[1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[mhoram]

3 hours ago, Guolin said:

1) How do I add more volume to it? I have another container attached to the same vessel with 2500L of storage, but it says my KonFabricator can only create parts with 1200L volume max.

Have a look here, where RoverDude explains the design:

You would need to change the value 1200 in the config files.

3 hours ago, Guolin said:

2) How do I get Alloys? Is the only way to recycle other parts containing Alloys?

They can also be made in the "MKS 'Tundra' Assembly Plant", "MKS 'Atlas' Factory" and "WOLF Manufacturing Hopper" via the according recipes.

[JamesonKerbal]

On 8/16/2022 at 4:24 AM, Qball said:

I have landed a Harvesting hopper on the crater,

The hoppers are used to turn WOLF abundance into MKS resources. WOLF abundance are the numbers in the "Depot" pane of the WOLF Dashboard, MKS resources are the things that fill up cargo containers.

If you haven't deployed any WOLF harvesters, there will be no WOLF abundance to extract using the hopper.

What you'll need to do is

• ensure that the depot is established by dropping a WOLF Depot Module there and selecting "Establish Depot" from the Part Action Window (right-click menu)
• once the depot is established, land a spacecraft you have designed earlier (we'll get to earlier later) onto that biome and select "Connect to Depot" from the PAW
• once that depot is established to extract the raw materials and turn them into what you wanted, only then can you connect the Hopper to the depot to convert WOLF abundance into MKS resources.

To design the spacecraft you'll need to open up the SPH or VAB, select the WOLF dashboard and switch to the "Planner" view. Select the depot of interest from the drop-down list at the top, and start building.

If you only want to extract a small amount of Ore, you can just use a WOLF Bulk Harvester module, which doesn't need any other support due to the WOLF Depot module providing 5 power required to run the Bulk Harvester. Also Ore is consumed as-is in MKS, it doesn't need to be refined. If you want to extract more Ore, you're going to suddenly find that you need more power, which means you need a Kolonist to run that power plant, which means you need life support and habitation, which means you need a source of food, water and oxygen, and then you need 'maintenance' which then means you need MaterialKits, which means … it's almost a never-ending story.

Check out the walkthrough WIP (I will be working through this over the next few days to have something published in the USI wiki Real Soon Now™): https://github.com/MaraRinn/WOLF-Walkthrough/blob/development/Walkthrough/wiki_page.md

WOLF is quite complicated the first time you get into it. After the first couple of depots you'll find it's easier to manage than MKS is.

 

[JamesonKerbal]

23 hours ago, Guolin said:

I have a few questions about the KonFabricator:

1) How do I add more volume to it? I have another container attached to the same vessel with 2500L of storage, but it says my KonFabricator can only create parts with 1200L volume max.

One option is to design a spacecraft that has the parts you want and then build that using the KonStructor. That spacecraft will spawn into existence somewhere near your space station (doesn't work for vehicles on the ground). Then you can pull the parts off that new spacecraft as you need them.

23 hours ago, Guolin said:

2) How do I get Alloys? Is the only way to recycle other parts containing Alloys?

To get Alloys you need to check out the MKS Resource Chart and look at which extractors, refineries and fabricators you need. First you need a source of Metallic Ore, then a refinery to produce Metals from that Metallic Ore. Then you need a source of Rare Metals. Then you need an assembly bay or workshop to combine Rare Metals and Metals into Alloys. 

 

[Guolin]

I have both this and CTT installed, but I just noticed that I unlocked a couple of Tundra parts (inflatable storage, 3.75m PDU, 3.75m Pioneer) and WOLF Terminal (3.75m) without having researched Long Term Habitation. Upon investigation I noticed that they are actually missing from the MKS_CTT patch (https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/blob/main/FOR_RELEASE/GameData/UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/Patches/MKS_CTT.cfg). Was this intentional or am I missing something?

[mhoram]

On 8/18/2022 at 6:14 AM, Guolin said:

Upon investigation I noticed that they are actually missing from the MKS_CTT patch

I would venture a guess, that this is an oversight.

I am not using CTT to check myself, but if you tell me, which parts should be unlocked by which research, I could offer to create a config file for you.

[dlrk]

https://imgur.com/a/RW1a8s8

Is this part supposed to be/known to missing a title and description?

[mhoram]

4 hours ago, dlrk said:

Is this part supposed to be/known to missing a title and description?

Are you sure, that you posted a screenshot of the right part, because this part seems to have a title and a description. I am aware that a few other parts are missing titles and descriptions.

[Zmeya]

I've encountered a strange problem, some containers aren't working for me, so far everything I've researched that shows up in the "logistics" tab not only can't hold any resources for me, but can't have it's configuration changed, this is of course excluding the single container that holds part using vanilla's inventory system, the cargo containers under the "payload" tab work as expected as well as some parts from other mods and single configuration containers(eg. the 1.25m life support tank from USI-LS) though. I'd include screenshots and a log if I had a good way to do so.

Edit: Forgot to mention I'm using KSP 1.11.2 and tried updating to the latest version of the mod to fix the problem but it didn't work

Edited September 1, 2022 by Zmeya

[Kerbals_of_Steel]

22 minutes ago, Zmeya said:

I've encountered a strange problem, some containers aren't working for me, so far everything I've researched that shows up in the "logistics" tab not only can't hold any resources for me, but can't have it's configuration changed, this is of course excluding the single container that holds part using vanilla's inventory system, the cargo containers under the "payload" tab work as expected as well as some parts from other mods and single configuration containers(eg. the 1.25m life support tank from USI-LS) though. I'd include screenshots and a log if I had a good way to do so.

Edit: Forgot to mention I'm using KSP 1.11.2 and tried updating to the latest version of the mod to fix the problem but it didn't work

Double check you have CRP and Firespitter installed. Sounds like a dependencies problem.

[Zmeya]

3 hours ago, Kerbals_of_Steel said:

Double check you have CRP and Firespitter installed. Sounds like a dependencies problem.

Not only do I have them but I deleted the old versions before installing the versions packaged with the most recent version of MKS

Cause of problem found, Windows failed to copy all of FireSpitter's files when installing it.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Zmeya

[Ariel Kerman]

Hello everybody, same problem with dependency here:
I was about to download this great mod for 1st time ever, but firespitter seems to be very outdated, im currently on 1.12.2 and is incompatible, anyone else had the same problem?

PD: I honestly didnt read the 460 pages of this thread so if somebody mentioned this before, i apologize in advance.

[mhoram]

54 minutes ago, Ariel Kerman said:

but firespitter seems to be very outdated, im currently on 1.12.2 and is incompatible

Can you please be a bit more specific? Saying that something is incompatible does not help much identifying the problem. Have a look at this post for the best way you can help others to help you.

[Zmeya]

22 hours ago, Ariel Kerman said:

Hello everybody, same problem with dependency here:
I was about to download this great mod for 1st time ever, but firespitter seems to be very outdated, im currently on 1.12.2 and is incompatible, anyone else had the same problem?

PD: I honestly didnt read the 460 pages of this thread so if somebody mentioned this before, i apologize in advance.

Ignore the version FS was made for and actually test if it works, not all mods break from being outdated.

[Guolin]

I'm curious about how to bootstrap an offplanet WOLF base. It seems to me that crew points are required for making anything, which requires life support, which requires MaterialKits, which requires crew points, etc. Now I understand that's why there's the bootstrapping mechanic for Kerbin WOLF bases, but what about offplanet based? Are we really supposed to set up a functional WOLF base back at Kerbin, then do resource transfers via WOLF?

It just seems odd to me because with regular MKS, one could easily bootstrap an offplanet base by sending in Machinery, Supplies, etc. manually to kickstart the processes to make more Machinery. Is there no "anti-hopper" to plug regular resources into WOLF? Or even better yet, I might already have a functional MKS base that produces some amount of Machinery, MaterialKits, etc. It almost seems like a waste to abandon that infra once I unlock WOLF since it won't help kickstart my WOLF production (especially since it seems like the general progression is meant to be MKS bases in early-mid game and slowly phase in WOLF).

But maybe I misunderstood something. Please let me know if I did!

Edited September 5, 2022 by Guolin

[mhoram]

50 minutes ago, Guolin said:

Is there no "anti-hopper" to plug regular resources into WOLF?

No, there isn't. The reason for this is that WOLF can be seen as a everlasting infrastructure. If WOLF would depend on anti-hoppers and physical vessels, it would be necessary to check continuously, if the anti-hoppers were still working. This would contradict the WOLF-"partless"-concept.

53 minutes ago, Guolin said:

especially since it seems like the general progression is meant to be MKS bases in early-mid game and slowly phase in WOLF

In my current playthrough, I started with WOLF-bases for resource generation and fabrication without utilizing physical MKS parts. I see them as two different paths to achieve the same goal, where WOLF has the advantage of not needing lots of physical vessels and parts.

57 minutes ago, Guolin said:

Are we really supposed to set up a functional WOLF base back at Kerbin, then do resource transfers via WOLF?

This is one strategy to make off-world WOLF bases viable. A different strategy would be to generate all required resource on site.

For multiple biomes on a single planetary body you could set up the required life-support infrastructure (Oxygen, Water, MaterialKits, ...) in a single biome and transfer them to other biomes or set up production for them in each biome (in my current playthrough I use Mun-Midlands as a central hub and fabrication biome that connects to the other Mun-biomes and is the only Mun surface-biome that has a Wolf-transport-route to Mun-Orbit).

59 minutes ago, Guolin said:

It seems to me that crew points are required for making anything, which requires life support, which requires MaterialKits, which requires crew points, etc.

There are a few basic functionalities that do not require crew points or maintenance: Harvester, Hopper, Power (low power variant). Anything else requires Crew or Maintenance.

 

Setting up a WOLF-offworld-base requires lots of investment, but the advantage is that the generated resources are available afterwards forever.

In my playthrough I got the feeling that it is easier, to start with small WOLF-bases and expand them with multiple small expansions. Once I got the hang of it, I sent larger base expansions (40-50 WOLF-parts) on single ships for the construction of a Prototypes-fabricator on the Mun.

Now I think, that it is way easier to build WOLF bases than to build physical MKS bases.

[jd284]

9 hours ago, mhoram said:

In my current playthrough, I started with WOLF-bases for resource generation and fabrication without utilizing physical MKS parts. I see them as two different paths to achieve the same goal, where WOLF has the advantage of not needing lots of physical vessels and parts.

[...]

9 hours ago, mhoram said:

Now I think, that it is way easier to build WOLF bases than to build physical MKS bases.

I found it easier to set up small MKS bases first because the individual parts are far more manageable. I play on RSS and the Wolf parts are just monstrous and, because the parts can't be split, they require monstrous launch vehicles, at least until I had on-orbit construction facilities and the transport routes to go with them.

With MKS there are lighter parts available for all functions, they have more manageable form factors, and often you can supply the MK to kit them out separately, that's a huge help with RSS in career mode, where the launch pad limits are a real challenge for getting Wolf parts into orbit until you can afford all the upgrades.

So basically I used MKS to bootstrap my initial manufacturing capabilities, which I then used to get Wolf parts operational. That makes we wish for a "Startup Wolf" style of parts with reduced part diameter, mass and (of course) Wolf throughput. Something like a tenth or a fifth of the capabilities of the existing parts.  Wolf seems to be ideal for high-throughput bases, not so much for initial bootstrapping. I'm not sure if the wolf resource numbers have to be integer, or if I could create smaller 1.25m parts with 1/10th the corresponding Wolf numbers. Or possibly just make some of them compatible with TweakScale...

[Guolin]

9 hours ago, mhoram said:

For multiple biomes on a single planetary body you could set up the required life-support infrastructure (Oxygen, Water, MaterialKits, ...) in a single biome and transfer them to other biomes or set up production for them in each biome (in my current playthrough I use Mun-Midlands as a central hub and fabrication biome that connects to the other Mun-biomes and is the only Mun surface-biome that has a Wolf-transport-route to Mun-Orbit).

There are a few basic functionalities that do not require crew points or maintenance: Harvester, Hopper, Power (low power variant). Anything else requires Crew or Maintenance.

Yeah that makes sense. But I don't see how you can create MaterialKits in the first place without having the life-support infra, since it requires Biologists crews to create Chemicals and Polymers for example, creating a chicken-and-egg problem. Or am I allowed to still "install" MaterialKit production even if it would take me negative on Chemicals and Polymers, and then "install" Chemicals and Polymers production now that I can create life-support?

[mhoram]

 

2 hours ago, jd284 said:

I found it easier to set up small MKS bases first because the individual parts are far more manageable.

2 hours ago, jd284 said:

So basically I used MKS to bootstrap my initial manufacturing capabilities, which I then used to get Wolf parts operational.

This sounds also like a good strategy.

2 hours ago, jd284 said:

I play on RSS and the Wolf parts are just monstrous and, because the parts can't be split, they require monstrous launch vehicles

Yes, RSS is a different kind of beast. I play on the stock-solar-system. Did you think about a ModuleManager patch to reduce the mass of these Wolf parts to fit your requirements?

2 hours ago, jd284 said:

I'm not sure if the wolf resource numbers have to be integer, or if I could create smaller 1.25m parts with 1/10th the corresponding Wolf numbers

They are integers. This makes it difficult to scale them to smaller numbers.

2 hours ago, jd284 said:

That makes we wish for a "Startup Wolf" style of parts with reduced part diameter, mass and (of course) Wolf throughput

It would be great to have such a simplified "Wolf Startup"-System of any kind, but to be honest, I have no idea how that could look like with the integer numbers for resources.

1 hour ago, Guolin said:

Or am I allowed to still "install" MaterialKit production even if it would take me negative on Chemicals and Polymers

No, that is not allowed.

 

In order to setup a basic WOLF-base consisting of Habitation, LifeSupport, Power and Maintenance one needs a few Kerbals and:

• 1 Food
• 3 MaterialKits
• 1 Oxygen
• 5 Water

So I imported these resources via a transport route Kerbin KSC -> KerbinOrbit -> MunOrbit -> MunMidlands.

 

If these 4 WOLF-parts were too massive, one could start with Habitation+LifeSupport and go on in a second launch with Power+Maintenance.

With additional launches, I extended the production capabilities of my Mun biomes and reduced the transport routes until I did no longer need to import resources from Kerbin to the Mun.

The trick is to identify, which parts of a setup can be deployed without causing dependency problems. The WOLF Dashboard Planner helps with that, but one has to experiment a bit in order to find fitting combinations that do not violate dependencies. After building a few bases, I got the hang of it.

The dependencies are something like Harvester -> Extractor -> Agriculture&Bioreactor&Refinery -> Fabricator. So by beginning with deploying Harvesters, one can keep the ship-size small.

Edited September 5, 2022 by mhoram
corrected Refinery, added ModuleManager idea

[JamesonKerbal]

18 hours ago, Guolin said:

I'm curious about how to bootstrap an offplanet WOLF base. It seems to me that crew points are required for making anything, which requires life support, which requires MaterialKits, which requires crew points, etc.

The way I've handled bootstrapping is to send a small amount of Food, Oxygen and Water (5 of each) to orbit around the new body, then use those resources to fill in for life support requirements until local life support can be brought online.

So for example:

1. Import life support abundance (Food, Oxygen, Water)
2. Find a biome which can support local production of MaterialKits (metal ore, substrate, minerals) and use the imported life support to establish that base
3. Find a biome which can produce life support materials given the import of Material Kits from that first depot, transfer the material kits as required
4. Now send the life support to the first base and cancel the import of that abundance, making the local depots more-or-less self-sufficient

You can also go the other way around:

1. Import Material Kits
2. Find a biome which can support local production of life support materials (Food, Water, Oxygen) and establish a life support base with the material kits providing the maintenance materials
3. Find a biome that can produce Material Kits given the exports of life support materials from this base
4. Now send the material kits exported from that second biome depot to the life support depot

It's also worth noting that deploying a WOLF Depot Module will bootstrap you with 5 Power for that biome depot. You can run a single WOLF Bulk Harvester 500 on that, and use those resources elsewhere using WOLF Routes. So if your original biome can support Material Kits, Fertiliser and Food production but needs water imports, you can set up some remote depots with Water or Hydrates resources and import those to the main depot to be processed into water and oxygen. Some times it's easier to import the life support resources and export a refined resource like metals or food.

I've built a WOLF Depot Ready Reckoner spreadsheet (Libre Office ODS file) which might help: https://github.com/MaraRinn/WOLF-Walkthrough/tree/development/Walkthrough. Once it's a bit more polished I'll make sure to export it to an Excel format. With that ready reckoner you can type in the resource abundance of a biome and the spreadsheet will tell you what you can build there, and you can look at what you might import a little bit of in order to allow production of other materials locally.

[Nicky21]

I have a medical ship. I have a 3.75 medical bay, 800 colony supplies, a medic, 2 scientists, and some kerbals turned tourists in the med bay. I started the med bay, waited for a few hundred days, but the tourists do not revert to their original jobs. 

What could be wrong. How can i make this kind of ship work ?

Edited September 8, 2022 by Nicky21

[JamesonKerbal]

On 9/9/2022 at 5:37 AM, Nicky21 said:

How can i make this kind of ship work ?

Just so you don't lose hope: I'm going to try to replicate your issue and find an answer over the next couple of days.

First attempt: built a medical ship with 3.75 medical bay, 1200 colony supplies, 1 scientist. Rendezvoused my engineer and pilot who have  reverted to Tourists. As soon as I dock the engineer's ship, the Engineer and Pilot return to duty (perhaps because of the extra habitation in the Medical Bay?).

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by JamesonKerbal

[Nicky21]

The extra habitation will always revert them back, but my guys were far gone and the ship didn't have as much hab as the starbase they were on. 

A note: on the usi panel I can see the home timer increasing for the tourists in the medbay, so i know that the med bay is not using up colony supplies for nothing, but they still don't get "healed".

 

Thank you for looking into it!

[mhoram]

@Nicky21 I also tried and failed to replicate this issue. If you would be willing to send me your savegame in a PM, I could attempt to debug this. Already located the part of the source code responsible for healing, but found no obvious explanation for your problem there.

 

[mhoram]

@Nicky21 I believe, that I was able to replicate your issue.

Can you please check, if this is the bug, you are experiencing? https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/USI-LS/issues/314

[Nicky21]

@hmoram  This issue is set to pop up again; I will send you the save as soon as i see it again and the ksl log, but be aware i am running a million mods....