[1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[Shoryuken]

Hi there, im having a little issue with the Status Screen, if im on a vessel for a little longer than the other vessels what are flying around showing up in the screen as out of EC and until i switch to them they will countdown... they still have plently of EC though can i solve that somehow ?

[Requia]

On 8/10/2018 at 7:19 PM, Johould said:

"pull in all resources" is an oblique reference to harvesting Dirt and then running it through a sifter. The sifter part will do exactly what you expected to see from the drill, pushing a little bit of every resource into available tanks (and just dumping the rest). The amounts are proportional to overall planetary abundance. 

If that's the case it's displaying wrong in the VAB, it says it just outputs rock, so I've been ignoring it as I don't have the tech to further process rock.

 

I'm thinking I need to build the base as separate modules from now on, instead of attaching via KAS, but I'm not 100% sure how that works with kerbal skills.  Will I need to have all my miners in the drill unit (and only the one drill unit), or will they by able to chill in hab modules?

 

Edit: This is actually stupidly easy to test, I moved my miner into the rover and the drills work as before.  Unhooking the rover did reveal that kerbals won't draw monoprop, so I'll need every module to have it's own monoprop storage.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Requia

[infinite_monkey]

I'm still struggling with resource lodes a bit. Fortunately, one appeared right beside my base, so I KAS-attached my mining rover to the base, and voilá, every resource I have storage for was being mined. BUT that doesn't work when the rover is detached - the resource lode is being harvested, but it's just thrown away.

While virtually any small resource container can use logistics, meaning that it can be REALLY small since stuff will be pushed to nearby storage anyway (is it? I'm not sure), they can just hold a single resource. So my options are to either add a ridiculous number of different containers to my rover, or to concentrate on a small number of resources, switching containers later on (and consuming specialized parts by doing that). Is that the idea?

[Wyzard]

31 minutes ago, infinite_monkey said:

switching containers later on (and consuming specialized parts by doing that). Is that the idea?

It costs specialized parts to change what a drill extracts, but not what a kontainer holds.  Just walk an EVA kerbal over to the kontainer, right-click it, and pick "Repaint".  Works for all the tanks in the USI Logistics editor tab, as well as the Karibou and Malemute storage bays.  Some other mods provide switchable tanks with similar functionality but different UI.

So for mining dirt or resource lodes, you can freely switch your tanks to hold whatever resource(s) you want to extract, and change at any time.

[infinite_monkey]

Oh, good to know switching kontainer type is free, thanke  But nonetheless, it's only one at a time, so resource lodes are mostly wasted? Or does it contain just the right resources my kontainer can hold? 

[Wyzard]

Basically the latter.  It produces all resources that the planet has available — IIRC anything above 1% planetary concentration.  Anything that your vessel can hold will be stored, and the rest gets discarded.  If you have multiple containers, you can set them to hold different resources and they'll be filled simultaneously (assuming the planet has the resource available).

[infinite_monkey]

So if I have a lode of, say, 5000 kg, and the planet has 10 resources at 2% concentration each. If I have kontainers for every resource, I'll get 500 kg per rescource, correct? But if I only have one kontainer, will it then contain 500kg or 5000? I'm not sure if this is relevant, though - do resource lodes keep reappearing close to the base?

[Wyzard]

I don't know the details of how much resource mass you get from a lode.  (I haven't actually done any resource lodes in quite awhile, because they're a pain to grab with the klaw.)  But I'm pretty sure you won't get more of one resource just because you lack storage for another.  The dirt sifter produces all the (planetary available) resources regardless of what you have storage for, and the outputs flow into available storage or get discarded if there's nowhere to go.  The sifter doesn't know or care what's being stored and what's being discarded; it doesn't take that into account when determining what to produce.

When you scan for resource lodes with a Pioneer module, it generates one nearby.  You can do that as often as you want, so it doesn't really matter if you're "wasting" some resources from a lode (by not having storage), because there are always more.  You can also scan for lodes from orbit using one of the orbital scanners (I don't remember which one) and it generates a much bigger lode that could be anywhere on the planet.

[Johould]

On 8/12/2018 at 11:36 AM, Requia said:

If that's the case it's displaying wrong in the VAB, it says it just outputs rock, so I've been ignoring it as I don't have the tech to further process rock.

Some kind of number in the VAB would be nice, but it can't be fully accurate when the output mix depends on the planet.

21 hours ago, Wyzard said:

I don't know the details of how much resource mass you get from a lode.  (I haven't actually done any resource lodes in quite awhile, because they're a pain to grab with the klaw.)  But I'm pretty sure you won't get more of one resource just because you lack storage for another.  The dirt sifter produces all the (planetary available) resources regardless of what you have storage for, and the outputs flow into available storage or get discarded if there's nowhere to go.

It looks like both sifters are currently set up to produce a maximum of 1 unit of resources per 1 unit of resource lode, and 0.25 units per 1 unit of dirt. Each output resource is produced at that rate times its planetary abundance divided by the sum of planetary abundance of all resources except the input of the converter (not sure if you get Dirt output from processing a resource lode). Looks like it's just by units rather than mass balance. The planetary abundance numbers should be available in the tracking station (may not be populated if you use SCANSat, depending on "stock" settings).

Resources that don't meet the minimum abundance still count towards the "sum of planetary abundance of all resources except ...". Also, random unused resources from other mods will also add to the total, if you have any (somehow I have "Alumina and Monazzite", which seem to be added by CRP despite nothing using them).

Edit: Alumina+Monazzite make up 2/5th of the non-dirt resource abundance on my Mun. No wonder sifting for gypsum for life support isn't going as well as expected. I hope I can remove those resources.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Johould
"Monazzite" without the extra z apparently contains a bad word

[Johould]

On 8/12/2018 at 11:36 AM, Requia said:

Edit: This is actually stupidly easy to test, I moved my miner into the rover and the drills work as before.  Unhooking the rover did reveal that kerbals won't draw monoprop, so I'll need every module to have it's own monoprop storage.

Strange, an MEU-100 it definitely lost the engineer skill bonus when I separated my test rover. What did you test? I just tested a little two-part rover on the runway, with drills and a non-engineer kerbal on one side of the separator, and the engineer on the other. Drill load was 85% with them docked (3-star engineer), only 5% undocked.

[infinite_monkey]

I can confirm there needs to be an Engineer in the vessel with the drill/converter. So I need to add some crew module to that one, some suppy storage and a habitation module, or I need to switch vessels constantly. If there are magic invisible power cords, I guess a Kerbal could "magically" go to sleep from time to time to a habitat within 500m/go to work in the morning?

Something similar is true for small nearby resource lodes: you need a rover to go to them, and since logistics always pull, never push, you need a lot of storage on the rover, or you keep watching the kontainer being filled, drive it to your base, and come back for harvesting later.

I'm not sure I like the idea of separate nearby modules if I need to keep moving kerbals and rovers back and forth 

 

A question about the Ranger Habitation module: it can be configured as common space or quarters. However, I can enable both Hab-Common and Hab-Quarterd at the same time!? What does the configuration do, then?

[DStaal]

1 hour ago, infinite_monkey said:

I can confirm there needs to be an Engineer in the vessel with the drill/converter. So I need to add some crew module to that one, some suppy storage and a habitation module, or I need to switch vessels constantly. If there are magic invisible power cords, I guess a Kerbal could "magically" go to sleep from time to time to a habitat within 500m/go to work in the morning?

Yes - consider the where you place the Kerbal their 'workstation'.  That's where they go during their on-duty shift - they can go anywhere within the local area when they're off-duty.  So Habitation is pooled for all nearby vessels - you don't need a habitation module on every drill, if you have several in the area, you only need one bunkhouse.  (Though the bunkhouse might need at least one Kerbal to be considered.)

Supplies are even more open - Kerbals will actively go seeking supplies, even opening locked crates if they can't get them any other way.  (What, you're going to starve just because you were told not to take a crowbar to that box of food?)

 

For the rover and resource loads - there are a couple of exceptions to the 'always pull'.  First off, Planetary Logistics is *both* push and pull - If you have the right containers and logistics set up, they'll push into PL for you when you go over half-full.  Secondly, there's the manual logistics via the Kolonization dashboard.  Since it's manual, it doesn't really count as either pull or push.

[Johould]

3 hours ago, infinite_monkey said:

A question about the Ranger Habitation module: it can be configured as common space or quarters. However, I can enable both Hab-Common and Hab-Quarterd at the same time!? What does the configuration do, then?

That's a bug. I guess they would both work? That goes away if you reconfigure in the field (I don't remember if changing in the VAB fixes anything).

You can fix it by moving the "ModuleSwappableConverter" section in the part .cfg after the options it's supposed to control, maybe something to do with setting up the initial state. That's a bit strange because that file has been in the current order forever and used to work fine. I suppose something changed in USITools.

[infinite_monkey]

9 hours ago, DStaal said:

Yes - consider the where you place the Kerbal their 'workstation'.  That's where they go during their on-duty shift - they can go anywhere within the local area when they're off-duty.  So Habitation is pooled for all nearby vessels - you don't need a habitation module on every drill, if you have several in the area, you only need one bunkhouse.  (Though the bunkhouse might need at least one Kerbal to be considered.)

Supplies are even more open - Kerbals will actively go seeking supplies, even opening locked crates if they can't get them any other way.  (What, you're going to starve just because you were told not to take a crowbar to that box of food?)

 

For the rover and resource loads - there are a couple of exceptions to the 'always pull'.  First off, Planetary Logistics is *both* push and pull - If you have the right containers and logistics set up, they'll push into PL for you when you go over half-full.  Secondly, there's the manual logistics via the Kolonization dashboard.  Since it's manual, it doesn't really count as either pull or push.

Hmm, so is the supplies overview wrong, or is there an exception for rovers? I have 3 kerbals in my resource lode rover. Even if I'm within 50 m of the base, they are starving, and hab time is the same as if there's no base. I didn't wait until the time runs out, though, since I didn't want to have tourists around...

[DStaal]

2 hours ago, infinite_monkey said:

Hmm, so is the supplies overview wrong, or is there an exception for rovers? I have 3 kerbals in my resource lode rover. Even if I'm within 50 m of the base, they are starving, and hab time is the same as if there's no base. I didn't wait until the time runs out, though, since I didn't want to have tourists around...

The supplies overview is simplistic, but in that case I think something else may be going on.  Do you have a Kerbal on the base?  (As mentioned, I think you need one to keep the lights on, as it were.)

For Supplies in particular, it's likely that the overview isn't calculating in scavenging - so I'd assume it'd show them as no Supplies left, but not out of time in that case.  (Assuming there's Supplies on the base, that is.)

[infinite_monkey]

Yes, there are 4 Kerbals on the base. So I guess I'll just let those in the rover run out of supplies/hab time and see what happens

[DStaal]

27 minutes ago, infinite_monkey said:

Yes, there are 4 Kerbals on the base. So I guess I'll just let those in the rover run out of supplies/hab time and see what happens

A good pic of the situation might allow someone to work out what's going on better as well.  There's always unspoken assumptions about things otherwise.

[Sage Percival]

Hi! I'm new to modding on KSP and one of the first mods I've wanted to download properly is Modular Kolonization Systems. I installed it using the instructions and downloaded it from the official site with the latest release. When verifying that I had all of the files, I noticed that I didn't have the "kolonization" folder. I looked on this section of the forums and found someone who had the exact same problem. Another person replied to them with a hotfix which I then tried to use to patch up my download. When I next loaded KSP it said that the mod doesn't support this version of KSP. In summary, without this folder I do not have any of the kolonization modules such as the tundra modules etc. Can anyone help or link me to a hotfix that is not outdated?

Thank you in advance,

~A fellow USI Fan

[infinite_monkey]

OK, I'm stupid  Life support status clearly states "? vessels shared within 150m". Apparently it wasn't 50 meters when I checked, at least not from the vessel with the habitation module. It's just supplies that don't seem to be shared

[Johould]

3 hours ago, Sage Percival said:

When verifying that I had all of the files, I noticed that I didn't have the "kolonization" folder. I looked on this section of the forums and found someone who had the exact same problem. Another person replied to them with a hotfix which I then tried to use to patch up my download. When I next loaded KSP it said that the mod doesn't support this version of KSP.

There shouldn't be any folder named kolonization, and I don't know about any recent MKS hotfixes. The MKS colonization parts are all under "GameData/UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS".

What version of KSP are you using and what else do you have installed?

2 hours ago, infinite_monkey said:

OK, I'm stupid  Life support status clearly states "? vessels shared within 150m". Apparently it wasn't 50 meters when I checked, at least not from the vessel with the habitation module. It's just supplies that don't seem to be shared

I don't know what happens if you don't have any supply storage at all. Without testing I would guess they would show as "starving" but the starving time would never drop. If you have any storage it should automatically pull over some supplies. At 1.08 supplies/kerbal/day before recyclers even the tiny surface mount has more than enough space to keep a lone drill operator fed for 12 hours - constantly fed even during catch-up processing (also recyclers definitely do share in the same range as habs).

[Sage Percival]

Thank you for the information, I must have been using an invalid or outdated guide. I'm using version 1.4.5 of KSP and I have no other mods installed. I have tried to download MKS multiple times and the persisting problem is when I check in sandbox I am missing all of the colonization parts such as all of the MKS 'Tundra' parts. I am unsure whether it is an installation error or if there are any parts missing in my download or any other issue I may not be aware of.

[Johould]

I see there are not explicit install instructions here, but you shouldn't do anything besides downloading the latest release from the links in the first post in this thread, and putting all the folders under GameData/ in the zip file into your KSP installation's GameData folder.

From a fresh KSP that should give you everything from MKS, except the DIY kit is known to be broken. I haven't ever tried MKS without USI-LS, but it's supposed to work - and you should at least see the parts that don't have any life support functionality. (To have a nice game you probably want to install at least USI-LS, KAS+KIS, and the Ground Construction 2 beta).

Please include logs if you still don't see the parts or the MKS categories in the VAB. (If are searching for parts by name just typing Tundra won't work, you should search for MKS or for 'Tundra' with the quotes).

[Cheif Operations Director]

Does this still work in KSP 1.4? and when using sandbox is it possible to disable life support?

[goldenpsp]

3 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Does this still work in KSP 1.4? and when using sandbox is it possible to disable life support?

Reading release notes FTW.

[KerbolExplorer]

Where can i check what each Kerbal job can do?.The manual only says what pilots,engeniers and scientist can do