Struggling to get to Orbit [1.2.2, Space Station]

[Guest]

I'm probably a pain to the KSP Community but I've got another problem, so lets just get this over with. I'll be providing pictures, don't panic xD

 

Pictures of the Payload:

Spoiler

(Side View of the Space Station)

\

(Bottom of the Space Station)

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Probe Controlled Circulurisation Booster:

Spoiler

(Top of the Probe Controlled Circlurisation Booster)

(Side View of the Probe Controlled Circulurisation Booster)

 

Ascent Stage:

Spoiler

 

Craft Download:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/et6vr9ij4kwnzmp/The Hitchhiker Orbital Station.craft?dl=0

 

When I try to ascend, it starts pitching over in the wrong direction. I want to pitch over towards 90 Degrees on the Navball but my ship wants to do anything but that, all TWR and Delta-V Costs are provided in the screenshots above. (Ignore the staging, it is a mistake xD) So any help would be appreciated!

 

Ascent Profile GIF (To show you what I mean by how it is pitching in the wrong direction):

Spoiler

http://gph.is/2hOop8Z

Thanks KSP Forums (Again) xD

 

EDIT: Please tell me how I can show you the image of the GIF. I'd like help with that, so if anyone can, much appreciated xD

Edited December 14, 2016 by Guest

[diomedea]

Seems like your station is too wide for the ascent stage, so it makes more drag then what can be controlled by fins or other means.

Larger/more fins at the rear, and something to reduce drag at the top (e.g., enclose the whole station in fairings?) could be enough. If not, upload your vessel to allow others here to try other "tricks".

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, diomedea said:

Seems like your station is too wide for the ascent stage, so it makes more drag then what can be controlled by fins or other means.

Larger/more fins at the rear, and something to reduce drag at the top (e.g., enclose the whole station in fairings?) could be enough. If not, upload your vessel to allow others here to try other "tricks".

 

I will upload the craft, and I have enclosed the whole station in the fairing which is barely visible in the Ascent Stage. I shall upload it for the KSP Community to use but what would be easiest for you guys? (e.g. what website?) And it is very silm, it's just the fairing is rather wide.

[diomedea]

Dropbox works well for any file

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, diomedea said:

Dropbox works well for any file

How do I make sure my craft file will be in the proper format?

[steuben]

Just upload it as raw text.

One other suggestion is to forget about the classic gravity turn. Just fly straight up to 50 km and turn right.

 

[Guest]

Just now, steuben said:

Just upload it as raw text.

One other suggestion is to forget about the classic gravity turn. Just fly straight up to 50 km and turn right.

 

Well, I might try it, but I take it you have seen the GIF? (I'm trying to get it to turn one way, but it refuses xD

[diomedea]

9 minutes ago, awfulcraftdesigns said:

How do I make sure my craft file will be in the proper format?

When you save the vessel in the editor, a file is created by that name with .craft as extension (it's actually a textfile internally). of course you'll find that file within the saves/<yourgame>/ships/VAB (being this vessel created within the VAB). Just upload that *.craft file, and provide a link here.

[Guest]

Just now, diomedea said:

When you save the vessel in the editor, a file is created by that name with .craft as extension (it's actually a textfile internally). of course you'll find that file within the saves/<yourgame>/ships/VAB (being this vessel created within the VAB). Just upload that *.craft file, and provide a link here.

Done btw, have fun trying to get that thing to turn 90 Degress (Also, please upload images of any edits you made...I'd like to see them xD

[diomedea]

I've now tried your vessel, and it flies fine without any modification (). Had no problem controlling the ascent. Can see from your "ascent profile GIF" there seems to be no active control while the vessel is in flight (roll/yaw/pitch indicators stay neutral) but can't see why, seems like nobody is at the helm. You may see I use SAS (though not strictly required, but helps) and just a tiny bit of control, to keep the vessel aimed correctly.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, diomedea said:

I've now tried your vessel, and it flies fine without any modification (). Had no problem controlling the ascent. Can see from your "ascent profile GIF" there seems to be no active control while the vessel is in flight (roll/yaw/pitch indicators stay neutral) but can't see why, seems like nobody is at the helm. You may see I use SAS (though not strictly required, but helps) and just a tiny bit of control, to keep the vessel aimed correctly.

Very odd if I must say...and I had no SAS on because I wanted to see which way it naturally tilted

Edited December 14, 2016 by Guest

[diomedea]

Ok, you may wish to try if controls work before take-off. Pressing AD, WS, QE keys should let the indicators deflect fully to one or the other side.

If they don't means there's an issue and would better investigate, but it may require to see your settings.cfg (from the root KSP folder) and output_log.txt (please refer here for more info on that file).

If they do, you should be able to make the vessel steer to the correct 90° heading. Don't expect the vessel to naturally tilt to that heading itself, quite the contrary, as Kerbin rotates eastward means vessels will be moving contrary (westward) while ascending, and even the very small angle of its prograde direction (westward from pure vertical) will be enough to start making the vessel rotate (due to the Center of Mass being above its Center of Pressure, where drag is applied, so there is a moment caused by gravity once the vessel starts tilting; which is correct and helping if aimed eastward to make the gravity turn, but goes opposite when westward).

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, diomedea said:

Ok, you may wish to try if controls work before take-off. Pressing AD, WS, QE keys should let the indicators deflect fully to one or the other side.

If they don't means there's an issue and would better investigate, but it may require to see your settings.cfg (from the root KSP folder) and output_log.txt (please refer here for more info on that file).

If they do, you should be able to make the vessel steer to the correct 90° heading. Don't expect the vessel to naturally tilt to that heading itself, quite the contrary, as Kerbin rotates eastward means vessels will be moving contrary (westward) while ascending, and even the very small angle of its prograde direction (westward from pure vertical) will be enough to start making the vessel rotate (due to the Center of Mass being above its Center of Pressure, where drag is applied, so there is a moment caused by gravity once the vessel starts tilting; which is correct and helping if aimed eastward to make the gravity turn, but goes opposite when westward).

...I think that will say enough from my reaction.

[steuben]

Another design suggestion would be to shorten your booster. Add a couple of side fuel tanks that stage away when empty. You can always add a couple of swivels to the bottom of the tanks to keep your TWR up if needed.

[GoSlash27]

I had no problem with it either, although I did have to hand fly it through the gravity turn. With the smallish fins and large shroud, it was what I'd call "astable". It didn't want to turn without help, but didn't want to tumble either.
 I tapered the throttle as I went so that the thrust approximated 2sin(pitch). This is my normal procedure.

The second stage had a lot more fuel than was necessary. I ditched it once Pe was established so it'd reenter and finished circ on RCS.

Best,
-Slashy

Edited December 17, 2016 by GoSlash27

[Guest]

1 minute ago, GoSlash27 said:

I had no problem with it either, although I did have to hand fly it through the gravity turn. With the smallish fins and large shroud, it was what I'd call "astable". It didn't want to turn without help, but didn't want to tumble either.

The second stage had a lot more fuel than was necessary. I ditched it once Pe was established so it'd reenter and finished circ on RCS.

Best,
-Slashy

Well thanks for the review of the craft? I guess xD I mean, how would you improve the booster stage just out of interest? Also, the second stage is de-orbitable and sticking a decoupler and a heat shield will make it recoverable...(Just I prefer it to be destroyed) 2nd thing is, I used the booster stage to circularise it since I like speed over being patient...xD

[GoSlash27]

Honestly, I thought it was pretty good as-is. I'd have to run it through my spreadsheet to come up with a suggestion. My design would have lighter 1st and 2nd stages and bigger fins.

Best,
-Slashy

[Guest]

Just now, GoSlash27 said:

Honestly, I thought it was pretty good as-is. I'd have to run it through my spreadsheet to come up with a suggestion. My design would have lighter 1st and 2nd stages and bigger fins.

Best,
-Slashy

Hmm, tell me how that goes Slashy, and there is a reason I have my username as awfulcraftdesigns...xD

 

Best Wishes,

-Crafty

[GoSlash27]

I would've kept the 2nd stage as-is and used the mainsail with a single Jumbo 64 tank. Bigger fins on the back with no control surfaces.

If I was feeling extra-cheap, I would use 3 Kickbacks with active fins. That would've knocked about $10,000 off of the price tag but would make it more of a PITA to fly.

Best,

-Slashy

Edited December 17, 2016 by GoSlash27

[Guest]

Just now, GoSlash27 said:

I would've kept the 2nd stage as-is and used the mainsail with a single Jumbo 64 tank. Bigger fins on the back with no control surfaces.

Best,

-Slashy

Well, fairly nice design, but personally I like my style of booster, no offense xD. Although I'm tempted to send something up alongside the RCS Tug, but I'm not sure what since I'd like to make some smaller craft attached to the bigger craft if that makes sense? Thanks if you can help me out in PM Slashy...

Best,

-Crafty

[GoSlash27]

No offense taken. You asked me what I would do differently and that's it. Nobody said you have to do it my way

Best,
-Slashy

[Guest]

Just now, GoSlash27 said:

No offense taken. You asked me what I would do differently and that's it. Nobody said you have to do it my way

Best,
-Slashy

xD