rkarmark

The Elkano challenge (all versions accepted!)

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On 24/12/2017 at 12:25 AM, ARS said:

I think as long as you didn't propel your rover even further in midair, it's still called rovering. Other than that, make heavier rover for low gravity world, they are less likely "going suborbital" when making jumps

No, they aren't - on an airless world, a rover leaving the ground at a given speed and angle will describe a trajectory entirely independent of its mass.

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2 hours ago, damerell said:

No, they aren't - on an airless world, a rover leaving the ground at a given speed and angle will describe a trajectory entirely independent of its mass.

Making a rover heavier slows it's speed since the stock wheel have a limit of how heavy a rover could be before it can only drive slowly. My heavy rover weighs 15 tons and it's powered by 8 rover wheels. It's top speed is around 15 m/s (yes it's very slow), but it also makes it less likely to do any jump when it crawls along the hills

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what should i REALLY do in this challenge, is it okay to use scan satelite via polar kerbiting

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17 hours ago, GRS said:

what should i REALLY do in this challenge, is it okay to use scan satelite via polar kerbiting

Scansat is okay but it will be a modded run

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On 2/4/2018 at 11:58 PM, rkarmark said:

Scansat is okay but it will be a modded run

I mean orbital survey hardware scan

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On 2/10/2018 at 7:05 AM, GRS said:

I mean orbital survey hardware scan

That is absolutely allowed. How else will you get ore concentration information?

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I have a question on rules,

If I have a waterborne craft that cannot complete a journey across land (its a submarine), could I place a land based vehicle at the landing point for the sub, transfer the crew, traverse the short distance across land to the next leg, and then transfer the crew to a waiting 'replacement' submarine on the other side? Otherwise I'll have to design a submarine with wheels that can move across land at an acceptable speed, and I've had enough trouble designing a wonder-sub that can refit and refuel on the move.

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On 30/03/2018 at 6:49 AM, Smokey the Bear said:

I have a question on rules,

If I have a waterborne craft that cannot complete a journey across land (its a submarine), could I place a land based vehicle at the landing point for the sub, transfer the crew, traverse the short distance across land to the next leg, and then transfer the crew to a waiting 'replacement' submarine on the other side? Otherwise I'll have to design a submarine with wheels that can move across land at an acceptable speed, and I've had enough trouble designing a wonder-sub that can refit and refuel on the move.

I think there can only be one circumnavigator.

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On 30/03/2018 at 4:49 AM, Smokey the Bear said:

I have a question on rules,

If I have a waterborne craft that cannot complete a journey across land (its a submarine), could I place a land based vehicle at the landing point for the sub, transfer the crew, traverse the short distance across land to the next leg, and then transfer the crew to a waiting 'replacement' submarine on the other side? Otherwise I'll have to design a submarine with wheels that can move across land at an acceptable speed, and I've had enough trouble designing a wonder-sub that can refit and refuel on the move.

See the previous version of the challenge. It includes a map and rules for water-based circumnavigations simply omitting the unavoidable land crossing.

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I have a three questions about this thread and the challenge.

1: Is this thread/challenge still maintained by someone? Or is just up to the contestant to do the challenge and report in any way they see fit and assume the right to brag?

2: Is thread only for 1.2.x versions of the game or are versions 1.3 and 1.4 also accepted?

3: I intend to use RoveMax Model XL3 rover wheels and exploit the way they turn to drive faster. If one has a rover using these wheels and one taps a and d keys while pressing w, the rover accelerates way beyond the stated motor speed of 15.5 m/s. My rovers have had "safe" cruising speeds of 50 - 70 m/s and by optimizing I have gone over 120 m/s on the KSC runway. My question is whether or not this is considered as cheating in the context of this challenge.

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35 minutes ago, Ixamus said:

1: Is this thread/challenge still maintained by someone? Or is just up to the contestant to do the challenge and report in any way they see fit and assume the right to brag?

2: Is thread only for 1.2.x versions of the game or are versions 1.3 and 1.4 also accepted?

3: I intend to use RoveMax Model XL3 rover wheels and exploit the way they turn to drive faster. If one has a rover using these wheels and one taps a and d keys while pressing w, the rover accelerates way beyond the stated motor speed of 15.5 m/s. My rovers have had "safe" cruising speeds of 50 - 70 m/s and by optimizing I have gone over 120 m/s on the KSC runway. My question is whether or not this is considered as cheating in the context of this challenge.

1. Yes, me:wink:

2. All versions of the game accepted i will update the name to clarify

3. Using exploits are against the spirit of the challenge

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25 minutes ago, rkarmark said:

3. Using exploits are against the spirit of the challenge

Understood. I will begin my Eve Elcano attempt during the next few days. I just need to rethink my rover design to fit under the rules, while still being relatively fast. 

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26 minutes ago, rkarmark said:

3. Using exploits are against the spirit of the challenge

I don't think its really an exploit.... more just taking advantage of how the game works.. (which I know is the definition of an exploit)

In any case, he still is driving the rover just at a a faster pace. It would be no different to like using an electric prop to go faster... would it?

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I believe that this is a borderline case. On the other hand this is a clear exploit and uses stock part in a way they were not meant to be used to get them to perform better than they are supposed to. Then the wheels are a stock part and their turning method is quite fundamental to what they are. I also believe than anyone who has used the wheels for anything has noticed that they accelerate when player wants to turn. Not allowing this method makes using these wheels quite problematic in the context of this challenge.

While reading the mission reports in this thread I also noticed, that at least one circumnavigator before me has used this method to be faster.

But ultimately the challenge maintainer gets to make these decisions and I do understand that this is an exploit after all.

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Just started with a stock turboprop driven catamaran/rover. This engine is the strongest of any but also sports efficiency higher than the 6 Wheesley blowers can provide themselves. The goal: circumnavigate Kerbin in roughly 24 hours, without refueling.

UzLcCxW.png

dxEcl8U.png

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I have now made some testing and driven something like 200km on Eve and I have come to a conclusion.

On 19.4.2018 at 6:02 PM, rkarmark said:

3. Using exploits are against the spirit of the challenge

I hope I'm not being rude now, but I'll have to ask, if you could re-evaluate your decision. I think allowing the use of RoveMax XL3 wheels and their acceleration by turning method, would be fair in comparison with other things that are allowed here and consistent with the former accepted circumnavigations. I think that stock turboprops and electric propellers are very similar cases and are allowed in the challenge. They are an exploit since there are no stock parts that are meant to be used that way. They are made by taking an advantage from the way physics work in this game, when driven to situations the game developers never thought of. This allows to vehicle to travel in speeds and fuel efficiency it couldn't otherwise travel. I believe that the method of acceleration by turning with huge wheels is the same thing and therefore should be allowed.

There has even been a precedent case of using the wheels this way. In the fifth page of this thread you can find Jouni's submission where he has circumnavigated Tylo using these wheels. In his mission report thread he says to have driven speed of 50 - 60 m/s which is not possible by simply pressing the "w" key all the time.

This functionality is so major in these wheels that it is actually difficult to use these wheels at all without becoming a perpetrator of this exploit.

Finally referring to the rules of this challenge.

Quote

Use of add-ons that change physics or add/modify parts in use by the craft are permitted. An add-on’s technology level must be “near term” or of “next tier” type of capabilities as compared to stock. Mods that allow the user to skip elements of the challenge or violate the spirit of flying to and circumnavigating a body are not permitted. (i.e. Slightly better/larger/stronger engines, wheels, fuel tanks, etc. are permissible. Hyperdrives, antimatter engines, wormhole generators, hyper dense or exotic fuels, etc. are not allowed.)

I know that this is not a mod I'm trying to advocate here, but I think that it's comparable. I don't think that the acceleration by turning method is comparable to "antimatter engines" or "wormhole generators" and it doesn't allow skipping any elements of the challenge. It is a rover that has to be delivered to the body being circumnavigated and it still takes 20+ hours or something to do it. It simply allows to do it significantly faster than otherwise but still within the speeds that many other have traveled during their maritime circumnavigations of Laythe or Kerbin.

I hope that you do not think that I'm being rude here. The challenge manager still has the final word on what is allowed in the context of this challenge and I do not ask twice. I simply think that it would be fair and hugely less boring if this would be allowed.

Thank you

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@Ixamus I don't think stock turboprops can be at all compared with electric propellers.Turboprops are not easy to build, not easy to tune and only become fuel efficient when gigantic -  which creates other problems like mass & drag. I do agree with your argument about electric propellers - they are an exploit because they don't consume fuel.

To give you an idea: I hauled 30k units of fuel when leaving KSC, the whole thing weighed 238t.

Edited by Azimech

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I'm chaffing at the bit here because I'm watching everyone complete their runs but I cannot continue with my Ike elcana until the landing gear fix is introduced in 1.4.3. Hopefully it won't be too long coming.

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1 hour ago, The Dunatian said:

I'm chaffing at the bit here because I'm watching everyone complete their runs but I cannot continue with my Ike elcana until the landing gear fix is introduced in 1.4.3. Hopefully it won't be too long coming.

I've chosen to drive in 1.3.1. KSP 1.4.x understands krakentech yet the GFX become garbled after a while, even more than in 1.3.1.

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5 hours ago, Azimech said:

@Ixamus I don't think stock turboprops can be at all compared with electric propellers.Turboprops are not easy to build, not easy to tune and only become fuel efficient when gigantic -  which creates other problems like mass & drag. I do agree with your argument about electric propellers - they are an exploit because they don't consume fuel.

I admit my ignorance of both of these engine types. Thanks for the clarification. Also I don't suggest that either one of these are easy to do -designs neither do I want to critique anyone for using either of these.

 

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Time for moar Elcano challenge. This time, Ike.

screenshot112.png

Crew arriving at Ike. I am doing it in my main save so the launch is long time ago.

screenshot92.png

Meanwhile, the Ike Rover woke up from its two Kerbal year hibernation. It was ordered to find a safe landing site for the lander. The rover is the same model as this one (except with atmospheric analyzer replaced by ore scanner)

https://kerbalx.com/TheFlyingKerman/Sparo-3

It is pure stock, 34 parts and about 0.814t without the crew.

 

Safe landing just besides the rover.

screenshot95.png

Flag planting, by Bob Kerman. Then the driving mission begins.

screenshot97.png

I largely followed the equator, driving west. Detouring for better terrain. The terrain of Ike is strange, that the side of mountains are often remarkably smooth, while smooth looking lowlands is often full of ridges. 

screenshot99.png

The highest point I reached on Ike is over 10000m.

screenshot101.png

On hilly terrain I could only drive at 35-45m/s. That was slow...

screenshot105.png

Close to home. About 55-65m/s was the fastest I could go...

screenshot108.png

Crossed the finishing line! Bob will then move on to Duna, where another rover is waiting...

screenshot111.png

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Having recently completed a circumnavigation of Kerbin by air, I'm deciding to try this out on Minmus.

The plan is to send a rover, then a crew that lands and transfers to the rover.

The rover completes the circumnavigation, then the crew transfers back to the lander. The lander goes back to Kerbin, leaving the rover and flag there. 

EDIT 1: I'm now home, let's try this out!

EDIT 2: Hooray, the rover is on Minmus! Let's send the crew over!

EDIT 3: I'm off! Wish me luck!

Edited by Ho Lam Kerman

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Yay I'm done with my first Elcano!

Crew: 1 (Valentina)

Time: about 2 Kerbal days, about 1 Earth day

wT2CE4E.png

And we're off!

RIEfOqf.jpg

*whistles* "La la la la la la la... Sing a happy song..."

ubxvEso.png

Ahhh... Home...

f43FVcz.png

Ahh, this brings back memories. This is where I first landed a crew on Minmus.

(Spoiler alert: Easter eggs shown)

Spoiler

6kRNaYe.png

"Mum, look at me!"

TgI8EVX.png

Another detour brings me to the landing place of the first kerbal-made object to enter Minmus's SoI. Val becomes the first kerbal to get anywhere near this thing for 10 years.

mynp8Rp.jpg

I unfortunately lost two of my spotlights. I flipped and so I wanted to quickload but I accidentally press quicksave. This always happens.

N1sAEap.png

Val completes her trip around Minmus.

-----------------

I'll go grab my badge.

Edited by Ho Lam Kerman

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15 hours ago, Ho Lam Kerman said:

Yay I'm done with my first Elcano!

This looks like a stock rover. Slow and not really drivable. Yet you managed to drive this thing around Minmus :o

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7 hours ago, TheFlyingKerman said:

This looks like a stock rover. Slow and not really drivable. Yet you managed to drive this thing around Minmus :o

Yup, that's a stock Crater Crawler, with a few modifications: I put an extra probe core and a Mechjeb module. It is slow, I usually chug along at 8-12 m/s, although I drive at 20 m/s on the flats. I use 3x timewarp, which doesn't crash my rover or the game, and Mechjeb can tolerate this.

The main reason I chose it is because it can handle this: cOBOGc1.png

--------------------

Next stop, Mun.

Edited by Ho Lam Kerman

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