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Ultimate Steve

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On 7/28/2018 at 5:02 AM, Kernel Kraken said:

How much bigger than him are you? That also influences what you should do if adults do the usual thing and say something like "It sounds like a simple problem, I bed you could solve it yourself". If you're huge then tackle him.

And then risk a detention? I don't think so. I always talk to people first to resolve issues, and only resort to more physical methods if they attack me first, or if they are threatening my safety and wellbeing.

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53 minutes ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

And then risk a detention? I don't think so. I always talk to people first to resolve issues, and only resort to more physical methods if they attack me first, or if they are threatening my safety and wellbeing.

Your safety and wellbeing are much more confident in their security than my own.

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6 hours ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

And then risk a detention? I don't think so. I always talk to people first to resolve issues, and only resort to more physical methods if they attack me first, or if they are threatening my safety and wellbeing.

I HIGHLY Agree.

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7 hours ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

And then risk a detention? I don't think so. I always talk to people first to resolve issues, and only resort to more physical methods if they attack me first, or if they are threatening my safety and wellbeing.

Well, he did attack you first now, didn't he?

I'm just being realistic here, but I think getting physical is going to be more effective than just complaining. If you do get threatened with detention you can call self-defense, since you already tried to solve the situation verbally twice.

If you let this guy pick on you without retaliation he's going to keep on doing it for as long as he wants to, unless you let him know he can't.

Edited by Guest
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9 hours ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

And then risk a detention? I don't think so. I always talk to people first to resolve issues, and only resort to more physical methods if they attack me first, or if they are threatening my safety and wellbeing.

 

1 hour ago, Aperture Science said:

Well, he did attack you first now, didn't he?

I'm just being realistic here, but I think getting physical is going to be more effective than just complaining. If you do get threatened with detention you can call self-defense, since you already tried to solve the situation verbally twice.

If you let this guy pick on you without retaliation he's going to keep on doing it for as long as he wants to, unless you let him know he can't.

Tell a teacher!

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Physical force is only very rarely used as one would think. Its all well and good discussing when violence is justified, but on the ground, it rarely works out that way. You dont get time to think and you are under pressure, you dont make the decisions you think you would, or should. This usually come out in the form of hurting yourself, hurting the other guy not at all or way too much.

Best policy is not to think you would ever resort to physical methods, if it ever becomes *really* necessary, it will happen automatically.

 

And trust me, fighting someone never makes them back off. In fact it is contradictory. Someone hurts person A so person A hurts them back because hurting them is a deterrent? Didnt deter person A did it?

Violence begets Violence.

Its all well and good calling "self defence" (by the way, school is not a court of law, they dont have to abide by those rules) but it wont heal bruises or reattach your retina. Or his. (Hers? It happens)

If you are physically attacked, make it known. If someone beats you up, its not "snitching", what loyalty do you owe them?

Theres a reason why "telling" is frowned upon by a certain sort, its because thats the last thing they want. 

Do the last thing they want.

 

The very highest pinnacle of martial arts is "the fight of no fight" master it and you will never come to harm. If that means being attacked and not getting physical revenge, it still means less risk of serious injury to yourself. Suprise surprise, the best/right/most honourable/most manly course of action is not always the easiest or most satisfying nor does it always make you look like a badmamma.

And if you defend yourself and accidentally put his eye out YOU are liable.

 

Of course Im not suggesting you stand there and act like a punching bag, but you've got legs and a voice and your arms are there if you really need them.

Edited by p1t1o
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10 hours ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

And then risk a detention? I don't think so. I always talk to people first to resolve issues, and only resort to more physical methods if they attack me first, or if they are threatening my safety and wellbeing.

You did say that the kid both kicked you to the floor and punched you pretty hard. Sounds like him attacking you first. Definitely tell an adult before acting out though.

Edited by Kernel Kraken
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5 hours ago, Kernel Kraken said:

Definitely tell an adult before acting out though.

Acting out? 

7 hours ago, The Minmus Derp said:

 

Tell a teacher!

I have, but it's really hard tracking the kid down because he's just wearing a hoodie. We can only see his eyes, and my 18 second clip is just of him staring at me, walking over to me, and attempting to grab my phone and delete it. I know that he's in year 6 or 7 because he was wearing sports pants after school (you can't do that in the older grades, we all get changed at the end of the lesson). So I know he's younger than me, but that's about it. Pretty much my claim was: "This kid attacked me in the library after school. He was in either grade 6 or 7, and was wearing the HPE hoodie done all the way up to only show his eyes". Not really having any evidence as  to who they are, so it's difficult.

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3 hours ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

Acting out? 

I have, but it's really hard tracking the kid down because he's just wearing a hoodie. We can only see his eyes, and my 18 second clip is just of him staring at me, walking over to me, and attempting to grab my phone and delete it. I know that he's in year 6 or 7 because he was wearing sports pants after school (you can't do that in the older grades, we all get changed at the end of the lesson). So I know he's younger than me, but that's about it. Pretty much my claim was: "This kid attacked me in the library after school. He was in either grade 6 or 7, and was wearing the HPE hoodie done all the way up to only show his eyes". Not really having any evidence as  to who they are, so it's difficult.

Have a really tiny camera. OR pull his hoodie off.

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4 hours ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

Acting out? 

 

I keep forgetting to change dialect when I'm online. Before trying to solve the problem yourself if teachers cannot solve a problem.

Shoes might be an identifying feature. Did you get that?

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20 minutes ago, Kernel Kraken said:

I keep forgetting to change dialect when I'm online. Before trying to solve the problem yourself if teachers cannot solve a problem.

Shoes might be an identifying feature. Did you get that?

So I'm supposed to look for a kid with those shoes, out of 1,300+ other students. Like a needle in a haystack (that's the first time I've used an expression before).

36 minutes ago, The Minmus Derp said:

Have a really tiny camera. OR pull his hoodie off.

I have tried to pull the hoodie off, and as I said previously, the kid's pretty strong (as he kicked me to the ground and caused bruises) 

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13 hours ago, p1t1o said:

who's paying for this wall of text

Not necessarily. In school, at least, two people becoming friends after getting involved in a fight wasn't really uncommon.

It's not a court of law, but if someone does get their "eye put out" (this guy is still in school, unless one of them decides to deliberately aim for the eyes it's unlikely to happen) it's legal self defense as long as you were attacked first and responded with corresponding proportional force.

It would be great if this situation could be solved verbally instead of physically, honestly, but in practice the odds are heavily against that happening, since the aggressor hasn't been even identified, is actively avoiding so, and has already gone physical while making his intentions clear ("I'm your worst nightmare", christ the cringe).

I hope this gets sorted out as soon as possible, preferably without bruises, but if I was in that situation I'd take matters into my own hands if it happened again. Of course, though, I'm not him, so our way of thinking could be the exact opposite.

Edited by Guest
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23 hours ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

And then risk a detention? I don't think so. I always talk to people first to resolve issues, and only resort to more physical methods if they attack me first, or if they are threatening my safety and wellbeing.

If you prefer to be beaten, it's your call. But I would suggest another line of action. Self preservation is a ability you must master sooner or later, however - and I not talking about fighting back (yet), but to avoid being beaten at first place.

This kid acted with "criminal intent" - he knows he's wrong, as he avoided being recognized. He choses you as victim, and there's a reason for that: predators always prey on the weakest first. He measured you, and concluded that you are a "safe prey". Honestly? He was not wrong.

The very best line of action is ceasing to be an easy prey. How? It's up to you.

My first suggestion is look for support from your parents. They are your first line of defense, as you are not an adult yet.

In the mean time, learn how to kick your opponent in the balls - strongly and without remorse.

Edited by Lisias
whops. typo!
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On 7/27/2018 at 1:49 AM, The_Cat_In_Space said:

Ok, this one is REALLY CREEPY. So yesterday I was finishing some maths homework in the library at school, as I normally do most afternoons. About 5 minutes later, some kid walked in, wearing a hoodie. He had it done up tightly that only his eyes were showing, and he just walked over to me. Then, he grabbed my maths stuff and threw it all on the floor. I was like "Why'd you do that?", and I got no response. Then he just walked away. About two minute later, I saw him staring at me from a distance. I went up to him, and asked him who he was. He just said "Your worst nightmare". By this point I was getting tired of him, and tried to pull his hoodie off to unmask him. For a little kid, he was actually pretty strong, and kicked me in the stomach, as I fell to the floor. I then walked away and went back to my maths homework.

Once again, he was standing there, just staring at me. I got my phone out, and tried to take a picture or a video of him. He then grabbed my phone, and threw it on the floor (luckily I have a protective case so my phone suffered no damage). He then said "Leave this place", and I was like "No, you can f--- off, I'm trying to do my homework" He then said "You'll suffer for your ignorance, fool". By this point, I just couldn't help but laugh. That stopped when he hit me in the face, and I now have a large bruise on my left cheek (really hurts too). I managed to get a short 18 second video of him, before he grabbed my phone again (I saved the video, so it's all good). Then he said that my actions will lead to suffering, and with that, he just walked away. 

I am now worried, as I've done nothing to provoke this. He just came up to me and threw my maths stuff around. I don't even know him. Thoughts?

He sounds like one of those idiots who go around trying to be cool and act superior to everyone else. Sometimes things go a bit too far (like in your case)

They're also annoyingly common....

Most likely he's targeting you simply because you were alone and in a relatively isolated area, so I doubt the problem should persist in a consistent manner, as he'll probably move on to someone else, if only to get a different or more dramatic reaction from the....victim.

Trying to talk things out with people like this doesn't always work, since the person tends to be completely deluded and you often can't find much common ground. If you try to talk with him, don't try to act like or be his friend. It's more effective to focus solely on them as a student and talk to them about the consequences of what they're doing. (E.g, "Are you planning to be a hired thug or something because this charade of yours won't give you much practice if you want to have a high-paying career.")

Saying that sort of thing tends to require some degree of eloquence though, which usually goes out the window if you're nervous.

IMHO, there's no issue with using some violence if nothing else works. That sounds a bit depraved but we're talking about self-defense........Americans are allowed to shoot home intruders who threaten you, and have it listed as manslaughter (Not that I'm saying you should shoot him; it's just a comparison :D ). If you're just going to defend yourself so that you can either escape or incapacitate him (gently) then you're doing nothing wrong.

3 hours ago, Lisias said:

In the mean time, learn how to kick your opponent in the balls - strongly and without remorse.

I can personally testify that this really only works if you actually do it with a lot of force :D

Otherwise you'll just end up annoying them

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3 minutes ago, Earthlinger said:

.I can personally testify that this really only works if you actually do it with a lot of force 

Unfortunately, I can testify that it works! :sticktongue:

8 minutes ago, Earthlinger said:

 incapacitate him (gently) 

So... Kick him in the balls strongly, ruthlessly and gently? :P

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4 hours ago, Lisias said:

Unfortunately, I can testify that it works! :sticktongue:

......if you aim right and do it with moderate force, yes. If you're flinching while attacking and do some weak leg spasm thing then you'll just be worse off.

4 hours ago, Lisias said:

So... Kick him in the balls strongly, ruthlessly and gently? :P

'Incapacitate' doesn't apply exclusively to that sort of thing :D I was trying to say that there shouldn't be an excessive amount of force involved. If you fight back, don't proceed to do more harm than was originally being dealt to you. Get the assailant on the floor, but don't continue to kick him, etc, until he's unconscious or something

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3 hours ago, Earthlinger said:

I was trying to say that there shouldn't be an excessive amount of force involved. If you fight back, don't proceed to do more harm than was originally being dealt to you. Get the assailant on the floor, but don't continue to kick him, etc, until he's unconscious or something

I got some self defense training once, due things that doesn't worth being mentioned.

What I was told is that once you decide that you need to stop the aggression, your first, main and only concerning is to stop the aggression, no matter what. You should put the guy down on the first blow, no matter how, not matter the consequences. And then run, run as your life would be in danger (sometimes, it will).

If you can't or don't want to cope with such consequences, don't fight back: acquiesce to the agressor and pray for the best - usually it's less worse than the consequences of doing a half baked defense (as our colleague ended up seeing by himself).

Justice and fairness are something to be applied by jurists on a court. Here, on RL, all that matters is to stop the aggressions - the current one, and also eventual future ones (prevention). Predators don't have a sense of justice - they would not be predators if they had.

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1 hour ago, Lisias said:

Predators don't have a sense of justice - they would not be predators if they had.

Yes.

Spoiler

cutest-kittens-ever-6.jpg

 

17 hours ago, Kernel Kraken said:

Shoes might be an identifying feature. Did you get that?

Spoiler

Sholay.JPG (Sholay movie)

 

Edited by kerbiloid
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14 hours ago, Lisias said:

In the mean time, learn how to kick your opponent in the balls - strongly and without remorse.

However effective, (at least I believe) there should be some chivalry, obviously hes not putting life in danger, not yet at least (he would have a knife), and being kicked in the balls is probably the worst thing you can really do pain wise. Kicking out the opponents knees would do the same thing, and not like, ensure they never reproduce. If its a life or death scenario, sure, but hes not going to do anything of the sort in full view of staff.  

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40 minutes ago, RoadRunnerAerospace said:

However effective, (at least I believe) there should be some chivalry [snip]

No. Never. Under no circumstances.

This is not a sport, this is not a tourney. We are not knights, this is not a joust. This is real life, where the adversary/enemy/criminal/whatever are not bounded by any rules except the ones that are enforced by force (redundant, not?).

Remember: if the other guy would be bounded by rules, you would not be in the need to defend yourself at first place.

The response must be quick, ruthless and the most painful and consequential you can manage to accomplish *and* live with the consequences (because, yeah, you are bounded by rules). You don't need to avoid only this aggression. You need to make the guy regret trying the stunt at first place - otherwise, he will do it again, and will be better prepared.

That kid would be a criminal if he had enough age. I suggest to do not forget this.

Edited by Lisias
better phrasing
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On 7/31/2018 at 10:38 AM, The_Cat_In_Space said:

And then risk a detention? I don't think so. I always talk to people first to resolve issues, and only resort to more physical methods if they attack me first, or if they are threatening my safety and wellbeing. 

He is clearly a deluded child. He attacked you today, tomorrow he would attack someone who is not as considerate as you. He will be in serious trouble that day.

As an elder, you should 'guide' him. His 'hoodie' seems to be important to him, take it off. Grab the collar of his shirt and shake him up. Twist his arm, gently, so that you only cause minimal pain. (you twist his arm too much, and a bruise might form, and you could be implicated).Remind him that he is not that special, and outside the school premises, it would be open season for him. The vaguer the threat, the better the impact on his psyche.

Please don't think I am a psycho :DThis is routine where I come from. 1.3 billion people fighting it out everyday, I would lose if I ain't tough and calculatingly aggressive. I would be put down if I hesitate to put down any and all opposition.

1 hour ago, kerbiloid said:

 (Sholay movie)

And Oi Oi Oi Oi Oi Oi Oi Have you watched this movie?? If yes, you are my best friend! If no, then please watch it, and I will make you my best friend! :D

Edited by Sorabh
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1 minute ago, Sorabh said:

As an elder, you should 'guide' him. His 'hoodie' seems to be important to him, take it off. Grab the collar of his shirt and shake him up. Twist his arm, gently, so that you only cause minimal pain. (you twist his arm too much, and a bruise might form, and you could be implicated).Remind him that he is not that special, and outside the school premises, it would be open season for him.

He tried, he was beaten, that kid knows how to fight: got kicked on the stomach. :/ This is already on the next level.

 

ed

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1 minute ago, Lisias said:

He tried, he was beaten, that kid knows how to fight: got kicked on the stomach.

Oh Dang it! And @The_Cat_In_Space sounds like a gentle person, he would not be up to mentally or emotionally hurt that kid either.

@The_Cat_In_Space, if you want to let a bully trample all over you, you are free to do so. But if you have even the slightest degree of self preservation, I would suggest that you give it back to the kid in kind.

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43 minutes ago, Lisias said:

 

The response must be quick, ruthless and the most painful and consequential you can manage to accomplish *and* live with the consequences (because, yeah, you are bounded by rules). You don't need to avoid only this aggression. You need to make the guy regret trying the stunt at first place - otherwise, he will do it again, and will be better prepared.

so you're saying taking a broom (?) to him is fine, or a bat

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