UomoCapra

Development Update for Consoles!

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when will 1.4 be released just asking.

on pc

Edited by Mudkip909
added pc

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Just now, Mudkip909 said:

when will 1.4 be released just asking.

 

There's still a long road ahead of us before that (1.3.1 and the Making History Expansion), so no plans for 1.4, yet.

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making history expansion? THERES GONNA BE DLC U MEAN!?

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27 minutes ago, Mudkip909 said:

making history expansion? THERES GONNA BE DLC U MEAN!?

Yes. It's been known for a few months already:

 

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1 hour ago, Mudkip909 said:

when will 1.4 be released just asking.

on pc

Why would you ask about that on the console thread

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7 minutes ago, TheRagingIrishman said:

Why would you ask about that on the console thread

I can't help but agree with that. If you wanted to find that out, this is not the place to ask, as it is dedicated to console.

Also, @Red Iron Crown, I agree. Though I'm still particularly irritated, it's not very prudent to take out your aggression directly towards the devs, especially when they actually give you a detailed response.

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9 hours ago, UomoCapra said:

We are doing our best and working very hard to deliver console ports that are free from the issues that the past ones had, as well as including impovements to the performance and the control scheme, based on feedback received from the playerbase. We don't want to disappoint anyone by rushing a release regardless of the quality of the product itself. @technicalfool wasn't trying to be disrespectful to anyone and he was just pointing out that we'll release the console ports once we are sure that we have high quality ports that work as they are supposed to. The development is already in the last stages and soon we'll give you a solid release date. We hope you understand and we thank you for your patience.

Thank you for giving a thoughtful and reasoned response, it is much appreciated.

At no point did it ever occur to me that @technicalfool was being deliberately condescending.  As far as I was concerned, it was simply an apparent extension of SQUAD's overall inconsideration towards console users in general.  I'll let you be the judge as to which is the better conclusion to which to jump.

5 hours ago, Red Iron Crown said:

When you respond like this to communication from the developers, do you think it encourages or discourages further communication?

Are you really suggesting that the consumers of this product need to be considerate of the feelings of the producers?  If I went to the grocery store and found that their entire produce section was rotten and full of mold, should I feel obliged to buy some anyways just to make sure that I didn't offend the employees?  I bought a game from you that didn't work, why is it that you feel that I need to kowtow to your sensitivities in order to get what I paid for in the first place?

5 hours ago, UomoCapra said:

Yes. The release will be simultaneous. We've also given several details about the new control scheme (radial controls and manouver nodes adjustments), the improvements of shadows and the fix of the save file curruption issue in previous KSP Weeklies. We also stated that the new version will include update 1.2.2 and considering that the previous ones were equivalent to 1.1, there will be a sustantial amount of content new to consoles. I invite you to read the changelogs from 1.1 to 1.2.2 and everything in between.

 

Thank you for providing actual, concrete information.  Though you can't blame console users if they don't regularly pour over the details contained in the weekly updates considering how biased they are towards PC information.

Just an FYI, at this point, don't assume that anyone who has currently owned and played the console version of the game has experienced anything close to what KSP can offer.  I have played the PC version, and it is amazing, which is why everything surrounding this console port has me so upset.  Saying to a console use that they have experienced version 1.1 is an outright fabrication.  All that you have given us console users to this point is a pre-alpha experience.  In other words, nothing works, and things will be made better in the future.

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36 minutes ago, Jumba83 said:

Are you really suggesting that the consumers of this product need to be considerate of the feelings of the producers?  If I went to the grocery store and found that their entire produce section was rotten and full of mold, should I feel obliged to buy some anyways just to make sure that I didn't offend the employees?  I bought a game from you that didn't work, why is it that you feel that I need to kowtow to your sensitivities in order to get what I paid for in the first place?

First, you have bought nothing from me. Second, that is a rather large strawman you have constructed, as I am not suggesting you buy anything or not. I am suggesting that being hostile to the developers when they communicate with the community discourages further communication, nothing more than that. This should be plainly obvious to anyone with common sense. You want more/better communication with the devs? Maybe it's not such a good idea to be rude with them when they do show up here, as that actively discourages it.

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38 minutes ago, Jumba83 said:

the weekly updates considering how biased they are towards PC information.

The weeklies are about the core game regardless of platform. A year ago they were focused on the 1.2 release, which is what consoles will have when the new port is released. PC-specific details (analogous to the console-specific progress updates and screenshots) have never been discussed that I can recall.

We don't yet have a declaration from SQUAD as to whether the expansion will be available for consoles, but it would make sense for it to be, given that consoles and expansions are the newest revenue streams SQUAD has been courting. Barring some kind of change of direction on their side, the updates about the expansion will be console-relevant in the fullness of time, as well.

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58 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

First, you have bought nothing from me. Second, that is a rather large strawman you have constructed, as I am not suggesting you buy anything or not. I am suggesting that being hostile to the developers when they communicate with the community discourages further communication, nothing more than that. This should be plainly obvious to anyone with common sense. You want more/better communication with the devs? Maybe it's not such a good idea to be rude with them when they do show up here, as that actively discourages it.

You are correct in that I have bought nothing from you.  I have, however, bought something from those whom you actively represent.  From my perspective, I have been anything but rude.  I have simply conveyed my expectations as a console user.  Is it your perspective that asking for what was originally promised is considered rude?  When I bought this game on the Playstation Network over a year ago, I expected it to work.  Needless to say, it didn't.

Your implication is that I don't possess common sense.  Do you not believe that users who pay full retail price for a game should expect a game that is actually playable?  Common sense dictates that when someone pays for a game, they get that game, not a vague promise that they might get that game someday.  Is it somehow my fault that this game is broken?  SQUAD did not give me this game out of the kindness of their hearts, I bought it from them with my own hard earned money.  Since then, they have treated that purchase with utter disdain (over a year with no updates to an unplayable game).  Why should I treat them with anything else?  The onus is on them to make this right, not me.

56 minutes ago, HebaruSan said:

The weeklies are about the core game regardless of platform. A year ago they were focused on the 1.2 release, which is what consoles will have when the new port is released. PC-specific details (analogous to the console-specific progress updates and screenshots) have never been discussed that I can recall.

We don't yet have a declaration from SQUAD as to whether the expansion will be available for consoles, but it would make sense for it to be, given that consoles and expansions are the newest revenue streams SQUAD has been courting. Barring some kind of change of direction on their side, the updates about the expansion will be console-relevant in the fullness of time, as well.

Respectfully, I disagree.  The majority of the information contained in the weeklies concerns new development towards the future.  Console users are waiting for patch 1.2, something that is already well past done on the PC edition.  So far, we have received absolutely no indication that future development will ever make its way onto the console release.  There is no greater indication of this than the fact that we still haven't even gotten a working version in the first place.  It's been over a year, and they still haven't been able to provide us a stable, working game.  So far, it appears that all their effort is directed towards giving us something that actually works at long last.  Why should we be looking at anything past that?  And, even if we were, why should we expect that such updates will be available at any point in the near future given their past history on console updates?

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On 7/12/2017 at 8:14 AM, razark said:

Is anything Squad does at this point, short of releasing a complete, working, gloriously bug-free console version going to make console users happy?  Of course not.

So what remains to be said?  Nothing.

And so it goes.

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1 minute ago, Jumba83 said:

You are correct in that I have bought nothing from you.  I have, however, bought something from those whom you actively represent.

You seem to have misconstrued who I am and what I do. I do not represent Squad aside from helping moderate the forum. I am a player and customer, too.

1 minute ago, Jumba83 said:

 From my perspective, I have been anything but rude.  I have simply conveyed my expectations as a console user.  Is it your perspective that asking for what was originally promised is considered rude?  When I bought this game on the Playstation Network over a year ago, I expected it to work.  Needless to say, it didn't.

Quit attempting to put words in my mouth, I said nothing about any of that.

1 minute ago, Jumba83 said:

Your implication is that I don't possess common sense.

Nor did I say that. I said it is common sense to understand that being rude discourages people from interacting. This should be self evident.

1 minute ago, Jumba83 said:

 Do you not believe that users who pay full retail price for a game should expect a game that is actually playable?  Common sense dictates that when someone pays for a game, they get that game, not a vague promise that they might get that game someday.  Is it somehow my fault that this game is broken?  SQUAD did not give me this game out of the kindness of their hearts, I bought it from them with my own hard earned money.  Since then, they have treated that purchase with utter disdain (over a year with no updates to an unplayable game).  Why should I treat them with anything else?  The onus is on them to make this right, not me.

Wow you really showed that strawman who's boss! If I had made any of those arguments or said any of those things I would feel like you had taken me apart completely! Thankfully I didn't and I don't.

Do I think console users should have a working game? Of course I do. Do I think it's the players' fault? Of course not, no thinking person would feel that way. Do I think console players have been treated with disdain? Not particularly. I don't think Squad is any happier than the players that the update has taken as long as it has, and judging by the change of porting partners I can infer that the development process has not been as smooth as they would have liked. Disdain would be cutting their losses and abandoning it altogether.

It seems to me it doesn't really matter what or how much Squad says about the progress on the console fix, the only thing that will satisfy is a working update. From what they say they are working on it, but that doesn't put a game in players' hands yet.

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33 minutes ago, Jumba83 said:

Respectfully, I disagree.

There was no opinion in what I said; if you want to express "disagreement" with simple facts, feel free, but I don't know what you would hope to accomplish by it. There is no such thing as "PC information"; all of the work that SQUAD does and all of the information that they share about it in the weekly updates is for all platforms, Windows and Mac and Linux and Playstation and Xbox. Consoles lag behind in the timing, but that's all; there's no surer proof of it than:

33 minutes ago, Jumba83 said:

Console users are waiting for patch 1.2

Soon you'll have it, then you'll have 1.3, and then SQUAD will want to sell you the expansion. At that point, the "PC information" in the weekly updates will instantaneously and retroactively become "console information," just as last year's 1.2 updates are doing now.

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Would you guys rather they give you a date they fail to meet? I'm legit curious.
I'd prefer vagueness, honestly. They're not being condescending or insulting to you guys, they're just saying "we don't know how long it'll take to clean up Flying Tiger's mess, and we're not gonna rush it."
And it's not like there haven't been weekly updates that talk about their progress on console, either.

This may prove to be a bad example, but in January 1967 3 astronauts strapped into a Saturn IB to test the Apollo command module. It kinda was so broken that it caught on fire and killed them before they ever left the ground. NASA began a massive total inspection of the Saturn and all the various parts of the Apollo mission architecture. It took nearly 2 years before men flew on Saturn again, in October 1968. And then there were nearly 0 hiccups in the apollo program after that. 

Flying Tiger shipped a broken game, and now Squad and Blitworks are having to go over every line of code to make sure they fix every little bit of anything that they can. It's sorta different, but would you rather they rush it, and be less thorough? Making them release it faster isn't gonna mean it's magically fixed, and you could still be in the same mess all over again.

At any rate, they say they're nearly done, and they're currently doing what I guess amounts to QA testing to make sure there's nothing they missed, no curveballs or things out of the blue:

Quote

On console news, our QA team is attempting to overload the console build’s save files. They have been failing at achieving this so far, which is a good thing. It just seems to keep on trucking. Both console versions are now fully playable, but as we’ve reiterated, we are currently on a very scrupulous testing phase to ensure a true KSP game experience for console players.  

So really, being hostile towards them for offering everything but a date and sticking to "when we're sure it's not broken" isn't really exactly useful or meaningful conversation.

Edited by Lupi

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On 07/30/2017 at 8:22 PM, RW1984 said:

I sure hope they issue a sincere apology along with the new port

I've already asked this, DLC should be FREE for all those who purchased the non functioning console version and have had to wait over a year and counting to actually play the game they paid for.

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As far as I know PlayStation store is refunding money to disgruntled customers. I can't speak for Xbox as I really have no idea. Personally I enjoyed the broken version of KSP for a month plus with countless crashes, freezes and full data corruptions. And yes I do understand everyone's agrivation with the lack of a specific release date for a patch. But we won't be getting just a fix. We will be getting a much bigger game with so much more than we ever had any reason to expect. Personally I am stoked.  So to those who wanna get on this site and gripe an groan I suggest you get over it or get your money back. Moreover quit wasting the Developer time so they can focus on pleasing their Greatfull consumers and fans.

* Drops the mic and walks away.

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16 hours ago, UomoCapra said:

Yes. The release will be simultaneous. We've also given several details about the new control scheme (radial controls and manouver nodes adjustments), the improvements of shadows and the fix of the save file curruption issue in previous KSP Weeklies. We also stated that the new version will include update 1.2.2 and considering that the previous ones were equivalent to 1.1, there will be a sustantial amount of content new to consoles. I invite you to read the changelogs from 1.1 to 1.2.2 and everything in between.

 

Please supply links since a search of 1.1 to 1.2.2 change logs or any combination of those words gives no results. 

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21 minutes ago, Broke dead dogg said:

Please supply links since a search of 1.1 to 1.2.2 change logs or any combination of those words gives no results. 

Much of the stuff in the changelogs is available on the wiki's Version History article here. You'll want to be looking at the changelogs for v1.1.1, v1.1.2, v1.1.3, v1.2, v1.2.1 and v1.2.2.

Edited by technicalfool
Oh and v1.1.x

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13 hours ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Quit attempting to put words in my mouth, I said nothing about any of that.

Nor did I say that. I said it is common sense to understand that being rude discourages people from interacting. This should be self evident.

I did not bring the words "rude" and "common sense" into this discussion, you did, in response to my post.  If your intention was not to imply that I was being rude, then perhaps you shouldn't have quoted my earlier post.  Besides, you have made several references to this supposed strawman that I am building, therefore implying that I am somehow being deceptive or attempting to misrepresent the situation.  How have I done so?  I have only attempted to convey my impression of this situation.

13 hours ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Wow you really showed that strawman who's boss! If I had made any of those arguments or said any of those things I would feel like you had taken me apart completely! Thankfully I didn't and I don't.

You did, in fact, say that users should refrain from being rude to the developers.  That whole section that you quoted was an attempt to tell you exactly why, in my opinion, the users who purchased the console version of this game have every justification for being as rude as they want to be.

12 hours ago, HebaruSan said:

There was no opinion in what I said; if you want to express "disagreement" with simple facts, feel free, but I don't know what you would hope to accomplish by it. There is no such thing as "PC information"; all of the work that SQUAD does and all of the information that they share about it in the weekly updates is for all platforms, Windows and Mac and Linux and Playstation and Xbox. Consoles lag behind in the timing, but that's all; there's no surer proof of it than:

Soon you'll have it, then you'll have 1.3, and then SQUAD will want to sell you the expansion. At that point, the "PC information" in the weekly updates will instantaneously and retroactively become "console information," just as last year's 1.2 updates are doing now.

It is not a simple "fact" that SQUAD will ever deliver any updates to the console version once they finally deliver 1.2.  Please correct me if I am wrong, but I have never seen a statement as such.  My disagreement is with your assessment that this is inevitably the case.  Updating past 1.2 will mean that they will again have to contract the work out to a developer like Blitworks.  This will be a significant expenditure for them, meaning that they will either have to eat the cost or charge for the update, which is not something they have ever done in the past.  It would be far less involved for them to simply get 1.2 out the door and then forget about console updates altogether.

12 hours ago, Lupi said:

Would you guys rather they give you a date they fail to meet? I'm legit curious.
I'd prefer vagueness, honestly. They're not being condescending or insulting to you guys, they're just saying "we don't know how long it'll take to clean up Flying Tiger's mess, and we're not gonna rush it."
And it's not like there haven't been weekly updates that talk about their progress on console, either.

This may prove to be a bad example, but in January 1967 3 astronauts strapped into a Saturn IB to test the Apollo command module. It kinda was so broken that it caught on fire and killed them before they ever left the ground. NASA began a massive total inspection of the Saturn and all the various parts of the Apollo mission architecture. It took nearly 2 years before men flew on Saturn again, in October 1968. And then there were nearly 0 hiccups in the apollo program after that. 

Flying Tiger shipped a broken game, and now Squad and Blitworks are having to go over every line of code to make sure they fix every little bit of anything that they can. It's sorta different, but would you rather they rush it, and be less thorough? Making them release it faster isn't gonna mean it's magically fixed, and you could still be in the same mess all over again.

At any rate, they say they're nearly done, and they're currently doing what I guess amounts to QA testing to make sure there's nothing they missed, no curveballs or things out of the blue:

So really, being hostile towards them for offering everything but a date and sticking to "when we're sure it's not broken" isn't really exactly useful or meaningful conversation.

Honestly, I want a game, not a date.  Right now, I'd want even a broken, buggy game that I knew was still under development.  I have very little faith in the SQUAD QA process, they have already failed on multiple occasions.  First with the console port in general, then again with the Xbox update that didn't solve anything.  I would love to be able to play the game and see the progress for myself, even if it is still in the pre-alpha stage, and then be able to give them feedback.  The reason for this is that I fully expect SQUAD to wipe their hands clean of this whole situation as soon as Blitworks makes their final delivery.  Right now, I'd imagine there to be only a handful of people actually doing the playtesting on the new version.  I'd hope that they'll be able to find all of the major game breaking bugs (not that there's any past proof of them being able to do so) and will get them corrected by the time of the release.  Then, once thousands of people start playing it, do you really expect that they won't find any additional issues at all?  Keeping the latest version behind closed doors prevents these issues from being discovered when they'd be the easiest to fix.

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3 minutes ago, Jumba83 said:

I did not bring the words "rude" and "common sense" into this discussion, you did, in response to my post.  If your intention was not to imply that I was being rude, then perhaps you shouldn't have quoted my earlier post.  Besides, you have made several references to this supposed strawman that I am building, therefore implying that I am somehow being deceptive or attempting to misrepresent the situation.  How have I done so?  I have only attempted to convey my impression of this situation.

Your strawman was constructed here, when you replied to my post responding to another person by asking a question and painted it as if I were saying that I think people should be obligated to buy rotten produce. Which is not what I said or implied.

3 minutes ago, Jumba83 said:

You did, in fact, say that users should refrain from being rude to the developers.  That whole section that you quoted was an attempt to tell you exactly why, in my opinion, the users who purchased the console version of this game have every justification for being as rude as they want to be.

Be rude if you like, I have not said that you can't. I am saying that it is counterproductive to the goal of better/more communication with the people to which you seem to want to be rude. I guess you need to decide which is more important to you: Venting angst at developers or having a meaningful interchange with them. It doesn't matter how justified you feel the rudeness is, the fact of the matter is that it discourages further communication.

For what it's worth this is not a phenomenon unique to the console part of the KSP community. In the early days of KSP the developers were frequent participants here on the forum, kicking around ideas and discussing feedback with players. As the community grew that changed, as people started taking every offhand comment as a gold plated promise, being insulting and non-constructive in feedback; generally just making the forum an environment that did not encourage the devs to speak at all. So they mostly stopped, and now instead of banter and an inside look at how the game is developed we get carefully phrased developer notes that have probably passed through PR and legal departments before going public. To some degree I think this effect is inevitable as a community grows beyond a certain size, as the audience grows the Greater Internet <curse>wad Theory* becomes more and more relevant.

Can't believe I have to straight-facedly argue that being rude is not a good thing.

 

*This is one of the times when I wish I could link adult content here, but look for a Penny Arcade comic entitled "Green Blackboards (And Other Anomalies)" and you'll find what I'm talking about. John Gabriel's observation that "normal person + anonymity + audience = antisocial behavior" is as true today as when he posited it thirteen years ago, sadly.

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6 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Your strawman was constructed here, when you replied to my post responding to another person by asking a question and painted it as if I were saying that I think people should be obligated to buy rotten produce. Which is not what I said or implied.

Perhaps it wasn't the best analogy on my part, but in no was was I attempting to be deceptive as the strawman term implies.  

6 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Be rude if you like, I have not said that you can't. I am saying that it is counterproductive to the goal of better/more communication with the people to which you seem to want to be rude. I guess you need to decide which is more important to you: Venting angst at developers or having a meaningful interchange with them. It doesn't matter how justified you feel the rudeness is, the fact of the matter is that it discourages further communication.

For what it's worth this is not a phenomenon unique to the console part of the KSP community. In the early days of KSP the developers were frequent participants here on the forum, kicking around ideas and discussing feedback with players. As the community grew that changed, as people started taking every offhand comment as a gold plated promise, being insulting and non-constructive in feedback; generally just making the forum an environment that did not encourage the devs to speak at all. So they mostly stopped, and now instead of banter and an inside look at how the game is developed we get carefully phrased developer notes that have probably passed through PR and legal departments before going public. To some degree I think this effect is inevitable as a community grows beyond a certain size, as the audience grows the Greater Internet <curse>wad Theory* becomes more and more relevant.

Can't believe I have to straight-facedly argue that being rude is not a good thing.

 

*This is one of the times when I wish I could link adult content here, but look for a Penny Arcade comic entitled "Green Blackboards (And Other Anomalies)" and you'll find what I'm talking about. John Gabriel's observation that "normal person + anonymity + audience = antisocial behavior" is as true today as when he posited it thirteen years ago, sadly.

Now you're the one putting words into my mouth.  I never once even attempted to make the argument that being rude is a good thing.  Do you consider any of my statements to have been rude towards anyone?  As far as I know, I have not been insulting towards anyone.  At no point have I used anything even close to foul language, as you now have.  Simply disagreeing with someone is not rude.  Arguing a point with someone is not rude.  Venting frustrations is not rude.  I called out a SQUAD staff member for making a flippant remark because in my opinion it was indeed a flippant remark regardless of its original intentions.  Is it rude to point out how someone else's statements might be considered offensive?

My statement was that people have every justification for being as rude as they want to be, not that they should actively do so.  I wasn't around in the early days of KSP, so I never got to experience the forum in the way you describe it.  I came here after the game was released on consoles, so that I could get more information on how progress was coming along on a fix for the many issues in the console release.  All that I have ever heard from the developers is some form of "we are working on it."  When boiled down to their essence, virtually all of their posts say this and nothing more.  I'm not in a situation where I am overly concerned with the prospect that making my frustrations known to these developers will somehow discourage them from any future interaction, considering how little they currently interact.  Like most other console users here, we can't lose what we don't have in the first place.

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11 minutes ago, Jumba83 said:

At no point have I used anything even close to foul language, as you now have.

Point to the foul language in my post, I'll wait.

11 minutes ago, Jumba83 said:

My statement was that people have every justification for being as rude as they want to be, not that they should actively do so.

On this point we are at last in agreement. This is where we started talking past each other I think, as my original post that you seemed to find so objectionable merely asked whether the poster thought this course of action would lead to more developer communication or less. I made no judgement about whether being rude was justified or not, just that it is not productive.

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@Jumba83Dude, you really need to stop. All this hostility and fighting pointed at both the mods AND the devs is counterproductive. You expect Squad to give you a fixed game, but at the same time you're all but crucifying them. Ever hear the saying "don't bite the hand that feeds you"? 

Trust me, I'm still quite livid at the state of the console version, but I've learned long ago that there's NOTHING I or you can do to fix it. All we can do is sit here, and hope that Squad makes right with the console community.

@Red Iron CrownWhy even fight with this guy? It's not even worth the energy. Sure, I've gotten into disputes with mods, yourself included, but it doesn't help. 

As "Global Moderator", shouldn't you be more upstanding than this guy? He's obviously never going to be satiated, so don't give him the pleasure of upsetting you.

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5 minutes ago, LegendaryAce said:

Why even fight with this guy? It's not even worth the energy. Sure, I've gotten into disputes with mods, yourself included, but it doesn't help. 

Being a mod has nothing to do with it. I am a player and community member first, and I think the point I am trying to make about tone of posts is an important one.

5 minutes ago, LegendaryAce said:

As "Global Moderator", shouldn't you be more upstanding than this guy? He's obviously never going to be satiated, so don't give him the pleasure of upsetting you.

I am not upset by this at all, it would take far more than that. Not sure how my posts here are not "upstanding" in your eyes, but at any rate I'm not going to avoid sharing my thoughts because I help moderate the forum.

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Guys, guys. Let's chill. Squad doesn't give us deadlines, we know that much. Asking for it is not likely to change it, be it nicely or rudely.

Also, I'd like to point out that we moderators are primarily players and community members. We also have opinions on matters, moderators or not.

 

Ninja'd by Red, but the point stands.

@Red Iron Crown wanna take off the Moderation Mantle just for this thread, and let us keep an eye on things?

Edited by monstah

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