[1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[Wiseman]

20 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

In the short term?  Nothing.  Other than parts going Legacy.  In the long term, a config will not be bundled (but likely available as an optional download, and if you kept the old one around it will still work).  But there will no longer be EL parts in MKS, just GC parts (and GC will be included with the download).

No.  You only push to PL when the vessel is focused.

Oh, I definitely misunderstood that. If that's the case, how do people set up autonomous mining bases, and such? I'm working on setting up all of the various resource chains, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around how to make the logistics work such that the whole set of chains can run in the background. Is that even possible? Do people just include a ton of storage and jump between various vessels on a daily basis?

[RoverDude]

People visit them periodically.  And this does not need to be daily, as PL has no limit. 

[Wiseman]

I see! Looks like I'll need to redesign things a bit - my question about visiting was because I designed my first driller to have a very small storage, since I figured it would then push to PL more frequently. Large storage with less frequent pushes makes more sense given how it actually works. Thanks!

[RoverDude]

As long as you have enough storage to support 6 hours of production (the default catch-up chunk for stock) you will be fine.

[Terwin]

3 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

As long as you have enough storage to support 6 hours of production (the default catch-up chunk for stock) you will be fine.

Wouldn't you want 12 hours of production storage as it keeps 50% when pushing to Planetary storage?

[shuttle18]

is this compatible with Kerbalism in anyway shape or form.

Sorry if this has been asked before.

[sh1pman]

14 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

As long as you have enough storage to support 6 hours of production (the default catch-up chunk for stock) you will be fine.

Let's say that I have enough storage for 6 hours of production. If I visit this vessel once in a month, will I get a monthly amount of produced resource put into the planetary storage?

[RoverDude]

Probably 12 hours as noted above if you start with stuff half-full... but yes.  It will put the excess in PS.

[tsaven]

1 hour ago, shuttle18 said:

is this compatible with Kerbalism in anyway shape or form.

Sorry if this has been asked before.

No, they are not compatible at all due to technical differences in the way resources are handled.

[RoverDude]

1 hour ago, shuttle18 said:

is this compatible with Kerbalism in anyway shape or form.

Sorry if this has been asked before.

And to be more specific.

MKS leverages (extensively) the stock resource system and conversion system.  Probably moreso than any other mod out there given I wrote the stock stuff, and know all of the levers and dials on it   Kerbalsim, last I checked, completely overrides the stock functionality.  To do the whole background processing bit, some pieces are cut out.  Unfortunately, these are pieces that core MKS processed depend on, so stuff gets broken.

[shuttle18]

24 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

And to be more specific.

MKS leverages (extensively) the stock resource system and conversion system.  Probably moreso than any other mod out there given I wrote the stock stuff, and know all of the levers and dials on it   Kerbalsim, last I checked, completely overrides the stock functionality.  To do the whole background processing bit, some pieces are cut out.  Unfortunately, these are pieces that core MKS processed depend on, so stuff gets broken.

Dang, Would you Recommend I just use USI instead, I mean I like kerbalism. But IDK what I should use for my Career game i'm setting up right now.

[goldenpsp]

28 minutes ago, shuttle18 said:

Dang, Would you Recommend I just use USI instead, I mean I like kerbalism. But IDK what I should use for my Career game i'm setting up right now.

Well all of the USI mods are pretty much designed to work together so it is a pretty nice fit.

[RoverDude]

What @goldenpsp said.

If MKS is a part of your career, then USI-LS is the best bet to go with - you're going to get the best interop and the best experience.

 

Oh yeah...  a new release is up, too

 

0.50.15 - 2017.02.04
------------------

• Bundled the 'Ground Construction' mod as the standard off-world construction mod for USI.
• For users of EL, Technicians and Mechanics now have the ExConstructionSkill.
• You can no longer scrap EVA Kerbals...  (Thanks jd284!)
• New nodes on the Tundra modules and KSPedia entries (Thanks dboi88!)
• Added an antenna to the Salamander (Thanks voicey99!)
• Updated the Karibou to use CCK (Thanks DStaal)
• You can now toggle local logistics and planetary logistics separately on warehouses
• A new line of Tundra ISM's have been introduced.  These use the 4.75m form factor and are equivalent to the Ranger ISMs.
• Fixed a bug where some expandable parts were not properly receiving shielding from fairings.
• Fixed cost bugs with the Tundra PDU and P-Log Modules
• Material Kits can now come from the local vessel even if the container is not a warehouse.
• The Ranger mini hab now has its own texture.
• Agriculture converters no longer require Organics as an input
   

Relevant changes for USI-LS:

• Some changes regarding habitation overrides:
  • Any vessel with a habitation value of over 50 years will disregard Hab/Home penalties regardless of the voyage length.
  • For better balance, Scouts/Pilots must be in a vessel with at least one year of habitation to enable their bonus.
  • With an MKS Colonization bonus of 500%, crew in LANDED vessels with a habitation time of one year will be exempt from habitation penalties.
  • Both of these values may be customized (the above are defaults) via the GUI available at the space center.

[revolioclockbergjr]

15 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Agriculture converters no longer require Organics as an input

That will make it much easier to initialize a sustainable ColonySupplies system. Interesting!

Thanks for all the work you're putting into this, RoverDude. Truly a joy to explore what you've built.

Edited February 5, 2017 by revolioclockbergjr

[RoverDude]

20 minutes ago, revolioclockbergjr said:

That will make it much easier to initialize a sustainable ColonySupplies system. Interesting!

Thanks for all the work you're putting into this, RoverDude. Truly a joy to explore what you've built.

Note that they still have the required resource parameter, so you still need Organics to start off with, but the recipe is now streamlined a bit.

 

[Gilph]

36 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

• You can now toggle local logistics and planetary logistics separately on warehouses

I don't see any toggle buttons on the warehouse containers. Can someone else verify?

 

[RoverDude]

Whoops - grab the new USI Tools version that just went up a few seconds ago (0.8.13)

 

 

[Gilph]

9 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Whoops - grab the new USI Tools version that just went up a few seconds ago (0.8.13)

 

 

That did it.  Thanks very much

[Kaa253]

2 hours ago, RoverDude said:

Whoops - grab the new USI Tools version that just went up a few seconds ago (0.8.13)

 

 

@RoverDude I posted over in the Exploration pack thread. I see you are on to it . Full version of KSP-AVC saves my day yet again... 

 

Edited February 5, 2017 by Kaa253

[blu3wolf]

3 hours ago, RoverDude said:

0.50.15 - 2017.02.04
------------------

• Bundled the 'Ground Construction' mod as the standard off-world construction mod for USI.
• For users of EL, Technicians and Mechanics now have the ExConstructionSkill.
• You can no longer scrap EVA Kerbals...  (Thanks jd284!)
• New nodes on the Tundra modules and KSPedia entries (Thanks dboi88!)
• Added an antenna to the Salamander (Thanks voicey99!)
• Updated the Karibou to use CCK (Thanks DStaal)
• You can now toggle local logistics and planetary logistics separately on warehouses
• A new line of Tundra ISM's have been introduced.  These use the 4.75m form factor and are equivalent to the Ranger ISMs.
• Fixed a bug where some expandable parts were not properly receiving shielding from fairings.
• Fixed cost bugs with the Tundra PDU and P-Log Modules
• Material Kits can now come from the local vessel even if the container is not a warehouse.
• The Ranger mini hab now has its own texture.
• Agriculture converters no longer require Organics as an input
   

Relevant changes for USI-LS:

• Some changes regarding habitation overrides:
  • Any vessel with a habitation value of over 50 years will disregard Hab/Home penalties regardless of the voyage length.
  • For better balance, Scouts/Pilots must be in a vessel with at least one year of habitation to enable their bonus.
  • With an MKS Colonization bonus of 500%, crew in LANDED vessels with a habitation time of one year will be exempt from habitation penalties.
  • Both of these values may be customized (the above are defaults) via the GUI available at the space center.

Great stuff to see! Some questions.

Is Ground Construction a hard dependency, seeing as its bundled? For those preferring to use EL (I personally just dont want to be limited to prefab DIY kits), will its presence cause issues? Will removing it?

With the change to Ground Construction, you mentioned that EL parts will not be in MKS for the future. Is there plans to change the resource chain in MKS to accompany those changes?

On that note, for a career in progress, would you imagine this would cause save breaking mayhem?

Glad to see kerbals no longer scrappable! This is a major part of the inquiry regarding updating a save in progress, actually...

For the salamander, using CTT it seems to be in a relatively early node compared to other 2 man pods. Is that something you fix? Or should I bring that up on the CTT thread?

[Rehpic]

I'm not seeing GroundConstruction in the new version I downloaded via CKAN. Did it get left out?

[blu3wolf]

Its not in the NetKAN for UKS, so Id say it was downloaded but not installed.

Opened https://github.com/BobPalmer/CKAN/pull/17

Edited February 5, 2017 by blu3wolf

[Kaa253]

28 minutes ago, Rehpic said:

I'm not seeing GroundConstruction in the new version I downloaded via CKAN. Did it get left out?

If you have it then you should see the DIY kit container in the "Payload" parts. That's the group with the stock fairings aka the Airstream protective shells. There is also a GC button on the toolbar and several other cool parts by @allista.

1 hour ago, blu3wolf said:

Great stuff to see! Some questions.

Is Ground Construction a hard dependency, seeing as its bundled? For those preferring to use EL (I personally just dont want to be limited to prefab DIY kits), will its presence cause issues? Will removing it?

With the change to Ground Construction, you mentioned that EL parts will not be in MKS for the future. Is there plans to change the resource chain in MKS to accompany those changes?

On that note, for a career in progress, would you imagine this would cause save breaking mayhem?

Glad to see kerbals no longer scrappable! This is a major part of the inquiry regarding updating a save in progress, actually...

For the salamander, using CTT it seems to be in a relatively early node compared to other 2 man pods. Is that something you fix? Or should I bring that up on the CTT thread?

EL is still there and working correctly. Roverdude has said it will be deprecated eventually. I will be comfortable with that if orbital construction with GC () is made possible. 

The Ground Construction resource chain is already changed in this release to use Materials Kits in line with MKS. (It would be nice to have some Specialised Parts requirement going forwards.) If you are not using GC already this will not be game breaking.  If you are already using GC then there is a "convert old GC resources" function available so no mayhem there either.

This is indeed the correct thread to discuss CTT placement of MKS parts but I am pretty happy with its place in the Simple Command Modules node (it is on the same 90 science points level as the stock Hitchhiker with a crew capacity of 4). I have seen and used other mods with 3 man capsules at this level (e.g. HGR).

I am really pleased to see the GC bundled release and bursting to get into using it. Thanks @RoverDude

[blu3wolf]

1 minute ago, Kaa253 said:

EL is still there and working correctly. Roverdude has said it will be deprecated eventually. I will be comfortable with that if orbital construction with GC () is made possible.

This is indeed the correct thread to discuss CTT placement of MKS parts but I am pretty happy with its place in the Simple Command Modules node (it is on the same 90 science points level as the stock Hitchhiker with a crew capacity of 4). I have seen and used other mods with 3 man capsules at this level (e.g. HGR).

Well, the Salamander is in the 90 Science node. The stock 2 man lander is heavier, not fantastic, and at the 160 science node. With the Salamander, Im never going to bother unlocking the stock 2 man lander capsule. Then again I guess I wasnt going to anyway, if there was any possible alternative available. 90 Science just seems very early compared to stock parts in CTT.

Looking at GC, it looks pretty good actually. About my only qualms with it are the no orbital construction. For the moment, I guess what I can do is, disable the parts for ground construction for EL, and use EL only for orbital construction.

[Kaa253]

@blu3wolf I do feel for your thoughts on some parts' node placements in CTT.

I have changed the Power Coupler position down from Experimental Electrics to Advanced Electrics for myself. It is not hard to edit the MKS_CTT.cfg file. I found I was needing to use jittery KAS pipes just to distribute EC power. This defeats the whole disconnected bases anti-Kraken idea. The PDU's are high in the tech tree (fine). Then I thought, does it make sense that I need to learn Experimental Electrics (which has the RTGs) so I can have simple Power Couplers? After all this part is really (abstracted) just a box with a bunch of long extension cords! Kerbal version is probably not space-rated nor surge protected either.

We could/can always make a pull request for CTT node changes but I like the idea of doing a general collection of thoughts and some community discussion first.