help solve this. I've done the entire setup twice with the same results. I appreciate your help, but not sure how doing it a third time will fix anything? Thanks! @Galileo moving to 1.5.0 solved the problems. The sky still occasionally screws up and I have to do a scene change. Beyond that I'm happily sailing along at 2.5x Question - would you be willing to share the EPS version of your DV subway map? I'd like to run the calculations to make one for 2.5x and I'm happy to share the results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIcklett Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Why doesn't remote tech work with gael? The stations are weird so I cannot get a connection while on launch pad. Any configs for gael and remote tech? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakvi Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Ok, so the update pushed all my landed Iota objects (a couple landers, flags, debris) to Thalia O_O so some clean-up was required. Interestingly though, all the relay network around Iota remained there. Other than that, seems that the install went smoothly! Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioBob Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Tyko said: Question - would you be willing to share the EPS version of your DV subway map? I'd like to run the calculations to make one for 2.5x and I'm happy to share the results The dV subway map was made by @JadeOfMaar, so it's up to him on whether or not he wants to share it. I've already run most of the calculations for the other scales, so I've got all that data. The only thing I don't have is the launch dV for the bodies with atmospheres. For the original map the launch dV were obtained by in-game tests, and I just didn't feel like taking the time to redo all of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileo Posted September 7, 2017 Author Share Posted September 7, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, NIcklett said: Why doesn't remote tech work with gael? The stations are weird so I cannot get a connection while on launch pad. Any configs for gael and remote tech? Just tested and nothing weird to me. Works fine and got to orbit fine. The remotetech cfg is included in the GPP_configs folder Edited September 7, 2017 by Galileo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakvi Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, NIcklett said: Why doesn't remote tech work with gael? The stations are weird so I cannot get a connection while on launch pad. Any configs for gael and remote tech? You might be using SETI RemoteTech configs (they are installed by default in SETI mega-pack on CKAN): they overwrite everything back to Kerbal system. I've spent a LOT of time figuring this one out. Some suggestions: Inside GameData, search for "Remote". Ensure you don't only have one file "RemoteTech_Settings.cfg" and it resides in RemoteTech folder. Leave GPP file be (called "GPP_RemoteTech"). If you have CKAN, remove any mod related to RemoteTech which isn't RemoteTech itself. At the tracking station, check that you actually have SOME tracking stations. Check their names. If not, check on Icarus. So yeah, the bottom line is: if you don't have connection in GSC, that mean there's something overwriting GPP configs. Edited September 7, 2017 by Yakvi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAL 9000 Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 After many procrastination sessions, the expedition I launched to Tellumo has arrived! Orbital insertion successful! Macfred Gaelan has been released in a drop pod, which has deorbited. Expect landing confirmation within the hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larkvi Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 4 hours ago, OhioBob said: The starting positions of most of the planets have changed. Which ones didn't change? (Asking, as my only interplanetary craft at the moment are on their way to Tellumo.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePounds Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, larkvi said: Which ones didn't change? (Asking, as my only interplanetary craft at the moment are on their way to Tellumo.) Tellumo definitely changed. At epoch it used to have a mean anomaly of 179.9° but now it's 131.8°, so your spacecraft will likely miss it's target. Like someone pointed out just let it get to it's destination before you upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioBob Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Just now, larkvi said: Which ones didn't change? (Asking, as my only interplanetary craft at the moment are on their way to Tellumo.) I think the only ones that didn't change are Otho, Hox* and Leto. Tellumo changed by about 48 degrees. (* Hox actually did change a smidgeon only because I rounded off a previous number. Probably not game breaking, but might require a course correction to get back on target.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePounds Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 5 minutes ago, OhioBob said: I think the only ones that didn't change are Otho, Hox* and Leto. Tellumo changed by about 48 degrees. (* Hox actually did change a smidgeon only because I rounded off a previous number. Probably not game breaking, but might require a course correction to get back on target.) speaking of changes. Did Icarus atmosphere get removed? I am not seeing it any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioBob Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Just now, Three_Pounds said: speaking of changes. Did Icarus atmosphere get removed? I am not seeing it any more. Icarus never had an atmosphere. Maybe you're thinking of something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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