[1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[RoverDude]

1 minute ago, voicey99 said:

This almost makes me want to upgrade to 1.3. I suppose they'll be inflatable?

Fabricated in place.  Difference being that most of their mass will be from 3d printed forms fabricated from local regolith vs. requiring a ton of matkits.  Similar to the idea of using lunar regolith to 3d print bases the ESA is talking about.

So they will be fairly easy to get out there in a DIY Kit, attach to the surface so no hopping bases, and just need some established infrastructure to set up the concrete manufacturing.  These will be at the tail end of CTT Colonization track, and require an established presence on the body (i.e. high kolonization stats) before construction as a balance lever.

[SilentWindOfDoom]

16 hours ago, Aelfhe1m said:

@SilentWindOfDoom Provided you've got at least one kerbal on your base, you should be able to use the local logistics window to transfer supplies from the nearby Kontainers to the base's own storage.

Going by the documentation I thought that a resource consumer, in this case the kerbitat would automatically pull resources from any warehouse enabled container within 150 meters if storage for $resource is >50% empty, it isn't doing that. The container itself isnt powered or manned/controlled. Is that the issue?

[RoverDude]

Just now, SilentWindOfDoom said:

Going by the documentation I thought that a resource consumer, in this case the kerbitat would automatically pull resources from any warehouse enabled container within 150 meters if storage for $resource is >50% empty, it isn't doing that. The container itself isnt powered or manned/controlled. Is that the issue?

Did you enable warehousing on the container and is it a USI container?

[voicey99]

1 minute ago, RoverDude said:

so they will be fairly easy to get out there in a DIY Kit

Hm. Huge, bulky ships/parts mean huge, bulky DIYKits. I tested, and the 15m-wide tank gave me a 5m-wide DIYKit, which is still extremely unwieldy. The DIYKit for a 20m-wide dome would be even bigger.

[SilentWindOfDoom]

25 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Did you enable warehousing on the container and is it a USI container?

Yes to both questions, the configuration is seen below. I attached a supplies tank to the top of the kerbitat using KAS so the base had something to pull resources into but it didn't transfer, even after several restarts. The kontainer is parked right next to the base.

Edit: I can transfer resources manually through the Dashboard, it just doesnt happen automatically.

This may be irrelevant, but. Out of sight here is a lander, I cannibalized the life support tank from it and attached it to the kerbitat. Maybe that somehow messed things up, because the base and the lander were considered to be the same entity as far as usi was concerned? Just spitballing here. 

Edited September 10, 2017 by SilentWindOfDoom

[RoverDude]

6 minutes ago, SilentWindOfDoom said:

Yes to both questions, the configuration is seen below. I attached a supplies tank to the top of the kerbitat using KAS so the base had something to pull resources into but it didn't transfer, even after several restarts. The kontainer is parked right next to the base.

Edit: I can transfer resources manually through the Dashboard, it just doesnt happen automatically.

This may be irrelevant, but. Out of sight here is a lander, I cannibalized the life support tank from it and attached it to the kerbitat. Maybe that somehow messed things up, because the base and the lander were considered to be the same entity as far as usi was concerned? Just spitballing here. 

Oh!  For that local logistics window to work, you need a Kerbal on both vessels.  Scavenging (as needed) does not require a Kerbal's presence

[SilentWindOfDoom]

7 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Oh!  For that local logistics window to work, you need a Kerbal on both vessels.  Scavenging (as needed) does not require a Kerbal's presence

After making the post I tested it some more. the supplies kontainer is laying about, unpowered/uncrewed as a single part and I was able to transfer from it using the local logistics window. It is s scavenging that doesn't seem to work.

Edited September 10, 2017 by SilentWindOfDoom

[Wyzard]

3 hours ago, RoverDude said:

20m base parts incoming...

I'm curious about the labels above the entrances (e.g. "airlock", "cargo bay") — are they fixed, or can they be configured?  I watched you do some of the modeling in your Twitch stream so I know that the large or small entrances will appear depending on which attachment node you connect to, and I think you've made it so that the small ones are always labeled "airlock" and the large ones are always "cargo bay".  Is that right, or will there be five different labels for the five positions around the circle?  Or do you plan to provide alternate labels that can be switched with something like a "repaint" button?

The domes look nice, btw. 

[RoverDude]

The cargo bay and airlock labels are pretty much flavor text (though I may add dynamic hatches).  The decal labels on the dome will be based on function.

[gamerscircle]

9 hours ago, Nergal8617 said:

I've noticed this behavior as well, however I also noticed that even though the rate on the drill said n/a it was still pulling up the resource like it was supposed to so I ended up just ignoring it most of the time.

Are you sure?  On mine.. I don't think it was...  I will be dropping a new drill this week and will be able to test that out. 

I really do appreciate the reply on this, as I thought.. I was starting to go a little loopie

[RoverDude]

If someone can check this in the pre-release that would be good   May be one of the stock issues we fixed

[CSE]

<snip: out-of-date reply to stale page>

Edited September 10, 2017 by CSE

[Nergal8617]

8 hours ago, gamerscircle said:

Are you sure?

I was watching the resource panel when I noticed it and all my raw resources were still going up.

[lBoBl]

Hello there ! First thing, I really really love this mod, thanks for all the awesome stuff @RoverDude

I've played it since 1.1 and I managed to get good results there after quite a bit of trial and error, but (fortunately) it seems that I have to do it all over again now that I'm playing 1.2.2

And after deploying my first bases I seem to have big efficiency problems. My supplies production is very low but I don't care that much because I don't need any excess, just what I need to feed my kerbals. I am more concerned with the MaterialKits and Specialized Parts production, that I need for Extraplanetary Launchpads in addition to the regular Machinery stuff... 

So basically in the old mks (on 1.1.3) I was getting about 2.3 materialKits per second with a fairly small base, now if I was getting half of that I would consider myself happy, although my processing bases are quite larger this time.

The exact situation is : I'm getting a ton of raw resources via planetary logistics, no problem on the drilling side. On the processing side, however, I'm getting very very low yields, I'm processing only a minuscule fraction of what I'm mining despite having fairly large bases... And I did not totally brute-force them either, I have a decent number of efficiency parts, level 5 specialists for every module, brought enough machinery and organics... And I'm only getting 0.16 MaterialKits per second if I produce almost no machinery.

So I guess my questions are : 

-How high should I expect the planetary bonuses to increase if I wait let's say for a year or two with about 30 kerbals on the surface ? With more kerbals ? I'm wondering if the typical values you get are more in the order of 150% or 600% for a decently kolonized moon

-Has the MaterialKits and SpecializedParts production been heavily nerfed overall ? Cause I agree they were pretty easy to get in previous versions, and I wouldn't mind if it was just longer and harder to get to the same kind of production rates. But from what I'm getting now, I'm presuming that my bases are going to be completely useless for further kolonization of other planets/moons,  and that requires me to revise my plans for pretty much the entire way I intended to play the game.

-Is there something essential that I'm missing ? I kinda hope so  What are the typical yields that you guys manage to achieve with your production chains ? Is there a complete and up-to-date tutorial on efficiency ?

Edited September 12, 2017 by lBoBl

[voicey99]

1 hour ago, lBoBl said:

How high should I expect the planetary bonuses to increase if I wait let's say for a year or two with about 30 kerbals on the surface ? With more kerbals ? I'm wondering if the typical values you get are more in the order of 150% or 600% for a decently kolonized moon.

I'm thinking of 100-200%. Hyperedit a load of kolonists over to check if you want.

1 hour ago, lBoBl said:

Has the MaterialKits and SpecializedParts production been heavily nerfed overall ? Cause I agree they were pretty easy to get in previous versions, and I wouldn't mind if it was just longer and harder to get to the same kind of production rates. But from what I'm getting now, I'm presuming that my bases are going to be completely useless for further kolonization of other planets/moons,  and that requires me to revise my plans for pretty much the entire way I intended to play the game.

MKS was totally overhauled for 1.2, so probably (I didn't use it when on 1.1). Production rates in MKS are typically quite low, so if you want a lot of stuff either add more processors, use efficiency parts or wait for the Geology rating to ramp up. Or just be patient and acknowledge you can't just pump out a rocket a day any more.

N.B. EPL integration is no longer supported, so unless the community provides updates the patch will degrade over the versions. Ground Construction is now the official replacement, better integration coming soon.

1 hour ago, lBoBl said:

 Is there something essential that I'm missing ? I kinda hope so  What are the typical yields that you guys manage to achieve with your production chains ? Is there a complete and up-to-date tutorial on efficiency ?

I can't remember off the bat but 0.16 seems normal. I wrote a page on how MKS calculates production here and I recommend this mod for seeing ingame load breakdowns.

Edited September 12, 2017 by voicey99
formatting derp, this isn't reddit

[lBoBl]

4 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

I'm thinking of 100-200%. Hyperedit a load of kolonists over to check if you want.

MKS was totally overhauled for 1.2, so probably (I didn't use it when on 1.1). Production rates in MKS are typically quite low, so if you want a lot of stuff either add more processors, use efficiency parts or wait for the Geology rating to ramp up. Or just be patient and acknowledge you can't just pump out a rocket a day any more.

N.B. EPL integration is no longer supported, so unless the community provides updates the patch will degrade over the versions. Ground Construction is now the official replacement, better integration coming soon.

I can't remember off the bat but 0.16 seems normal. I wrote a page on how MKS calculates production [here](https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/wiki/Functions-(Efficiency-and-Load\)) and I recommend [this mod](https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/157755-13-mks-explainer/&tab=comments#comment-2986545) for seeing ingame load breakdowns.

Thanks for your answers, all that is quite interresting. No need to hyperedit though, I have KSPIE installed

I managed to add a few more converters and get somewhat kind of decent rates (0.24) that could become decent with a high planetary bonus (x4 would be good  )... I guess I could deal with it, however it would be nice to have some kind of an even more advanced upper tier for people who really want to developp fully-blown industries on other planets.

I dislike many of the mechanics in EPL and Ground Construction looks cool, but having to send a kit for everything you want to build kind of diminishes the interest of bases... I mean it's fine in your homeworld SOI but I was setting base in Gauss' SOI in Galileo's Planet Pack, which is further away than stock Eeloo.

I'm thinking, perhaps now or perhaps at some point in near future, to make a new install of KSP and cheat a bit to restart approximately where I was (I can't just update because of mods). So I'm considering the Ground Construction option.

I could basically deal with the DIY kits for the initial base setup, but once I get that the ideal thing would be to have the option to developp a fully blown industry to be able to make the DIY kits on-site. Idk if Kerbal Konstructs could allow me to launch from multiple planets, in which case I would just dump a ton of resources and spawn a few KK buildings just to then spawn the DIY kits from them, and then build the vessels with my actual resources. 

So basically I would love it if this mod at some point in the future would have parts that allow for higher production rates and a way to build entire vessels in-situ but if someone knows of a not-too-cheaty way that would allow me to 'simulate' this, it would be greatly appreciated

 

[CaiusIuliusCaesar]

Dear Roverdude, dear community,

 

I am really enjoying the mod, I have it running together with Life support and a couple of other mods. I am running the last version before the 1.3 update, sine my game is still on 1.2.2.

My question is: In this version of MKS, was the Duna colonization module bugged? Because even if I have colony supplies and start the module, neither the home time, not the habitation time gets increased or frozen. I tried it on the surface of Iota (GPP mod) and in orbit. Nothing, nada, nichts. Am I missing something? Cause this pretty much means I cannot kolonize....

[voicey99]

8 hours ago, CaiusIuliusCaesar said:

My question is: In this version of MKS, was the Duna colonization module bugged? Because even if I have colony supplies and start the module, neither the home time, not the habitation time gets increased or frozen. I tried it on the surface of Iota (GPP mod) and in orbit. Nothing, nada, nichts. Am I missing something? Cause this pretty much means I cannot kolonize....

They might have to be in the part to get the effect, but I'm not sure about that. The desc also states that it only supports one kerbal.

9 hours ago, lBoBl said:

I could basically deal with the DIY kits for the initial base setup, but once I get that the ideal thing would be to have the option to develop a fully blown industry to be able to make the DIY kits on-site. Idk if Kerbal Konstructs could allow me to launch from multiple planets, in which case I would just dump a ton of resources and spawn a few KK buildings just to then spawn the DIY kits from them, and then build the vessels with my actual resources. 

So basically I would love it if this mod at some point in the future would have parts that allow for higher production rates and a way to build entire vessels in-situ but if someone knows of a not-too-cheaty way that would allow me to 'simulate' this, it would be greatly appreciated

You might be able to use EPL just to make a preset DIYKit (as they can only be assigned vessels in the VAB) and then build your ship from that, or you could print a kit with OSE, launch a new vessel with the configured kit and copypaste over the relevant partdata in the save file. Onsite DIYKit production is coming "soon^TM". Also, given the way kolony bonuses work, your production will ramp up exponentially over time and if you have a decent sized base you will be swimming in stuff after a few years.

[lBoBl]

1 hour ago, voicey99 said:

They might have to be in the part to get the effect, but I'm not sure about that. The desc also states that it only supports one kerbal.

You might be able to use EPL just to make a preset DIYKit (as they can only be assigned vessels in the VAB) and then build your ship from that, or you could print a kit with OSE, launch a new vessel with the configured kit and copypaste over the relevant partdata in the save file. Onsite DIYKit production is coming "soon^TM". Also, given the way kolony bonuses work, your production will ramp up exponentially over time and if you have a decent sized base you will be swimming in stuff after a few years.

That means even more kool features to come I guess   Also I updated and my supplies production got decent, and the kolonization bonuses seem to increase decently, so yeah in a few years I should be vomiting a shiny new rocket every minute.

One slight problem with the update though is, planetary resources locations have all been moved and I wonder if I can restore them back from the previous install (which I have kept), or maybe cause the resources to re-generate after I mess up a bit with their config files, because basically I have no more MetallicOre or RareMetals at all on the moon I settled on... I could deal with the resources that have been moved but having one missing entirely is a lot more of a problem. 

Anyone knows more about how resources generation works and where the actual generated data (not the generation .CFGs) is stored ? I think deleting said data may solve my problem but I may be wrong... Will a resource generate again if I just modify its .cfg file ?

 

Many thanks for all your past and future answers everyone

Edited September 13, 2017 by lBoBl

[DStaal]

2 hours ago, lBoBl said:

One slight problem with the update though is, planetary resources locations have all been moved and I wonder if I can restore them back from the previous install (which I have kept), or maybe cause the resources to re-generate after I mess up a bit with their config files, because basically I have no more MetallicOre or RareMetals at all on the moon I settled on... I could deal with the resources that have been moved but having one missing entirely is a lot more of a problem. 

Anyone knows more about how resources generation works and where the actual generated data (not the generation .CFGs) is stored ? I think deleting said data may solve my problem but I may be wrong... Will a resource generate again if I just modify its .cfg file ?

Resource distribution is all tied to the the random seed in the game, which is unique for every save file.  As long as that doesn't change, your resource locations shouldn't change.  (And conversely, you should be able to change that number and get a distribution - but it's non-deterministic what that distribution will be.  A specific number should always have the same, but other than that all bets are off.)

(I suppose if there were changes in the biomes or numbers of planets, that would likely also affect the distributions.)

[Gilph]

15 hours ago, lBoBl said:

-How high should I expect the planetary bonuses to increase if I wait let's say for a year or two with about 30 kerbals on the surface ? With more kerbals ? I'm wondering if the typical values you get are more in the order of 150% or 600% for a decently kolonized moon

I had a 7 base setup in Minmus with a self sustaining manufacturing setup.  I got to about 270%.  I would say 300% is a good average number. The bonuses are based on more than just number of kerbals, it's also drilling and resource management that will increase bonuses.

 

15 hours ago, lBoBl said:

-Has the MaterialKits and SpecializedParts production been heavily nerfed overall ? Cause I agree they were pretty easy to get in previous versions, and I wouldn't mind if it was just longer and harder to get to the same kind of production rates. But from what I'm getting now, I'm presuming that my bases are going to be completely useless for further kolonization of other planets/moons,  and that requires me to revise my plans for pretty much the entire way I intended to play the game.

I have always had way too much stuff after a year of manufacturing, even when I use only one bay for SP and one for Machinery.  My needs are not massive, but the volume and rate of manufactured stuff is very generous, probably too much. I would just start on Minmus and prototype your bases, get your bonuses over 200% and evaluate if it's enough.

 

15 hours ago, lBoBl said:

-Is there something essential that I'm missing ? I kinda hope so  What are the typical yields that you guys manage to achieve with your production chains ? Is there a complete and up-to-date tutorial on efficiency ?

Playing with the production chains is the fun of MKS. The resource wikis are up to date, and there are some obvious things to plan for to get an initial configuration. I would recommend that you make sure that all of your bases have a MK and SP container so that you are able to reconfigure bays.  I usually change my bay configs slightly, depending on what I need, especially when the bonuses get rolling. Also, go back through this topic and find discussions on storage tank size planning to properly support PL and scavenging.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Gilph
Changed MK to Machinery

[IuliusCaesar]

5 hours ago, voicey99 said:

They might have to be in the part to get the effect, but I'm not sure about that. The desc also states that it only supports one kerbal.

You might be able to use EPL just to make a preset DIYKit (as they can only be assigned vessels in the VAB) and then build your ship from that, or you could print a kit with OSE, launch a new vessel with the configured kit and copypaste over the relevant partdata in the save file. Onsite DIYKit production is coming "soon^TM". Also, given the way kolony bonuses work, your production will ramp up exponentially over time and if you have a decent sized base you will be swimming in stuff after a few years.

That's not it. The Kerbal was inside the duna colonization module , the colony supplies were present, yet his hab and home clock went down just as fast as the other kerbal's who was in the normal habitation module. Truly, this makes long-term kolonization impossible

[voicey99]

19 minutes ago, IuliusCaesar said:

That's not it. The Kerbal was inside the duna colonization module , the colony supplies were present, yet his hab and home clock went down just as fast as the other kerbal's who was in the normal habitation module. Truly, this makes long-term kolonization impossible

This seems silly, but did you actually turn it on?

E: You don't strictly need kolonisation modules, as any kerbal with 50+yrs of hab will have infinite (1yr if a pilot or kolonisation rating is >500%)

Edited September 13, 2017 by voicey99

[Sebastiaz]

I know this seems a bit of a silly question, but, I'm missing a part from the mod which I really wanna know where it is, since after tons of looking, I can't seem to be finding it. The part is that Orion looking part on the second picture of the mod picture, any idea what option it is in? As I've checked in the pods menu, not there. I also seem to be getting limited parts when I type in "UmbraSpaceIndustries".

[voicey99]

2 minutes ago, Sebastiaz said:

I know this seems a bit of a silly question, but, I'm missing a part from the mod which I really wanna know where it is, since after tons of looking, I can't seem to be finding it. The part is that Orion looking part on the second picture of the mod picture, any idea what option it is in? As I've checked in the pods menu, not there. I also seem to be getting limited parts when I type in "UmbraSpaceIndustries".

Assuming you mean the starship-bridge-looking part on the 2nd lower panel, that's the Orca Command Pod from USI FTT, not MKS. I don't believe all parts are tagged fully as well.