allista

[1.7] Global Construction

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1 hour ago, madindehead said:

It should work absolutely fine in 1.7.3. Just because a mod hasn't been updated for a game version doesn't mean that it doesn't work in that version. This is especially true for part packs. This was built for 1.7 I think - as I understand it mods tend to break when Squad changes something major with the base game or how CFG files are formatted. 

 It helps to have a clean install of KSP for testing mods (loads quickly if you only have a few basic mods in there). If it works you can test it with your main game. 

@FredMSloniker current version does work with 1.7.3. The next one has a major new feature and is stuck in QA with one hard-to-debug issue. But you can try it out with nightbuilds stored on Mega (the link is in the thread a few pages back).

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Posted (edited)

Is there any way to change construction times and amount of required resources?

 

Edit: Thanks for the answer, guys!

Edited by Gariba
Reply for answer, avoid flooding the thread

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48 minutes ago, Gariba said:

Is there any way to change construction times and amount of required resources?

There is: you can create

GameData/GroundConstruction/GroundConstruction.user file with corresponding settings that will override the configuration from

GameData/GroundConstruction/Plugins/PluginData/GroundConstruction/GroundConstruction.glob

Setting names are self-explanatory; you will want to change these

AssemblyResource
{
    name = SpecializedParts
    WorkPerMass = 15
    EnergyPerMass = 1000
    ComplexityWork = 17
    MaxRecycleRatio = 0.3
}


ConstructionResource
{
    name = MaterialKits
    WorkPerMass = 10
    EnergyPerMass = 10000
    ComplexityWork = 13
    MaxRecycleRatio = 0.5
}

ComplexityFactor = 1E-04
FinalizationWorkPerMass = 0.5

Note that there's no direct way to influence the amount of resources you need, as they're in any case ton per ton; what you can do is to change the fraction of the part mass that is build using MK versus SP with ComplexityFactor.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Gariba said:

Is there any way to change construction times and amount of required resources?

Ninja'd by allista.

Required resourced - I don't think so.  This wouldn't make sense, IMHO.  Any component requires a certain collection of parts with a fixed mass and there isn't much you can do unless you swap the component for something more efficient, or change physics :cool:.

Construction Times - Increasing the number and level of the engineers in the Workshop and Assembly Line has an effect.  From the first post (OP) in this topic:

Quote

A deployed Kit can be processed by a nearby workshop with kerbals, but there are some limitations:

  1. The workshop should be at most 300m away.
  2. The kerbals that will be working on the Kit should be inside the Workshop, not in other parts of the same vessel.
  3. These kerbals should be engineers. Scientists or pilots don't count.
  4. The skill level and number of workers do count: a 5-star engineer works literally as much as five 1-star ones. And five 5-star engineers perform spontaneous miracles.
  5. ....

You could create a test sandbox game, with only the GC requirements and Hyperedit, and test it out to see what the exact effects are.

So, unless you fool around with the config files...

Edited by Brigadier
Removed blank lines. Added ninja'd comment.

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when building in orbit and choosing to dock from DIY kit does the original docking port the kit docked to disappear? 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, halx said:

when building in orbit and choosing to dock from DIY kit does the original docking port the kit docked to disappear? 

No. So you can actually build something with a corresponding docking port and it will be docked port-to-port, so you can udock it later.
Look here: https://youtu.be/hwE37IuI8No?t=1070

 

Edited by allista

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Posted (edited)

I was afraid to try it on 1.7.3 since CKAN said it was incompatible. I'll give it a go. Thanks!

e: I told CKAN to allow installation of any 1.7 mods, but when I try to install Global Construction, it gives me the error "GroundConstruction 2.4.1.0.1 depends on GroundConstruction-Core, which is not compatible with the currently installed version of KSP". This despite the max KSP version for both being the same. What am I doing wrong?

e2: it works if I also allow 1.6 mods; the culprit appears to be a dependency on the Community Resource Pack, which only has a 1.6.9 version. Ideas?

Edited by FredMSloniker

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Avoiding a third edit: it seems to be working so far! Question, though: the OP says I can eventually build kits themselves off-world. How do I do that?

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2 hours ago, FredMSloniker said:

Avoiding a third edit: it seems to be working so far! Question, though: the OP says I can eventually build kits themselves off-world. How do I do that?

For that you need an Assembly Line and a source of Specialized Parts. The former comes in two variants -- orbital and ground based. The later is just the plane ISRU (in vanilla GC).
Watch the video with detailed explanations here: https://youtu.be/1PFg_s-RwqU

 

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Let me see if I can put this together. (I apologize for pestering with questions, but I couldn't find an online source for the answers.) To set up a self-sufficient construction yard with my current set of mods, I need to:

  • Have at least one drill. The vessel with the drill must have a container for Ore.
  • Have at least one ISRU. The vessel with the ISRU must have a container for Ore, as well as containers for the things it can make out of Ore: Fuel, Oxidizer, Monopropellant, and Material Kits.
  • Have at least one Ground Assembly Line. It can create Specialized Parts from... something and Machinery from Specialized Parts. It has its own storage.
  • Optional, but recommended: have some sort of large container for storing resources. The vessels still need at least some storage capacity, but it just has to be enough to get the resource on the board.
  • Have at least one Workshop, ideally a Mobile Workshop. (Does this need containers?)
  • Have at least one Engineer, ideally a bunch of them.
  • Have power and thermal needs satisfied and hook stuff together to transfer materials (am I gonna want to use KAS hoses for this, or does your mod handle this?)

Then, to build a vessel offworld, I need to:

  • Design a Part Kit containing the vessel. Save it as a vessel or subassembly.
  • Have a Ground Assembly Line build the Part Kit. It would be helpful for the GAL to be mobile, as it sort of poops the Part Kit out the back, though a kerbal can, according to the video, drag it into place if necessary.
  • Have an Engineer deploy the Part Kit.
  • Have a Workshop process the Part Kit.
  • Have an Engineer unbox the Part Kit.
  • Transfer resources like Fuel and Oxidizer into the vessel.
  • Pop champagne.

I'm sure I've missed a few things. The things I particularly wonder about are: does the GAL make the Specialized Parts out of nothing but electricity (I didn't see it consuming anything else when I tested it, though it might have been using trace amounts of Material Kits), and why don't I need, say, radioactives to build an RTG off-world (which is good, because I don't see how to gather them either)? Is it because I don't have whatever mod actually activates certain resources, so your mod is just using what it can get from stock?

 

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Found solution for issue with exploding DYI containers on the ground... not sure if same work for space ones but... mooved ground assembly line with winches so it lay's perfectly horisontal.. from every can exploding on creation to none yet. gravity sucks but yay for the fix

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11 hours ago, FredMSloniker said:

Have at least one Ground Assembly Line. It can create Specialized Parts from... something and Machinery from Specialized Parts. It has its own storage.

From Material Kits, but the energy requirement is large, so you don't see the process in normal time. And Machinery is not used, but is required for the converter to work.

Spoiler

        ConvertByMass = true
        INPUT_RESOURCE
        {
            ResourceName = MaterialKits
            Ratio = 0.01
        }
        INPUT_RESOURCE
        {
            ResourceName = ElectricCharge
            Ratio = 1.5
        }
        REQUIRED_RESOURCE
        {
            ResourceName = Machinery
            Ratio = 95
        }
        OUTPUT_RESOURCE
        {
            ResourceName = SpecializedParts
            Ratio = 0.007
            DumpExcess = false
        }

 

 

11 hours ago, FredMSloniker said:

Optional, but recommended: have some sort of large container for storing resources. The vessels still need at least some storage capacity, but it just has to be enough to get the resource on the board.

Naturally, I recommend using Configurable Containers :)

11 hours ago, FredMSloniker said:

Have at least one Workshop, ideally a Mobile Workshop. (Does this need containers?)

It has some capacity for Material Kits, but not that much. So you probably would want additional storage.

11 hours ago, FredMSloniker said:

Have at least one Engineer, ideally a bunch of them.

A bunch of them, and skilled ones too; otherwise construction would take forever.

11 hours ago, FredMSloniker said:

(am I gonna want to use KAS hoses for this, or does your mod handle this?)

Final transfer from your workshop to the not-yet-launched construct is done by GC. Everything else: either MKS logistics or KIS+KAS.

11 hours ago, FredMSloniker said:

Design a Part Kit containing the vessel. Save it as a vessel or subassembly.

No, you only need to make the ship or subassembly in editor, not the kit itself. Then you select it (or a single part) from Assembly Line interface and it becomes the kit inside it. Don't do the container-in-container thing without solid reason :)

11 hours ago, FredMSloniker said:

It would be helpful for the GAL to be mobile, as it sort of poops the Part Kit out the back

The kits themselves are intended to be transportable. They're light (compared to what is build from them) and have the docking port on the top. And with KIS/KAS you can move them, given enough kerbals around.

11 hours ago, FredMSloniker said:
  • Have an Engineer deploy the Part Kit.
  • Have a Workshop process the Part Kit.
  • Have an Engineer unbox the Part Kit.

All this could be done from the workshop window.

11 hours ago, FredMSloniker said:

Transfer resources like Fuel and Oxidizer into the vessel.

It's easier to transfer resources and crew before you unbox the ship from the kit. Otherwise you would have to build some access ways for kerbals and connect it with KAS to the base to fuel up.

11 hours ago, FredMSloniker said:

why don't I need, say, radioactives to build an RTG off-world

Because RTG doesn't store or use any resources at all (in game, that is). But for third-party nuclear plants and such you would have to get the radioactive isotopes for them to work; which is not always possible, as not all the mods that add such parts provide the means for refueling them. So you actually can't make the colony completely, fully, absolutely independent from Kerbin. That's life :cool:

 

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Do I need KAS to attach the lines and stuff to various parts to actually build on the ground ? 

I've got the mobile workshop on the ground crammed full of engineers and a kit nearby with the component parts for the craft I require to build . 

That's as far as I've got so far ?

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9 minutes ago, Puggonaut said:

Do I need KAS to attach the lines and stuff to various parts to actually build on the ground ? 

I've got the mobile workshop on the ground crammed full of engineers and a kit nearby with the component parts for the craft I require to build . 

That's as far as I've got so far ?

Then you just need to make sure you have the MaterialKits to complete the kit in a place where the Engineers can get to them.  You don't need KAS or KIS.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, mackie g said:

Found solution for issue with exploding DYI containers on the ground... not sure if same work for space ones but... mooved ground assembly line with winches so it lay's perfectly horisontal.. from every can exploding on creation to none yet. gravity sucks but yay for the fix

My issue could be impacted by this. I've been able to consistently build empty kits, but anytime I put anything in a kit, it explodes on spawn. I wonder if the mass of the kit could affect things. My assembly line isn't perfectly level. Mun has a slight slope (about 0.5%) at my base site.

Not sure how I can get this to be perfectly horizontal.

I've got a new issue I'm trying to figure out with the whole game freezing when a kit is about to be finalized. I built an empty kit and moved it into position. And whenever the assembly line finishes it's work on the kit the whole game freezes. Nothing in the logs at all. I'm going to try latest build from mega tonight to see if the previous beta build I was using is causing it.

Edited by beeble42
Added new issue

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2 hours ago, beeble42 said:

My issue could be impacted by this. I've been able to consistently build empty kits, but anytime I put anything in a kit, it explodes on spawn. I wonder if the mass of the kit could affect things. My assembly line isn't perfectly level. Mun has a slight slope (about 0.5%) at my base site.

Not sure how I can get this to be perfectly horizontal.

I've got a new issue I'm trying to figure out with the whole game freezing when a kit is about to be finalized. I built an empty kit and moved it into position. And whenever the assembly line finishes it's work on the kit the whole game freezes. Nothing in the logs at all. I'm going to try latest build from mega tonight to see if the previous beta build I was using is causing it.

@mackie g could you try to reproduce this in stock game (with MM+GC, of course) with stock parts? I wasn't able to so far...

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4 hours ago, beeble42 said:

I've got a new issue I'm trying to figure out with the whole game freezing when a kit is about to be finalized. I built an empty kit and moved it into position. And whenever the assembly line finishes it's work on the kit the whole game freezes. Nothing in the logs at all. I'm going to try latest build from mega tonight to see if the previous beta build I was using is causing it.

Found the cause of my new issue. I paused the assembly line before the kit was completed and tried numerous things and then resumed only to have it freeze. One thing worked. I stopped the assembly line so that the kit moved back to the queue. But there was already one of the same thing in the queue. It seemed like when I started filling the empty kit with my vessel, it didn't move the vessel out of the queue. The double up caused the completion process to crash the whole game. Once stopped, both instances appeared in the queue side by side. I deleted one (red x icon) and restarted the remaining one and it completed successfully. No idea on exactly when this second instance appeared or what I did to get it there.

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I have what is very likely a dumb noob question, I have docked an Orbital Assembly Line to my station in orbit, but when I try to create an empty kit it says I must close the assembly area first. And I can't figure out how. I get no right-click context menu on the assembly area piece and there is no control I see on the Assembly Line to close it either. 

 

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2 hours ago, vossiewulf said:

I have what is very likely a dumb noob question, I have docked an Orbital Assembly Line to my station in orbit, but when I try to create an empty kit it says I must close the assembly area first. And I can't figure out how. I get no right-click context menu on the assembly area piece and there is no control I see on the Assembly Line to close it either. 

 

I agree. It would make sense to have "Close" and "Open" buttons on the assembly space itself, but it's only in the assembly line's "workshop window".

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8 hours ago, DeW said:

I agree. It would make sense to have "Close" and "Open" buttons on the assembly space itself, but it's only in the assembly line's "workshop window".

You mean the Close button next to the "Create Empty Kit" button? I tried that also, it didn't seem to do anything. Let me try again.

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On 8/3/2019 at 1:44 AM, Raptor22 said:

I'm not sure if this has been reported already, however it appears that Ground/Global Construction is entirely incompatible with OSE workshop - with OSE taking the hit. When both are loaded, OSE does not show up in any form, whatsoever. The tab for it in the settings menu disappears, all of the workshops and recyclers become useless and cannot be interacted with.

I've been wanting to use both mods for quite some time, as Ground Construction is good for producing entire vessels in situ, whereas OSE is more attuned to producing individual parts in large quantities (while GC is technically capable of this, the process is much longer and much more cumbersome than OSE - fabricating a DIY kit, deploying it, constructing it and launching it, only for a single part is quite time consuming, especially when you need dozens of individual parts, such as when building colonies with WBI Pathfinder).


Edit to Original Post: On a hunch, I ran several tests, removing and adding files and launching the game to see what would happen. Rather than re-hashing it completely, I'll give you my post from the OSE thread:

Hopefully you (@allista) can get in contact with @linuxgurugamer, who's currently maintaining OSE, and see if there's some way to work out a patch. If there's any way that I can help out by providing logs and the like, I'd be more than happy to lend a hand in whatever way I can.

@allista I spent some time on this because it seemed to be impacting the OSEWorkshop.  I haven't yet been able to replicate it, I asked @Raptor22 to send me a save file if/when it happens again.

If you have any ideas, I'd be happy to listen

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10 hours ago, DeW said:

I agree. It would make sense to have "Close" and "Open" buttons on the assembly space itself, but it's only in the assembly line's "workshop window".

No, the Close button in the Workshop UI is doing nothing. Any ideas? I was watching the console, didn't see any errors or anything logged at all for Construction, but I can provide the log if necessary.

 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, vossiewulf said:

No, the Close button in the Workshop UI is doing nothing. Any ideas? I was watching the console, didn't see any errors or anything logged at all for Construction, but I can provide the log if necessary.

That's the right button. It's just broken in your case. My GC setup is not working too, but for other reasons. On one vessel with big container/kit KSP locks up on loading attempt. On the other one I have two kits that are not showing up in either workshop window. I'm cleaning up my contracts while waiting for current source code release or an update to GC.

Edited by DeW

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2 hours ago, DeW said:

That's the right button. It's just broken in your case. My GC setup is not working too, but for other reasons. On one vessel with big container/kit KPS locks up on loading attempt. On the other one I have two kits that are not showing up in either workshop window. I'm cleaning up my contracts while waiting for current source code release or an update to GC.

Sigh, hope that's not the case and there's something I can figure out, the entire purpose of building that giant space station was to build everything needed from here in orbit.

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11 hours ago, vossiewulf said:

Sigh, hope that's not the case and there's something I can figure out, the entire purpose of building that giant space station was to build everything needed from here in orbit.

output_log.txt (or Player.log on linux/mac) would help

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