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[1.11.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)


RoverDude
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2 minutes ago, cactuscrazez said:

Hmmm im still not 100% sure I get what WOLF is.  Does it let you gather resources and convert them in the background without actually putting a physical object down? That sounds immensely useful if thats the case. 

Well, you have to place modules in place, but after that they disappear (integrated in your WOLF depot)  so they don't load your system with complicated bases.

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12 minutes ago, Tacombel said:

Well, you have to place modules in place, but after that they disappear (integrated in your WOLF depot)  so they don't load your system with complicated bases.

Ah that makes more sense. I knew it couldnt have been as simple as buying the parts or something like that. 

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Hello.
I am very excited about WOLF. There are 2 questions.

1.
WOLF doesn't seem to have an Enriched Uranium chain, do you have any plans to include it in WOLF in the future?
My new Minmus base now is not sustainable with various hoppers alone, so I have installed MKS Uraninite drills and Tundra Nuclear fuel Plants. (The image shows the new Minmus base under construction.)
We also need nuclear fuel to load into the vessel built locally.
I think it difficult to replace everything with fuel cells.

https://imgur.com/a/ynkwgP6

2.
I first started by connecting the low efficiency MHU-100 harvester to the depot.
Due to the limited resources available, I later tried to switch to the more efficient MHU-500, but I didn't know how to remove the equipment from the depot, so I removed the production capacity from the .sfs file.
Do you have a plan for any functions to remove connected equipment (production capacity) from the depot?

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37 minutes ago, Yomin said:

I first started by connecting the low efficiency MHU-100 harvester to the depot.
Due to the limited resources available, I later tried to switch to the more efficient MHU-500, but I didn't know how to remove the equipment from the depot, so I removed the production capacity from the .sfs file.
Do you have a plan for any functions to remove connected equipment (production capacity) from the depot?

There is no history on what was or was not added to a WOLF biome, just the results. (as you saw in the save file)

As such it is not feasible to 'remove' parts automatically.  The best option is to edit the save file like you did when a mistake has been made and you cannot revert it by using an older save file.

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There are no plans to allow for the removal of WOLF components since that would put us back in the world of large save files :)   Generally it's *really* hard to paint yourself into a permanent corner WRT WOLF infrastructure.

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5 hours ago, RoverDude said:

There are no plans to allow for the removal of WOLF components since that would put us back in the world of large save files :)   Generally it's *really* hard to paint yourself into a permanent corner WRT WOLF infrastructure.

So the simplest solution would be just to add the larger harvester to the biome and live with excess production, right?

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5 hours ago, Brigadier said:

So the simplest solution would be just to add the larger harvester to the biome and live with excess production, right?

Correct.  Note too that the large harvester has the same resource cost as the small one, but with much better output

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Good afternoon!

21 hours ago, Terwin said:

There is no history on what was or was not added to a WOLF biome, just the results. (as you saw in the save file)

As such it is not feasible to 'remove' parts automatically.  The best option is to edit the save file like you did when a mistake has been made and you cannot revert it by using an older save file.

 

13 hours ago, RoverDude said:

There are no plans to allow for the removal of WOLF components since that would put us back in the world of large save files :)   Generally it's *really* hard to paint yourself into a permanent corner WRT WOLF infrastructure.

OK, got it. Thank you for your answer.

I preface that English is unfamiliar.

The last sentence of RoverDude may not have been understood exactly by me, but I think it probably says that it contradicts the purpose of WOLF.

I understood that the absence of equipment history was due to WOLF's purpose of reducing the number of parts. However, I thought it would be possible to delete the output value with only Harvestable resources. For example, allow only the Harvestable resource "Harvested" to be zero.
Partial disposal of mining equipment.

However, with the exception of MHU-100, Harvestable resources cannot be mined by Harvester alone. I think that if the production process is unknown and some deletions are allowed, the rules will be sloppy.
For example, the desire to use the surplus capacity of PDUs may come from the opening of Pandora's box.

If so, I understand the need to rule that the connection of equipment to the depot is irreversible.

I'm convinced that players only need to plan their equipment carefully and make one-time allowed capital investments carefully.

 

By the way, what about Nuclear Fuel?
I understand that in reality Nuclear fuel is treated differently from other resources.
However, I've read somewhere that Orbital Logistics will be deprecated in the future, so I'm wondering if I'll be delivering it from the ground to the orbital station myself.
However, even so, the frequency is low, so I think it's okay.

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11 hours ago, Yomin said:

I understood that the absence of equipment history was due to WOLF's purpose of reducing the number of parts. However, I thought it would be possible to delete the output value with only Harvestable resources. For example, allow only the Harvestable resource "Harvested" to be zero.
Partial disposal of mining equipment.

Scenario: 

You are harvesting 100 units of rare metals, and all of them are being used or transferred to another depot.

Available is already set to zero, so setting harvested to zero means you can now harvest another 100 rare metals at this depot, even though they are actually all in use elsewhere.

Or perhaps you have 40 available, how does WOLF know if you used the low efficiency harvesters and 40 available represents 100% of the harvest and available should be set back to 100, or if you are using 60% of the harvest and the available should be set back to 40?

11 hours ago, Yomin said:

However, I've read somewhere that Orbital Logistics will be deprecated in the future, so I'm wondering if I'll be delivering it from the ground to the orbital station myself.
However, even so, the frequency is low, so I think it's okay.

Take a look at Routes in WOLF.

This will allow you to transfer resource points between biomes(including orbital or different planets) once you have set up a transport route.

Then, just like elsewhere, if you want to pullout available resources, you just use a hopper.

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27 minutes ago, FabioofSpace said:

I have a question, how does one use the EVA construction mode to attach a flexotube to parts of your base?

I haven't tried but I'd have to guess it may not work currently.  The flexotube's are basically KAS pipes (requiring the KAS mod).  I'm not sure the KAS parts work with stock inventory or stock construction and would require the KIS mod to function.

Both of which are being depricated FYI.

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11 hours ago, Terwin said:

cenario: 

You are harvesting 100 units of rare metals, and all of them are being used or transferred to another depot.

Available is already set to zero, so setting harvested to zero means you can now harvest another 100 rare metals at this depot, even though they are actually all in use elsewhere.

Or perhaps you have 40 available, how does WOLF know if you used the low efficiency harvesters and 40 available represents 100% of the harvest and available should be set back to 100, or if you are using 60% of the harvest and the available should be set back to 40?

As you say, "harvested" cannot be removed consistently.

11 hours ago, Terwin said:

Take a look at Routes in WOLF.

This will allow you to transfer resource points between biomes(including orbital or different planets) once you have set up a transport route.

Then, just like elsewhere, if you want to pullout available resources, you just use a hopper.

I intend to read most of the WOLF documentation on Github etc., but I may have missed it.
WOLF doesn't have Uraninite and Enriched Uranium Hoppers, so I don't think it can be used to transport nuclear fuel.

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What resources should I be looking for when starting my first base? Im going to put it on Minmus and have it serve as a refueling depot.  Ill need ore of course for fuel but what else is important for life support, manufacturing, refining etc?  I would eventually like it to be near self sufficient.

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Hello, I would like to know whether you would generally advise against the use of Flexotubes, since it only works with the outdated KAS / KIS system?
This is a painful experience for beginners, as flexotubes seem very tempting, especially at the beginning.
With me and what I've read with many others, this part is very often crazy.
The only example files in the wiki are outdated and unfortunately use exactly these flexotubes.
Or does someone have new sample files? :)

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28 minutes ago, cactuscrazez said:

What resources should I be looking for when starting my first base? Im going to put it on Minmus and have it serve as a refueling depot.  Ill need ore of course for fuel but what else is important for life support, manufacturing, refining etc?  I would eventually like it to be near self sufficient.

Until you have WOLF set up, there's nothing wrong with shipping in fertilizer and using an ag module.   By the time you build out everything, it may make more sense to do it via WOLF.

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6 hours ago, RoverDude said:

Until you have WOLF set up, there's nothing wrong with shipping in fertilizer and using an ag module.   By the time you build out everything, it may make more sense to do it via WOLF.

Yeah using WOLF would make more sense in the long run. Ill probably end up just making a base that can keep kerbals alive for a little while. 

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9 hours ago, cactuscrazez said:

Yeah using WOLF would make more sense in the long run. Ill probably end up just making a base that can keep kerbals alive for a little while. 

While you are in kerbin SOI it is easy to keep your base supplied from Kerbin. Just add some recyclers and do the math for fertilizer. A single 3.75 container can last years.

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So a few things.  There's a new Constellation pre-release out.  Let me emphasize PRE-RELEASE.  There are white parts.  There are bees.  BUT, it's what I am using in my save, and it's super current.

It has a few big changes to Konstruction like shipyards, the new WOLF-Paks, the updated and textured Packrat, and also the brand new USI science parts. 

image.pngimage.png

 

LINKY:  https://github.com/BobPalmer/USI_Constellation/releases/tag/2021.03.12.01

 

 

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2 hours ago, RoverDude said:

  There are bees. 

 

 

A bee for you: The new ISRU Experiment (yellow box) is impossible to select after placing, both in the editor and after launch.

The new science is AWESOME, but the flavor text for them is um... bland. I'd be willing to write some experiment reports if you are interested, just need some guidance on how serious/whimsical and in/out of universe you would like them.

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7 minutes ago, Kerbals_of_Steel said:

A bee for you: The new ISRU Experiment (yellow box) is impossible to select after placing, both in the editor and after launch.

The new science is AWESOME, but the flavor text for them is um... bland. I'd be willing to write some experiment reports if you are interested, just need some guidance on how serious/whimsical and in/out of universe you would like them.

I would absolutely be interested in flavor text :)  And if you are volunteering, then I will let you go with your creative muse.

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Couple of bees and a couple observations so far (constellation pre-release you just posted) - for what they're worth. Note: not on a clean install! But mods are fairly common ones.

BEE 1: Gave the Konstructor a whirl - created a craft with a bunch of preloaded resources, the big orbital shipyard, command pod, and the ground shipyard test part. If you launch from VAB, then build a craft (such as the Jumping Flea), the craft will be constructed successfully, then detached from the ground shipyard test part. In my case, I put the ground shipyard test part on the side of the craft and built from there, so the flea fell off after completion. After completion, active vessel switches to the one you just built; if you then switch back to the constructor vessel, you can't select the same craft to build a second time unless you first select a different one. If you try to select the same craft (e.g. jumping flea again), the select ship dialog will pop up, you can pick it, but nothing happens when you confirm. If you first select a different craft, then it seems you can pick the just-built craft and build it again.

BEE 2: When picking crafts in the "Select a Ship" dialog,  an odd behavior if you pick an autosaved ship (in my case, specifically the autosaved version of the konstruction ship I launched to test it) - picking a not-autosaved ship gives a solid gray square as a preview, but picking an autosaved one gives this (looks like an image with MK-33 mod parts, maybe...?):

WwtisYS.png

BEE 3: Under circumstances I don't understand, building a ship in orbit using the KS-500-O (big one?) will cause the built vessel to be propelled at very high speeds away from the vessel that built it (also causes forces on the vessel that built it). First time I tried to build in orbit with a very simple station, no problem - the built craft poofed into existence maybe ~20 or 30 meters from the construction station.  NOTE: Not a clean install, but not a massive heap of mods either.

Second time I tried (new station craft, new save), I had a bunch of other parts (containers, girders, whatever) attached radially to the station and also a bunch attached to the KS-500-O, and the built craft goes flying off when finalized... Third time I tried (same station craft & save as second try), the construction station was instantly obliterated without any explosions (it just vanished), and rather than flying off into the distance, the built vessel remained (apparently) fixed in place where the station used to be, kind of ... wobbling. Maybe a conflict with Kopernicus... Log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vpiwdsejg3vgcni/KSPlog_newMKSwithKopernicusmaybe.log?dl=0

OBSERVATIONs: Mostly stuff that I think would be nice for the player if it's not already planned, essentially --

  1. Would be really handy to be able to transfer resources (fuel, EC, whatever) and crew to a built craft before releasing it/finalizing it/making it pop into existence
  2. Building is instant; will construction take time or can it be made to take time? Just curious, doesn't really matter one way or the other.
  3. It would also be handy to keep the built craft attached (somehow) to the construction station/pad until released, à la EL
  4. Maybe also handy to have a specific point on the construction station (the end of an arm that extends from it? some selectable docking port on the vessel? a stack node like the ground shipyard test seems to use?) where the built craft will appear...

EDIT again: Random bee #5 having (I guess?) to do with the Light Globe's drag cube or something:

Spoiler

[LOG 20:02:43.911] PartLoader: Part 'UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/Parts/LightGlobe/MKS_LightGlobe' has no database record. Creating.
[LOG 20:02:43.911] [DragCubeSystem]: Drag cubes not found or cannot be read for part Part. Generating New drag cubes.
[LOG 20:02:43.915] DragCubeSystem: Creating drag cubes for part 'MKS.LightGlobe'
[EXC 20:02:43.916] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    ModuleDeployablePart.AssumeDragCubePosition (System.String name) (at <2afc64dea36946459d4707808bdac511>:0)
    DragCubeSystem+<RenderDragCubes>d__34.MoveNext () (at <2afc64dea36946459d4707808bdac511>:0)
    UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine.InvokeMoveNext (System.Collections.IEnumerator enumerator, System.IntPtr returnValueAddress) (at <5aeafee3fea24f37abd1315553f2cfa6>:0)
    UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
    ModuleManager.UnityLogHandle.InterceptLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
    KSPe.Util.Log.UnityLogDecorator:UnityEngine.ILogHandler.LogException(Exception, Object)
    UnityEngine.MonoBehaviour:StartCoroutine(IEnumerator)
    <RenderDragCubesCoroutine>d__31:MoveNext()
    UnityEngine.MonoBehaviour:StartCoroutine(IEnumerator)
    <SetupDragCubeCoroutine>d__46:MoveNext()
    UnityEngine.MonoBehaviour:StartCoroutine(IEnumerator)
    <CompileParts>d__56:MoveNext()
    UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine:InvokeMoveNext(IEnumerator, IntPtr)
[LOG 20:02:43.926] PartLoader: Compiling Part 'UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/Parts/MKS_Drill_01/MKS_Drill_01'

EDIT AGAIN: A log from a very modded install with some WOLF exceptions -- https://www.dropbox.com/s/yww8z46w7xp172t/KSPLog_WOLFexceptions.log?dl=0

Edited by AccidentalDisassembly
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