Esquire42

[1.2.2] Active Ablation v1.0.2 - Electric Powered Lifting Surface Ablation

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Ever get tired of your spaceplanes burning up? Wish you could use your massive electric reserves to ablate that heat?

Now you can!

With Active Ablation, all your wings are Electric Charge-powered ablation surfaces too!

Active Ablation can be found on SpaceDock here or GitHub here

Required Mods:

ModuleManager found here

Installation

A. CKAN

B. Paste the "ActiveAblation" folder into your "GameData" folder

Future Plans

  • Add the ability to toggle ablation, instead of being constantly on (next update)
  • Add water ablation, a la X-43, both open and closed loop
  • Add heat tiles
  • Create custom module, instead of repurposing stock one

Known Issues

  • Electric Charge consumption is probably unbalanced. Suggestions welcome.
  • Electric Charge consumption always on. Will be fixed in the next patch.
  • Mod adds active ablation to parts with ablation already on them. Will be fixed in the next patch.

Changelog

Spoiler

1.0.2 -  Actually works now, shout out to @captinjoehenry

1.0.1 - font change in .cfg files, just in case

1.0 - Initial release

 Support

  1. Anything about CKAN: Ask the CKAN people
  2. Anything else: Brief description and/or open an issue on GitHub

License

Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License

Acknowledgements

@sarbian - ModuleManager. The heart of KSP

@captinjoehenry - Original idea/testing/QA

 

Edited by Esquire42
GitHub support

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Huzzah!  Finally its working!  This is great for my spaceplanes.  Or rather for hypersonic planes.  Still glad to have it!

@Esquire42Ok actually it is still not working :/  Or at least it is not showing an ablator module on any of the wings I have including stock wings.

Edited by captinjoehenry

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@Esquire42Ah ha I have solved the issue!  All you needed to do was use the stock ModuleAblator instead of the custom one and it works!  Here is the code:

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface]]:Final
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAblator
		ablativeResource = ElectricCharge
		lossExp = -750
		lossConst = 0.1
		pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
		reentryConductivity = 0.01
		ablationTempThresh = 500
		
	}
}

Also for really high speed in lower atmosphere with a large space plane you need many many 1000s of EC per second.  You'll want a nuclear reactor or 10 to power that cooling system!

Also worth noting around 2000m/s at about 10,000m on kerbal this will not help you.  This is an edge case for sure but that is the limit of the ablator :P

Edited by captinjoehenry

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Nice mod you just made there ! , actually i was kinda trying to add an integrated ablative heatshield to the mk1 pod (Obviously because stock shields are ugly!) and it didn't work at as planned . what i did was that i just added ModuleAblator from the 1.25 heatshield and added a Ablator resource to the pod. it looked ok (ablator Resource was there and it was depleting) however it seemed like it didn't dissipate any heat away and my pod just heated up as if there wasn't a heatshield in first place . is that reentryConductivity or something ?

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Out of curiosity, is there any real world analogue of this? The shuttle used heat dissipating ceramic tiles, and they were a major factor in it's downfall. 

Edited by Errol

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Just now, Errol said:

Out of curiosity, is there any real world analogue of this?

Not exactly the same but the general idea was used by the X-43A which used water cooling along the leading edge during flight above Mach  3.  And there are some studies for an actively cooled reentry heat shield but none were ever made due to a variety of reasons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_X-43

From wikipedia about reentry

Actively cooled[edit]

Various advanced reusable spacecraft and hypersonic aircraft designs have been proposed to employ heat shields made from temperature-resistant metal alloys that incorporated a refrigerant or cryogenic fuel circulating through them. Such a TPS concept was proposed for the X-30 National Aerospace Plane (NASP). The NASP was supposed to have been a scramjet powered hypersonic aircraft, but failed in development.

In the early 1960s various TPS systems were proposed to use water or other cooling liquid sprayed into the shock layer, or passed through channels in the heat shield. Advantages included the possibility of more all-metal designs which would be cheaper to develop, be more rugged, and eliminate the need for classified technology. The disadvantages are increased weight and complexity, and lower reliability. The concept has never been flown, but a similar technology (the plug nozzle[39]) did undergo extensive ground testing.

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That is nothing short of awesome. I remember the pictures of the X1 after it's maiden flight with the intense pitting and melting on the leading edges. Cool stuff!

See what I did there??

 

 

I'll let myself out..

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13 hours ago, captinjoehenry said:

@Esquire42Ah ha I have solved the issue!  All you needed to do was use the stock ModuleAblator instead of the custom one and it works!  Here is the code:


@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface]]:Final
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleAblator
		ablativeResource = ElectricCharge
		lossExp = -750
		lossConst = 0.1
		pyrolysisLossFactor = 6000
		reentryConductivity = 0.01
		ablationTempThresh = 500
		
	}
}

Also for really high speed in lower atmosphere with a large space plane you need many many 1000s of EC per second.  You'll want a nuclear reactor or 10 to power that cooling system!

Also worth noting around 2000m/s at about 10,000m on kerbal this will not help you.  This is an edge case for sure but that is the limit of the ablator :P

A-ha! That's what it was. Updating this thing now

Release: 1.0.2

Changelog:

- Actually works now, shout out to @captinjoehenry!

Edited by Esquire42
tagging

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5 hours ago, captinjoehenry said:

Not exactly the same but the general idea was used by the X-43A which used water cooling along the leading edge during flight above Mach  3.  And there are some studies for an actively cooled reentry heat shield but none were ever made due to a variety of reasons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_X-43

From wikipedia about reentry

Actively cooled[edit]

Various advanced reusable spacecraft and hypersonic aircraft designs have been proposed to employ heat shields made from temperature-resistant metal alloys that incorporated a refrigerant or cryogenic fuel circulating through them. Such a TPS concept was proposed for the X-30 National Aerospace Plane (NASP). The NASP was supposed to have been a scramjet powered hypersonic aircraft, but failed in development.

In the early 1960s various TPS systems were proposed to use water or other cooling liquid sprayed into the shock layer, or passed through channels in the heat shield. Advantages included the possibility of more all-metal designs which would be cheaper to develop, be more rugged, and eliminate the need for classified technology. The disadvantages are increased weight and complexity, and lower reliability. The concept has never been flown, but a similar technology (the plug nozzle[39]) did undergo extensive ground testing.

Hmmm... Some myths of 90th years emerges from the memory depths...

Spoiler

Concept recearches in hypersonic aerodynamics with active control of airflow, some info about: http://www.e-reading.club/chapter.php/86954/8/Pervushin_-_Bitva_za_zvezdy-2._Kosmicheskoe_protivostoyanie_(chast'_II).html

Imo, more honest active ablation technology must to consume of some liquid fuel as ablator, and to increace of mass for parts with active ablation enabled (maybe +20%).

But anyway this high-tech deserves of last level in tech tree, even after rapiers.

Edited by Aerospacer
some added

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55 minutes ago, Aerospacer said:

Hmmm... Some myths of 90th years emerges from the memory depths...

  Hide contents

Concept recearches in hypersonic aerodynamics with active control of airflow, some info about: http://www.e-reading.club/chapter.php/86954/8/Pervushin_-_Bitva_za_zvezdy-2._Kosmicheskoe_protivostoyanie_(chast'_II).html

Imo, more honest active ablation technology must to consume of some liquid fuel as ablator, and to increace of mass for parts with active ablation enabled (maybe +20%).

But anyway this high-tech deserves of last level in tech tree, even after rapiers.

Tech tree integration is definitely planned. I'm going to look to see how MechJeb does it, and probably add CTT support as well. I'd have to look into multiple consumption resources for ablation, in addition to mass increases. One way to do it might be to add space for AblationLiquid or something and have various generators for when ablation is on and off. With ablation on it'd consume EC and LiquidFuel and produce heavy AblationLiquid (with the ablation itself taking electric charge; two separate modules). 

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9 minutes ago, Esquire42 said:

Tech tree integration is definitely planned. I'm going to look to see how MechJeb does it, and probably add CTT support as well. I'd have to look into multiple consumption resources for ablation, in addition to mass increases. One way to do it might be to add space for AblationLiquid or something and have various generators for when ablation is on and off. With ablation on it'd consume EC and LiquidFuel and produce heavy AblationLiquid (with the ablation itself taking electric charge; two separate modules). 

Hmm that sounds really nifty.  So when you switch on active ablation you first generate Ablation Liquid and then do you use up ablation liquid and EC or just EC during reentry?  Also it would be good to keep a pure EC method if possible as with loads of mods you end up with no liquid fuel on board but crap tons of EC generation so a pure EC ablator would work great for that situation.  It should of course need a lot of EC.  

Basicly 3 or so versions:

1. just water or some liquid used for ablation

2. water or some liquid + EC

3. just EC

That seems like it would cover all the use cases as you could use option 1 when you have low EC production but can take the mass penalty option 2 would give a lower mass penalty but need a fair bit of EC during ablation and option 3 would still weight more than no ablation system but be by far the lightest but very energy intensive and maybe have cost increase as well from option 1 to 3.

Also I just want to say I am really glad to see this idea of mine shaping up into something approaching a full blown mod!  It is very nice to see my desire to use EC for heat production grow into what this is shaping up as!

Edited by captinjoehenry

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3 minutes ago, captinjoehenry said:

Hmm that sounds really nifty.  So when you switch on active ablation you first generate Ablation Liquid and then do you use up ablation liquid and EC or just EC during reentry?  Also it would be good to keep a pure EC method if possible as with loads of mods you end up with no liquid fuel on board but crap tons of EC generation so a pure EC ablator would work great for that situation.  It should of course need a lot of EC.  

Basicly 3 or so versions:

1. just water or some liquid used for ablation

2. water or some liquid + EC

3. just EC

That seems like it would cover all the use cases as you could use option 1 when you have low EC production but can take the mass penalty option 2 would give a lower mass penalty but need a fair bit of EC during ablation and option 3 would still weight more than no ablation system but be by far the lightest but very energy intensive and maybe have cost increase as well from option 1 to 3.

It might be good to have two different configs: the one we have now with toggle enabled, and then a switchable one. 

My idea with the AblationLiquid is basically what you're saying.

We could also have a .cfg that uses LH2 instead of LF when CryoTanks or whatever is installed. Nertea's mod packs have really set the bar for optioning consumables.

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That sounds pretty good.  If possible it would be nice to have both of them so you have the low tech active cooling system with an ablator fluid and a high tech option for pure EC and the ability to swap between both options.  I am not sure if it is possible but it would definitely be nice so you could have a cheaper option or a more expensive option that uses loads of EC.

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I don't like the idea of consuming a cooling liquid. I know that in machining and such they use cooling fluid once and discard it, but it is also a cleaning fluid, and becomes contaminated with chips. They also have access to mains water. 

In automotive applications the coolant fluid is recycled, in fact I think most applications re-use fluid. I like the idea of a weight increase to represent fluid use. How about a tweakable slider in the editor, and then the cooling efficiency is based on amount of coolant fluid available. This way we can still have the weight of the fluid. IF you are thinking about CTT integration, perhaps make it water? That way you could fill a part you build on laythe with EL. 

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Just now, Errol said:

I don't like the idea of consuming a cooling liquid. I know that in machining and such they use cooling fluid once and discard it, but it is also a cleaning fluid, and becomes contaminated with chips. They also have access to mains water. 

In automotive applications the coolant fluid is recycled, in fact I think most applications re-use fluid. I like the idea of a weight increase to represent fluid use. How about a tweakable slider in the editor, and then the cooling efficiency is based on amount of coolant fluid available. This way we can still have the weight of the fluid. IF you are thinking about CTT integration, perhaps make it water? That way you could fill a part you build on laythe with EL. 

Yeah that is definitely something that should be there.  No need to consume it you just need to have added mass to represent the cooling fluid.  So be it some types of active cooling does just spray it out but most of them reuse the cooling fluid.  Typically fuel to keep things cool.  

So there should be:

closed loop liquid cooling: medium expense, high mass, good for as long as you have fuel, medium EC use, medium tech

open loop liquid cooling: low expense. medium mass, uses up a cooling substance: fuel or water or something, low / no EC use, low tech

EC Cooling: high expense, low mass, uses EC, High / very high EC use, high tech

No cooling: Normal

Potentially your choice of liquid cooling could effect how effective the cooling is but that might be rather complex to implement.

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2 hours ago, Errol said:

I don't like the idea of consuming a cooling liquid. I know that in machining and such they use cooling fluid once and discard it, but it is also a cleaning fluid, and becomes contaminated with chips. They also have access to mains water. 

In automotive applications the coolant fluid is recycled, in fact I think most applications re-use fluid. I like the idea of a weight increase to represent fluid use. How about a tweakable slider in the editor, and then the cooling efficiency is based on amount of coolant fluid available. This way we can still have the weight of the fluid. IF you are thinking about CTT integration, perhaps make it water? That way you could fill a part you build on laythe with EL. 

Excess weight would be a pain in the *** to model accurately. You could do it with separate part models, but that's not something I want to pursue at the moment. Gets a bit out of hand

2 hours ago, captinjoehenry said:

Yeah that is definitely something that should be there.  No need to consume it you just need to have added mass to represent the cooling fluid.  So be it some types of active cooling does just spray it out but most of them reuse the cooling fluid.  Typically fuel to keep things cool.  

So there should be:

closed loop liquid cooling: medium expense, high mass, good for as long as you have fuel, medium EC use, medium tech

open loop liquid cooling: low expense. medium mass, uses up a cooling substance: fuel or water or something, low / no EC use, low tech

EC Cooling: high expense, low mass, uses EC, High / very high EC use, high tech

No cooling: Normal

Potentially your choice of liquid cooling could effect how effective the cooling is but that might be rather complex to implement.

I like the tiered ideas. I'd have to figure a way to combine part upgrades with B9 part switch though, most likely.

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Just now, Esquire42 said:

Excess weight would be a pain in the *** to model accurately. You could do it with separate part models, but that's not something I want to pursue at the moment. Gets a bit out of hand

I like the tiered ideas. I'd have to figure a way to combine part upgrades with B9 part switch though, most likely.

For the extra mass just MM patch in an additional tank with a ballast mass.  That'll be the mass penalty and you could make it have a negative cost and increase the cost of the part.  Or just trust the user to play fair and not ditch the penalty mass.

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40 minutes ago, captinjoehenry said:

For the extra mass just MM patch in an additional tank with a ballast mass.  That'll be the mass penalty and you could make it have a negative cost and increase the cost of the part.  Or just trust the user to play fair and not ditch the penalty mass.

Sort of my original idea behind AblatorLiquid. That way we can tweak the mass.

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I really don't like the name ablatorliquid. Ablation is a specific chemical reaction. Coolant is what we've talked about so far. 

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16 hours ago, Errol said:

I really don't like the name ablatorliquid. Ablation is a specific chemical reaction. Coolant is what we've talked about so far. 

This is a competition between pedantry and pragmatism. Technically this mod should be called "Active Cooling", but technically the game should use N-body physics.

Coolant also already exists as a CRP resource (or at least as a Firesplitter resource) and so for the purposes of this mod it would be easier to define a custom resource.

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1 hour ago, Errol said:

ABC

Active Balanced Cooling?

 

4 hours ago, captinjoehenry said:

It could be Active Ablation Components

Rebranding early might be a good idea. I do like the ABC moniker.

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