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[1.11.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)


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28 minutes ago, Bogey71 said:

Question: Is it then possible to integrate this into a running game or do I have to fully restart a new game from scratch?

You can add it to an existing game with no issues.

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33 minutes ago, Bogey71 said:

Hi all,

being now to this MKS: I am now waiting for CKAN also until it is downloadable from there.

Question: Is it then possible to integrate this into a running game or do I have to fully restart a new game from scratch?

Regards

Chris

It is possible to integrate it into a running game. However, the USI-LS setting modifications will only be applied in new games. However, USI-LS should not be installed in running games unless you (a) have all crew back on Kerbin or (b) are willing to put up with your Kerbals temporarily turning into tourists.

As for CKAN, I don't think MKS will appear on CKAN until @allista updates GC, as MKS is listed to depend on it. You really don't need CKAN, just grab the download and merge the GameData in the zip with the GameData in KSP and use AVC to check for updates.

 

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25 minutes ago, TDplay said:

It is possible to integrate it into a running game. However, the USI-LS setting modifications will only be applied in new games. However, USI-LS should not be installed in running games unless you (a) have all crew back on Kerbin or (b) are willing to put up with your Kerbals temporarily turning into tourists.

As for CKAN, I don't think MKS will appear on CKAN until @allista updates GC, as MKS is listed to depend on it. You really don't need CKAN, just grab the download and merge the GameData in the zip with the GameData in KSP and use AVC to check for updates.

 

I'm trying my best to update everything tonight. Just several test runs more... :confused:

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1 minute ago, allista said:

I'm trying my best to update everything tonight. Just several test runs more... :confused:

It's OK, I really don't mind. Don't force yourself to update GC. EL's doing me OK for now (but the amount of SP needed is annoying).

Still, looking forward to seeing GC in 1.4! No pressure, but I really am excited to be able to use GC in 1.4. :):):) and a 4th one for extra encouragement and moral support :)

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Is there a way to calculate/see the calculation of how many kerbals a base can indefinitely support, as far as supplies go, as long as the fertilizer (or water and substrate/dirt) input remains steady? Or how many kerbals a particular agroponics part can sustain?

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Also, I'm planning on building colonies in Dres and Laythe and currently practicing base building at the Mun and Minmus. The Mun shipping mostly everything either directly or in diy kits and I'm trying to make a base at Minmus as independent from launches from Kerbin as possible, since those won't be much of an option in Dres and Laythe. Full bases are very heavy and launching them directly isn't a good option for Dres (2 to 2.5 km/s to circularize) or Laythe (atmosphere plus getting there plus too much sea). Using GC makes it easier to deliver the payload, but it doesn't cut much of the payload weight, so I'm planning to use EPL with resources gathered in situ.

My first issue is that, with MKS, EPL uses specialized parts and material kits - and if I deliver an already working supply chain to manufacture both in situ, I pretty much deliver half the base (plus the weight issue). EPL parts can produce SP and MK out of Metal Ore, but in that case, I'm taking a short cut through MKS production chain. Why would I harvest and refine 5 raw resources and use three Tundra modules to manufacture SP and MK when I can use EPL parts to produce from a single resource instead? So far I decided to delete the MKS patch that changes rocket parts to SP and MK in order to keep MKS and EPL production chains separate. This allows me to start a remote base with a simpler resource chain while keeping MK and SP production hard (and they are still required for machinery, deploying stuff and OSE workshop so I still need to build them)

 

My plans, which I'm practicing at Minmus right now are:

Phase 0: survey the celestial body, both from orbit and the ground. I'm looking at the intersection of two biomes (3 if at all possible) with a variety of resources, focusing in gypsum, ore and metal ore (not metallic ore). Equatorial sites are preferred.

Phase 1: the only delivery from the Kerbin system:

2 bases, one with KPBS parts which includes the EPL production chain, a nuclear reactor and small ore mining and storage parts, a ranger crushomatic and small gypsum drill. Base 2 (1.2?) has a Duna colonization module to reset habitation timers, one Duna kerbitat module (maybe I should just send a Tundra instead?), a Tundra Pioneer Logistics to enable Planetary and Local logistics (uh, and orbital after the base is developed), colony supplies for the colonization module and a nomomatic to produce a bit of supplies. These two bases will be initially crewed by a skeleton crew of 3: 1 engineer, 1 pilot and 1 scientist. It should be self sustaining as far as fertilizer/supplies go and also provide over a year of hab time. I'll also be dropping a 2.5 kontainer full of machinery for later use, a bit of organics and I was thinking about sending enriched uranium. But nuclear fuel is heavy so if uranite is present at the base location, I think I may just deliver the Tundra nuclear fuel plant. I'm not sure about using ranger parts at this point. They are lighter but they also require heavy material kits for deployment to the point that deploying in situ may be as heavy as sending a Tundra module. I was considering deploying them in LKO (or low munar orbit if built there) and sending them to Dres already deployed. Sending them to Laythe that way will be more complicated due the atmosphere there. Is there a point in using ranger deployable parts unless you already have a functioning base with an excess production of material kits?

Phase 2: Mining.

From here on everything has to be manufactured in situ through EPL. I'm also wondering whether new modules can be easily moved around with a rover, maybe a Konstruction one, something using KAS wenches or just pushed around. My initial designs are all rovers, and I can disassemble the wheels later for MK (but I wouldn't have mk storage at this point) and to save part count. They'd take a bit longer to build, but it's probably simpler than pushing them around with a rover. If a rover can be used to move things around, build that rover first (obviously).

1 additional ore & metal ore harvester with larger tanks to expand the initial base capabilities and store more raw resources as a buffer. The EPL modules should be running non stop at this point, though. This will be connected to the main base through KAS bases.

(possibly) 1 collection of fuel tanks so the base can already begin to work as a refueling site for other ships in the system. If I already keep large tanks filled with fuel here, the turnaround time for ships landing here to refuel will be short. The catch is that, at Dres, this isn't so important due the dresteroids and at Laythe it's problematic due the atmosphere - I'd need to use some spaceplane tanker instead to refuel stuff in orbit or keep a second mining base at Vall, maybe automated. It is useful at Minmus, though.

2 automated miners (or three if I have another third biome within scavenging range) to mine around the base. Does the MKS power coupler join them as a single vessel if I use it to transfer power from the main base? I need to play around with it more. If they need an autonomous power supply, I'll need to provide them with enriched uranium for their nuclear reactors.

Additional automated miners to mine stuff not available at the base and share it through planetary logistics. These obviously are autonomous rovers with on board nuclear reactors. On Dres and Minmus, they are delivered to their destination using Bon Voyage (the rover autopilot mod). On Laythe, that's going to be a bit of a challenge. I'll need to either build a big cargo plane or build these miners as planes. I guess it depends on how many of them I need. Also, I'm guessing I should be able to mine from the ocean's crust if I design a ship capable of submerging and remain attached to the crust, right? Which is the smallest piece with ground tether? 

Phase 3: manufacturing (and priorities)

1. I need to decide which manufacturing chains to prioritize at this point. As long as I can get water, even if it's through planetary logistics, I can avoid hydrates and the Tundra Agriculture Support Modules. I can make supplies out of agroponics and substrate. So if I start with a Tundra Agriculture Module and maybe a few additional kerbitats and I can land additional kerbals into the base, so I use more engineers for EPL construction and begin increasing kolonization bonuses.

2. The machinery supply chain, starting with two refineries and one assembly plant, plus all the assorted containers for the required resources. Do I add a Tundra Recycling module at this time?

3. I'll probably need an additional nuclear reactor by now.

Phase 4: manufacturing 2

Material Kits should be trickling up by now, depending on how many machinery I need to fill. I think at this point I should increase silicon and chemical production and begin the colony supplies chain. My Mun base is running an organics deficit at this point, so I need to check how much organics and how much colony supplies I really need. Maybe, since I already have a buffer of colony supplies from Phase 1, only build colony supplies as needed? Since material kits are available, I can now increase the base size with ranger parts.

I should also create a Tundra Nuclear processing plant if I didn't land one at this point.

Finally, add Akademy, Colonization modules and more habitats.

 

How does this plan looks like?

 

 

Edited by juanml82
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22 hours ago, allista said:

I'm trying my best to update everything tonight. Just several test runs more... :confused:

Hi, so does that mean I can wait for it in CKAN? No pressure though.

22 hours ago, TDplay said:

It is possible to integrate it into a running game. However, the USI-LS setting modifications will only be applied in new games....

 

That was also one question I had. If I have a game already running, there's no way to go into these setting modifications, to activate that new mod.

What would be the point in installing it into a running game then?
Looks like I am missing something here..

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18 minutes ago, juanml82 said:

Also, I'm planning on building colonies in Dres and Laythe and currently practicing base building at the Mun and Minmus. The Mun shipping mostly everything either directly or in diy kits and I'm trying to make a base at Minmus as independent from launches from Kerbin as possible, since those won't be much of an option in Dres and Laythe. Full bases are very heavy and launching them directly isn't a good option for Dres (2 to 2.5 km/s to circularize) or Laythe (atmosphere plus getting there plus too much sea). Using GC makes it easier to deliver the payload, but it doesn't cut much of the payload weight, so I'm planning to use EPL with resources gathered in situ.

My first issue is that, with MKS, EPL uses specialized parts and material kits - and if I deliver an already working supply chain to manufacture both in situ, I pretty much deliver half the base (plus the weight issue). EPL parts can produce SP and MK out of Metal Ore, but in that case, I'm taking a short cut through MKS production chain. Why would I harvest and refine 5 raw resources and use three Tundra modules to manufacture SP and MK when I can use EPL parts to produce from a single resource instead? So far I decided to delete the MKS patch that changes rocket parts to SP and MK in order to keep MKS and EPL production chains separate. This allows me to start a remote base with a simpler resource chain while keeping MK and SP production hard (and they are still required for machinery, deploying stuff and OSE workshop so I still need to build them)

 

My plans, which I'm practicing at Minmus right now are:

Phase 0: survey the celestial body, both from orbit and the ground. I'm looking at the intersection of two biomes (3 if at all possible) with a variety of resources, focusing in gypsum, ore and metal ore (not metallic ore). Equatorial sites are preferred.

Phase 1: the only delivery from the Kerbin system:

2 bases, one with KPBS parts which includes the EPL production chain, a nuclear reactor and small ore mining and storage parts, a ranger crushomatic and small gypsum drill. Base 2 (1.2?) has a Duna colonization module to reset habitation timers, one Duna kerbitat module (maybe I should just send a Tundra instead?), a Tundra Pioneer Logistics to enable Planetary and Local logistics (uh, and orbital after the base is developed), colony supplies for the colonization module and a nomomatic to produce a bit of supplies. These two bases will be initially crewed by a skeleton crew of 3: 1 engineer, 1 pilot and 1 scientist. It should be self sustaining as far as fertilizer/supplies go and also provide over a year of hab time. I'll also be dropping a 2.5 kontainer full of machinery for later use, a bit of organics and I was thinking about sending enriched uranium. But nuclear fuel is heavy so if uranite is present at the base location, I think I may just deliver the Tundra nuclear fuel plant. I'm not sure about using ranger parts at this point. They are lighter but they also require heavy material kits for deployment to the point that deploying in situ may be as heavy as sending a Tundra module. I was considering deploying them in LKO (or low munar orbit if built there) and sending them to Dres already deployed. Sending them to Laythe that way will be more complicated due the atmosphere there. Is there a point in using ranger deployable parts unless you already have a functioning base with an excess production of material kits?

Phase 2: Mining.

From here on everything has to be manufactured in situ through EPL. I'm also wondering whether new modules can be easily moved around with a rover, maybe a Konstruction one, something using KAS wenches or just pushed around. My initial designs are all rovers, and I can disassemble the wheels later for MK (but I wouldn't have mk storage at this point) and to save part count. They'd take a bit longer to build, but it's probably simpler than pushing them around with a rover. If a rover can be used to move things around, build that rover first (obviously).

1 additional ore & metal ore harvester with larger tanks to expand the initial base capabilities and store more raw resources as a buffer. The EPL modules should be running non stop at this point, though. This will be connected to the main base through KAS bases.

(possibly) 1 collection of fuel tanks so the base can already begin to work as a refueling site for other ships in the system. If I already keep large tanks filled with fuel here, the turnaround time for ships landing here to refuel will be short. The catch is that, at Dres, this isn't so important due the dresteroids and at Laythe it's problematic due the atmosphere - I'd need to use some spaceplane tanker instead to refuel stuff in orbit or keep a second mining base at Vall, maybe automated. It is useful at Minmus, though.

2 automated miners (or three if I have another third biome within scavenging range) to mine around the base. Does the MKS power coupler join them as a single vessel if I use it to transfer power from the main base? I need to play around with it more. If they need an autonomous power supply, I'll need to provide them with enriched uranium for their nuclear reactors.

Additional automated miners to mine stuff not available at the base and share it through planetary logistics. These obviously are autonomous rovers with on board nuclear reactors. On Dres and Minmus, they are delivered to their destination using Bon Voyage (the rover autopilot mod). On Laythe, that's going to be a bit of a challenge. I'll need to either build a big cargo plane or build these miners as planes. I guess it depends on how many of them I need. Also, I'm guessing I should be able to mine from the ocean's crust if I design a ship capable of submerging and remain attached to the crust, right? Which is the smallest piece with ground tether? 

Phase 3: manufacturing (and priorities)

1. I need to decide which manufacturing chains to prioritize at this point. As long as I can get water, even if it's through planetary logistics, I can avoid hydrates and the Tundra Agriculture Support Modules. I can make supplies out of agroponics and substrate. So if I start with a Tundra Agriculture Module and maybe a few additional kerbitats and I can land additional kerbals into the base, so I use more engineers for EPL construction and begin increasing kolonization bonuses.

2. The machinery supply chain, starting with two refineries and one assembly plant, plus all the assorted containers for the required resources. Do I add a Tundra Recycling module at this time?

3. I'll probably need an additional nuclear reactor by now.

Phase 4: manufacturing 2

Material Kits should be trickling up by now, depending on how many machinery I need to fill. I think at this point I should increase silicon and chemical production and begin the colony supplies chain. My Mun base is running an organics deficit at this point, so I need to check how much organics and how much colony supplies I really need. Maybe, since I already have a buffer of colony supplies from Phase 1, only build colony supplies as needed? Since material kits are available, I can now increase the base size with ranger parts.

I should also create a Tundra Nuclear processing plant if I didn't land one at this point.

Finally, add Akademy, Colonization modules and more habitats.

 

How does this plan looks like?

 

 

Really good stuff :P

One of my strategies is that I send a space station first, with a lot of hab/home time. Not really that difficult to do, just need some heavy lifters. With the right amount of recycling and fertilizer, the Kerbals will be safe for a long time. The station also has an ISRU and an ore lander with drills that can lift ore into orbit to be processed for fuel for later ships. That will transition to the surface eventually, but it works well in the short term.

Dres is fairly easy, but Laythe is hard unless you use SSTOs.

Instead of landing Machinery first, I'll land MK. If you land inflatable Ranger parts or surface habs, you will need MK first. Machinery is used very slowly, and the machinery shipped in the parts is usually sufficient until you can make it on your own.

My process is, generally:

  1. Send Hab/ISRU space station with initial Kerbals,  mining lander and large MK Kontainer.
  2. Land Kontainer at base site
  3. Find nice ore locations and start making round trips to the surface to fill your empty space station tanks with fuel.
  4. Next launch cycle, send the Assembly building that is capable of making SP and Machinery. Inflate everything you need.
  5. Use EPL to make a facility to manufacture MK and larger Hab bases. If there is any MK left over from the container, start making Machinery (I don't use EPL, I would fly both assembly and MK separately). At some point, your MK factory will replenish the MK used from the Kontainer and you are good.

 

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28 minutes ago, Gilph said:

Really good stuff :P

One of my strategies is that I send a space station first, with a lot of hab/home time. Not really that difficult to do, just need some heavy lifters. With the right amount of recycling and fertilizer, the Kerbals will be safe for a long time. The station also has an ISRU and an ore lander with drills that can lift ore into orbit to be processed for fuel for later ships. That will transition to the surface eventually, but it works well in the short term.

Dres is fairly easy, but Laythe is hard unless you use SSTOs.

Instead of landing Machinery first, I'll land MK. If you land inflatable Ranger parts or surface habs, you will need MK first. Machinery is used very slowly, and the machinery shipped in the parts is usually sufficient until you can make it on your own.

My process is, generally:

  1. Send Hab/ISRU space station with initial Kerbals,  mining lander and large MK Kontainer.
  2. Land Kontainer at base site
  3. Find nice ore locations and start making round trips to the surface to fill your empty space station tanks with fuel.
  4. Next launch cycle, send the Assembly building that is capable of making SP and Machinery. Inflate everything you need.
  5. Use EPL to make a facility to manufacture MK and larger Hab bases. If there is any MK left over from the container, start making Machinery (I don't use EPL, I would fly both assembly and MK separately). At some point, your MK factory will replenish the MK used from the Kontainer and you are good.

 

But parts manufactured with EPL will be built without machinery, right? So I'll need machinery in place to fill them up. As for Ranger+MK, isn't the total weight similar to Tundra parts? I guess it makes a difference for building in situ, though - instead of building a large Tundra part with EPL, you can just create Ranger parts with OSE workshop and deploy them as needed, as long as you already have MK at hand.

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38 minutes ago, juanml82 said:

But parts manufactured with EPL will be built without machinery, right? So I'll need machinery in place to fill them up. As for Ranger+MK, isn't the total weight similar to Tundra parts? I guess it makes a difference for building in situ, though - instead of building a large Tundra part with EPL, you can just create Ranger parts with OSE workshop and deploy them as needed, as long as you already have MK at hand.

You only need MKs and SPs, but if you can make both you may as well make machinery to - you don't want to come on one day to find all your machines needing a shipment of machinery!

GC has been updated - would put a PR on Github to update the dll but my internet is having a bad day today

Edited by TDplay
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2 minutes ago, TDplay said:

You only need MKs and SPs, but if you can make both you may as well make machinery to - you don't want to come on one day to find all your machines needing a shipment of machinery!

Right, and if I can make both, I pretty much have the base already set up, which is why I deleted the patch to make EPL use mk and sp and returned it to use rocket parts.

Sending an assembly plant plus the refiners plus the mining gear is heavy already

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13 minutes ago, juanml82 said:

Right, and if I can make both, I pretty much have the base already set up, which is why I deleted the patch to make EPL use mk and sp and returned it to use rocket parts.

Sending an assembly plant plus the refiners plus the mining gear is heavy already

The reason it's really heavy-duty is the idea that you are meant to use lotsa launches to self-sufficiency. In career, SSTOs will be your saviour. Cutting out the SPs and MKs is a huge step toward the "land a rocket and call it a day" style of kolonisation, which is what RD is trying to steer away from.

MKs are not hard and are a MASSIVE step to self-sufficiency - once you have MKs, you only need to ship in SPs (and in rather small amounts). You only need Substrate, Minerals and Metal Ore - dig them up and get them to base and boom - you've all the raw mats, you just need 3 smelters and a workshop, lo and behold MKs and a LOT less needed shipments.

SPs are very easy to ship in as they are needed in VERY tiny amounts. One Flat Kontainer should last a while and is easy to land. However, it's hard to set up self-sufficient bases to make them. You need a GIANT (3.75m) workshop and have Silicon (silicates) and Refined Exotics (exoticminerals i think).

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Hopping in because @TDplay hit the nail on the head :wink:

The idea with MK's is that you launch very light infrastructure (just the important bits) and build out most of what you need in-situ.  And yep, by the time you get all of that rolling, you can also do matkits/machinery for building and setting up stuff with GC.

You can also split your launches and toss several smaller rockets with MatKit shipments, or even pre-deploy lots of MatKits, then send the base later.  

The entire gameplay mechanic is about doing things in stages and slowly moving towards self sufficiency, not trying to do the whole thing in one go in a single launch.  It's also a lot more enjoyable IMO - the journey after all is usually the best part.

It's also why I fundamentally disagree with how EL does things... dropping a single drill and a converter and rockets magically appear feels super sketchy to me, which is why MKS bundles GC.  Now you folks are free to do whatever you want in your own games, but there is in fact a method to the madness :)

- Explore / Prospect for water/fertilizer analogues
- Send up bundles of MatKits/SpecParts for your initial base
- Set up life support and hab 
- Explore / Prospect for substrate/Minerals/MetallicOre
- Send up more bundles of MatKits/SpecParts for mining ops
- Set up mining/refining base (using those pre-deployed matkits)
- Start making you own MatKits/Machinery
- Set up more advanced assembly plants, start making more SpecParts/MatKits/Machinery
- Use OrbLog to send these finished goods to an orbital station, and ship out to new colony locations from a more economic gravity well

Now - things are going to get super interesting once GC has In-Situ DIYKits/Orbital DIYKits, at which point, you get to add a few more steps (though you could use EL for the orbital steps for now)

- Use OrbLog to get your MatKits/Machinery/SpecParts/Fuel/Supplies/Etc. to an orbital platform or ground base
- Build more stuff to explore more areas on the same planet, or venture out!
- ???
- Profit!

 

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Just now, RoverDude said:

It's also why I fundamentally disagree with how EL does things... dropping a single drill and a converter and rockets magically appear feels super sketchy to me, which is why MKS bundles GC.  Now you folks are free to do whatever you want in your own games, but there is in fact a method to the madness :)

It's also why when I submitted the PR moving the EL patches to PatchManager, I set the recipe patch to be active by default.

If you're building out a base, I find building using DIY kits and MK during early stages easy, and reasonable.  Later on EL gives you flexibility and allows you to build out complex things that don't fit will in DIY kits or to build without having to ship from Kerbin - but you have to deal with the production chain to SP (and yes, Machinery if the part uses that).  So it works quite well for initial infrastructure to be built via GC, and later expansion to be built via EL, in my opinion.  (Though there is still some mismatch between the two - Notably EL builds about an order of magnitude faster than GC, and that really should be the other way around.)  Building using EL and the included recipes will require fairly large supplies of SP, so you have plenty of incentive to stick to using GC while building out - SP are hard to ship, after all.

(Not trying to change RoverDude's opinion here - he ships the patches, and things work fine as is.  But wanted to add a further point to the overall discussion.)

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2 minutes ago, ObiVanDamme said:

@RoverDude did you assist haemimont games in making surviving mars? The buildings except for the domes sound very familiar and the complete economy system with metal, rare metal, machine parts, polymere etc is more or less a copy of what you invented for MKS.

The parts in SM are presumably based off the same IRL concepts MKS takes its inspiration from.

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27 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

The parts in SM are presumably based off the same IRL concepts MKS takes its inspiration from.

Yeah, I know that SM tries to mix RL tech with near future concepts and a little bit of sci fi. I just ask because they chose the same layer of abstraction. 

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1 hour ago, ObiVanDamme said:

@RoverDude did you assist haemimont games in making surviving mars? The buildings except for the domes sound very familiar and the complete economy system with metal, rare metal, machine parts, polymere etc is more or less a copy of what you invented for MKS.

No involvement whatsoever, never even played the game tbh

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45 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

No involvement whatsoever, never even played the game tbh

You should. It is like playing with your mod and without rockets launching. I came back to KSP after a year just because I played it and wanted to start a new MKS playthrough

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K, so, recognise this thing?

Y'know, my Logistics Rover?

nffo2d.png

Now GC is updated to 1.4 (thanks allista :D) I could get the GC update and build my Logistics Rover in-situ. Seems to be tolerable on Minmus. Yup, I'm crazy, rovers on Minmus. Hey, gotta pay respect to RoverDude!

8xq78m.png

Jeb looking out at the ISRU section of my Minbase. Currently capable of in-situ creation of Supplies, and in-situ MKs are coming soon. Just need to land a Logistic Module - I don't have Substrate where I landed for chem/poly, don't remember which needs it :/

Either way, I do still love the mod's design. Now I'm REALLY into it, I'm really having fun. More fun than when my rocket to deliver the module flies apart because I forgot to install Kerbal Joint Reinforcement :wink:

4 hours ago, RoverDude said:

In-Situ DIYKits/Orbital DIYKits

Well, guess I got a nice thing outta the horrors of Minmus' low G that causes Rovers to get sudden pyromaniacal interests - ISRU DIY kits will be great, as launching from Minmus is a massive dV saving from launching from Kerbin as Minmus has tiny gravity and LITERALLY AT THE SOI EDGE. ~4,000 m/s to leave Kerbin SOI will drop to ~100! I plan to use my Kolony as a refuel outpost for interplanetary missions, to ease off the huge dV requirements, and ISRU and Orbital DIY Kits are MASSIVE steps toward this easing, even though it's plenty easy enough to get DIY Kits to land near my Kolony. I knew the Minbase would pay off! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD :D 

Edited by TDplay
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silly question incoming:

It seems only piloted logistics modules connected to a vessel have the ability to push to PW atm. Did the planetary warehouse functionality changed lately?

If yes .. I vote for an additional planetary-only functionality for resource distributers with 2km range :)

Edited by LatiMacciato
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3 hours ago, TDplay said:

K, so, recognise this thing?

Y'know, my Logistics Rover?

nffo2d.png

Now GC is updated to 1.4 (thanks allista :D) I could get the GC update and build my Logistics Rover in-situ. Seems to be tolerable on Minmus. Yup, I'm crazy, rovers on Minmus. Hey, gotta pay respect to RoverDude!

8xq78m.png

Jeb looking out at the ISRU section of my Minbase. Currently capable of in-situ creation of Supplies, and in-situ MKs are coming soon. Just need to land a Logistic Module - I don't have Substrate where I landed for chem/poly, don't remember which needs it :/

Either way, I do still love the mod's design. Now I'm REALLY into it, I'm really having fun. More fun than when my rocket to deliver the module flies apart because I forgot to install Kerbal Joint Reinforcement :wink:

Well, guess I got a nice thing outta the horrors of Minmus' low G that causes Rovers to get sudden pyromaniacal interests - ISRU DIY kits will be great, as launching from Minmus is a massive dV saving from launching from Kerbin as Minmus has tiny gravity and LITERALLY AT THE SOI EDGE. ~4,000 m/s to leave Kerbin SOI will drop to ~100! I plan to use my Kolony as a refuel outpost for interplanetary missions, to ease off the huge dV requirements, and ISRU and Orbital DIY Kits are MASSIVE steps toward this easing, even though it's plenty easy enough to get DIY Kits to land near my Kolony. I knew the Minbase would pay off! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD :D 

But launching from Minmus you miss Kerbin's Oberth effect. On top, you may miss the launch window entirely due the long orbital periods. It's best to drop from Minmus to a highly elliptical Kerbin orbit making sure your Kerbing Pe is at the right moment to burn towards your target. It's easier to do that from the Mun.

That way, your Ap is already either the near Kerbin's SOI (Minmus) or within the 100-200 m/a range (the Mun), you start with tanks nearly full and you take advantage of Kerbin's Oberth effect

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11 hours ago, juanml82 said:

But launching from Minmus you miss Kerbin's Oberth effect. On top, you may miss the launch window entirely due the long orbital periods. It's best to drop from Minmus to a highly elliptical Kerbin orbit making sure your Kerbing Pe is at the right moment to burn towards your target. It's easier to do that from the Mun.

Absolutely spot on!
Unless you are working with ion drives then do this every time. Work out your ejection angle well before the transfer window opens and set up your Pe for the elliptical orbit in advance.

Half the benefit of building stuff out on the moons comes from taking advantage of your starting position in the gravity well and the Oberth effect. My impression is that KSP works all the physics correctly for this. First you gain in kinetic energy from the fall through Kerbin's gravity well from an Ap near the moon's orbit down to the low Kerbin orbit Pe and then you gain yet again from the greater kinetic energy imparted for a given amount of thrust when applied at the point/moment of highest velocity (i.e. the Oberth effect). In fact, done right, you can eject a big mass on a Hohmann transfer orbit to Duna with relatively little fuel.

Actually, on second thoughts I am wrong in what I say above because you will slow down again (i.e. lose kinetic energy) as you climb back up out of Kerbin's gravity well so the only real benefit comes from the maximisation of the use of the Oberth effect. Nevertheless, the roller coaster ride is a lot of fun to execute and must be done!

Edited by Kaa253
second thoughts
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