Jump to content

[1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)


RoverDude
 Share

Recommended Posts

Just more testing on the issue. Here, you can see, after 17 years of real MET time, the Hab number in location 2 hasn't moved an inch past the 55 years of hab it started with now that I've switched all of the converters to Kerbitat 3.75s.

PUMMBAw.png

Seems that Kerbitat's work fine, the converters affected are the Ranger line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just have a quick question. I'm trying to attach a duna pioneer module on the karibou base to an anchor hub on the munar surface. I have a flex tube on both ends. When I join the tubes the tube on the duna module kind of falls off and stays attached to the anchor hub while the duna module starts to float away like its in zero g. What can I do to fix this? Everything is attached via nodes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, usmc3891 said:

I just have a quick question. I'm trying to attach a duna pioneer module on the karibou base to an anchor hub on the munar surface. I have a flex tube on both ends. When I join the tubes the tube on the duna module kind of falls off and stays attached to the anchor hub while the duna module starts to float away like its in zero g. What can I do to fix this? Everything is attached via nodes.

Flex tubes are kraken bait.

The recommended approach is disconnected bases(supported by MKS) which are supported by WOLF support bases.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Terwin said:

Flex tubes are kraken bait.

The recommended approach is disconnected bases(supported by MKS) which are supported by WOLF support bases.

I'll have to see what I can work out then. This is the first module on the mun for me. I should be able to haul one of the inflatable storage modules to a node from inventory.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm confused about drills and efficiencies.

I searched the thread and found a user from a while ago that was using mulitple drills and noticed that if all bays were drilling versus just one of the bays drilling, his temperature was not manageable and this was not reflected in what the parts were saying for output. Roverdude replied this was normal and said that multiple bays could be used but the output will remain the same depending on how you want to split it.

The wiki says this on Functions:

Quote

For example, if an Industrial Refinery has one bay set to Silicon and two set to Metals, it will have a bay multiplier of 1 for Silicon and 2 for Metals. This means it will produce double the amount of Metals as it does Silicon.

This seems contrary to what RoverDude mentioned. If the output equal no matter how it's split, then the output would be 0.333+0.666=1.

So, what results in more resources?

5 Drills with 1 bay set to Minerals and only that one bay active

Or 1 Drill with 5 bays active on Minerals.

Thanks for the help!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, rudemario said:

I'm confused about drills and efficiencies.

I searched the thread and found a user from a while ago that was using mulitple drills and noticed that if all bays were drilling versus just one of the bays drilling, his temperature was not manageable and this was not reflected in what the parts were saying for output. Roverdude replied this was normal and said that multiple bays could be used but the output will remain the same depending on how you want to split it.

The wiki says this on Functions:

This seems contrary to what RoverDude mentioned. If the output equal no matter how it's split, then the output would be 0.333+0.666=1.

So, what results in more resources?

5 Drills with 1 bay set to Minerals and only that one bay active

Or 1 Drill with 5 bays active on Minerals.

Thanks for the help!

That's why the newest builds went away from having multiple bays on the drills. Stock thermal management is garbage.

 

KoS

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Kerbals_of_Steel said:

That's why the newest builds went away from having multiple bays on the drills. Stock thermal management is garbage.

 

KoS

So, the most productive drill setup would be 1 drill with 5 bays, but the thermals accidentally and unintentionally limit the performance, meaning 5 drills with 1 bay is more efficient?

Edit: Basically, I'm just curious what the most or more efficient setup is for drills

Edited by rudemario
Clarification
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/18/2021 at 7:32 AM, Kerbals_of_Steel said:

That's why the newest builds went away from having multiple bays on the drills. Stock thermal management is garbage.

 

On 5/18/2021 at 9:33 AM, rudemario said:

So, the most productive drill setup would be 1 drill with 5 bays, but the thermals accidentally and unintentionally limit the performance, meaning 5 drills with 1 bay is more efficient?

Edit: Basically, I'm just curious what the most or more efficient setup is for drills

The answer is, essentially, using the current version that only allows one resource per drill.  You still have to watch out for various bonuses that may increase your drill output, which causes more heat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I'm in the middle of a Let's Play series using MKS and I just made a video explaining all the mods I'm using and why. Thought it might be of some interest to a few people. 

Jump to 11:10  for the discussion of MKS

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Gilph said:

 

The answer is, essentially, using the current version that only allows one resource per drill.  You still have to watch out for various bonuses that may increase your drill output, which causes more heat.

  MKS version v1.3 was the "current version" for 10 months. Does this mean drills were unfunctional for 10 months on the newest version? Based on my testing that doesn't turn out to be the case, which means that's not the answer.

It turns out that Roverdudes comments about the drills are true and are not anywhere on the Functions page on the wiki. It appears that when you activate a second separator on the drill, it increases the thermal output to just the perfect degree to limit yourself to the same resource throughput as before. So if I was mining 9 dirt per second, adding a second separator of dirt will bring me down after the heat builds up to approximately 9~. This was only confusing as this was not mentioned on the wiki. It makes perfect sense that the Drills were previously setup in this way to simply allow you to split throughput between 5 resources by having a bigger drill, but the amount of resource mining is already chosen by how big of a drill you chose for the mission. Simply activating one bay is enough.

This does not appear to be a bug or broken at all. It's just un-intuitive and not mentioned. Drill throughput is chosen by the drill size and adding more separator bays just splits the output between the amount of resources chosen. It just looks like heat goes crazy by accident, when it's a feature as a way to limit throughput.

As to why I'm not using the latest pre-release:

Spoiler

My job only gives me just a few hours some nights to play KSP or any game, that's if nothing else comes up, and I've spent the few hours over the last month slowly learning MKS's components so I can plan out a forward operating base to launch rockets into the EventHorizon mod which adds Interstellar (2014)'s Gargantua system, orbiting a black hole. I've spent many many hours learning the core systems and I don't really have much time, and I've already spent time learning how Extraplanetary Launchpads works, how long it should roughly take to build, how much MaterialKits I would need, how long it would take to mine 150,000 MaterialKits etc for a certain class of ship etc, how hab works, how the ranger stuff interacts compared to the tundra stuff. I don't want to spend another 15 hours over 2 weeks learning how Ground Construction was removed, if Extraplanetary Launchpads even still works with the MaterialKits/SpecializedParts patch, how the new balances to the resource gathering works, how the new WOLF system works, how 1.11's inventory system coincides with KIS/KAS. I prefer KIS/KAS's system but Roverdude deprecated support for KIS/KAS and have to relearn that system and find some other way to tether parts etc given how there isn't much documentation for the new 1.11 MKS system and other issues caused by 1.11, seeing how I'm almost ready to start playing my Gargantua mission after spending the last month learning how everything works and doing tests. It's simply because I've already invested so much time in learning so far and due to my limited hours I'd like to start playing MKS since I've only had the time to keep up with learning this version over time. (Also Extraplanetary Launchpads not working would be a problem since I prefer being able to build a rocket completely from scratch in-situ).

If something is a bug I don't expect support for it, I just want to know if it's intended functionality or not so I can understand MKS's mechanics so I can have fun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, rudemario said:

 As to why I'm not using the latest pre-release:

  Hide contents

 (Also Extraplanetary Launchpads not working would be a problem since I prefer being able to build a rocket completely from scratch in-situ).

 

Yes, but in the prerelease there's Roverdudes own orbital shipyard that allows you to build ships in-situ...So you don't need EL or GC.
(but the choice is up to you ofcourse, not trying to tell you what to do :))

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, rudemario said:

  MKS version v1.3 was the "current version" for 10 months. Does this mean drills were unfunctional for 10 months on the newest version? Based on my testing that doesn't turn out to be the case, which means that's not the answer.

It turns out that Roverdudes comments about the drills are true and are not anywhere on the Functions page on the wiki. It appears that when you activate a second separator on the drill, it increases the thermal output to just the perfect degree to limit yourself to the same resource throughput as before. So if I was mining 9 dirt per second, adding a second separator of dirt will bring me down after the heat builds up to approximately 9~. This was only confusing as this was not mentioned on the wiki. It makes perfect sense that the Drills were previously setup in this way to simply allow you to split throughput between 5 resources by having a bigger drill, but the amount of resource mining is already chosen by how big of a drill you chose for the mission. Simply activating one bay is enough.

This does not appear to be a bug or broken at all. It's just un-intuitive and not mentioned. Drill throughput is chosen by the drill size and adding more separator bays just splits the output between the amount of resources chosen. It just looks like heat goes crazy by accident, when it's a feature as a way to limit throughput.

As to why I'm not using the latest pre-release:

  Reveal hidden contents

My job only gives me just a few hours some nights to play KSP or any game, that's if nothing else comes up, and I've spent the few hours over the last month slowly learning MKS's components so I can plan out a forward operating base to launch rockets into the EventHorizon mod which adds Interstellar (2014)'s Gargantua system, orbiting a black hole. I've spent many many hours learning the core systems and I don't really have much time, and I've already spent time learning how Extraplanetary Launchpads works, how long it should roughly take to build, how much MaterialKits I would need, how long it would take to mine 150,000 MaterialKits etc for a certain class of ship etc, how hab works, how the ranger stuff interacts compared to the tundra stuff. I don't want to spend another 15 hours over 2 weeks learning how Ground Construction was removed, if Extraplanetary Launchpads even still works with the MaterialKits/SpecializedParts patch, how the new balances to the resource gathering works, how the new WOLF system works, how 1.11's inventory system coincides with KIS/KAS. I prefer KIS/KAS's system but Roverdude deprecated support for KIS/KAS and have to relearn that system and find some other way to tether parts etc given how there isn't much documentation for the new 1.11 MKS system and other issues caused by 1.11, seeing how I'm almost ready to start playing my Gargantua mission after spending the last month learning how everything works and doing tests. It's simply because I've already invested so much time in learning so far and due to my limited hours I'd like to start playing MKS since I've only had the time to keep up with learning this version over time. (Also Extraplanetary Launchpads not working would be a problem since I prefer being able to build a rocket completely from scratch in-situ).

If something is a bug I don't expect support for it, I just want to know if it's intended functionality or not so I can understand MKS's mechanics so I can have fun.

That's actually good information that I wasn't aware of. Thanks

But, none of the above considers the bonuses problem, so just remember that if your drill, after bonuses, is running at 150%, you will need 150% of power and cooling per drill.  That's the only thing that really got me. Sometime not levelling Kerbals to counteract the bonuses was my only option.

I have not used the pre release Constellation, but I am using 1.4 with the single bays  for drills and manufacturing without any issues. Gameplay is roughly the same for everything else, and it's somewhat future friendly.

Edited by Gilph
spelling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Gilph said:

That's actually good information that I wasn't aware of. Thanks

But, none of the above considers the bonuses problem, so just remember that if your drill, after bonuses, is running at 150%, you will need 150% of power and cooling per drill.  That's the only thing that really got me. Sometime not levelling Kerbals to counteract the bonuses was my only option.

I have not used the pre release Constellation, but I am using 1.4 with the single bays  for drills and manufacturing without any issues. Gameplay is roughly the same for everything else, and it's somewhat future friendly.

Ah, I see, and that's a good point. That's not something I would've noticed in my testing, as I haven't delved deep enough to explore bonuses. I understand why they moved away from the Seperator decision, then, since when combined with other systems it produces strange and detrimental consequences.

Maybe I'll look into upgrading to at least 1.4 if things haven't changed too much. Although not even the pre-release constellation fixes the bug I was having earlier in the thread where Ranger parts when activated were having their total hab timers decrease instead of just the kerbals timers, meaning that I wouldn't be able to use those parts to make Kerbals have indefinite hab stays (over 50 years grants infinite stay, but as the hab total time value itself decreases, this pushes the total below 50 years and thus the vessel no longer has >50 years, removing the bonus. Also, it doesn't decrease 1:1, 1 year is like 20 years of hab for some reason).

Thanks, I appreciate you sharing your experience with it!

 

7 hours ago, modus said:

Yes, but in the prerelease there's Roverdudes own orbital shipyard that allows you to build ships in-situ...So you don't need EL or GC.
(but the choice is up to you ofcourse, not trying to tell you what to do :))

I saw bits of that, but wasn't sure how long it would take to learn Roverdude's Konstruction variant of shipyards and I wasn't sure whether or not it allowed true in-situ building. As far as I was aware, I believe there was a set of components that always had to be shipped from Kerbin, much like how GC required you to choose a blueprint and ship it over. I think it would be cool to largely no longer use Kerbin altogether except for VAB and SPH building.

If the systems aren't that complex or aren't bleeding edge enough that they have little documentation to understand then I'd look into giving it a shot. Not against it, just would like to start playing instead of learning so much, and I've almost finally learned enough to start, lol!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@DoktorKrogg, is there a USI "scaling-guide" for balancing habitation time and/or resource converters based on the size of a part?  I'm trying to assist development of a USI patch for Benjee10's Planetside Exploration Technologies mod.  I'm looking for something better than trying to linearly extrapolate MKS 2.5m and 3.75m Tundra series parts to the 1.875m and short 3.75m modules in PET.

Edited by KSPrynk
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, KSPrynk said:

@DoktorKrogg, is there a USI "scaling-guide" for balancing habitation time and/or resource converters based on the size of a part?

There is whole spreadsheet for it in fact. I don't know the link off the top of my head but @RoverDude can probably get it for you (or it may have already been linked elsewhere in this thread). I seem to recall there was even a video explaining how to use the spreadsheet on YouTube or Twitch maybe...?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, DoktorKrogg said:

There is whole spreadsheet for it in fact. I don't know the link off the top of my head but @RoverDude can probably get it for you (or it may have already been linked elsewhere in this thread). I seem to recall there was even a video explaining how to use the spreadsheet on YouTube or Twitch maybe...?

Cool, that helped - I *think* I found the spreadsheet, via discussion here, from nearly four years ago.  Next step - finding the spreadsheet tutorial video....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I wanted to add Uranite to the WOLF system (harvesting it through WOLF), would the module on the harvesters for Uraninite have UraniniteVein as an InputResource?  Also I'm not seeing Uraninite show up after doing a WOLF scan in the list of harvestable resources, even though I have Uraninite in the wolf.cfg under AllowedHarvestableResources.

Edited by Kerbex
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, rudemario said:

I saw bits of that, but wasn't sure how long it would take to learn Roverdude's Konstruction variant of shipyards and I wasn't sure whether or not it allowed true in-situ building. As far as I was aware, I believe there was a set of components that always had to be shipped from Kerbin, much like how GC required you to choose a blueprint and ship it over. I think it would be cool to largely no longer use Kerbin altogether except for VAB and SPH building.

If the systems aren't that complex or aren't bleeding edge enough that they have little documentation to understand then I'd look into giving it a shot. Not against it, just would like to start playing instead of learning so much, and I've almost finally learned enough to start, lol!

The Konstruction part is easy: it's one part that's lets you construct everything through a very simple UI, where you select the craft you want to build, and build it....if you have all the right resources, and that's were WOLF comes in the picture. Now, you can mine and make all the resources through MKS (given the fact that you're a bit reluctant to try WOLF) but that's going to be a hell of a job imo.


Not going to try to convince you or write a whole essay on the benefits of WOLF, but I can just say that I, after setting up WOLF -and yes, it's a new learning process and it takes time-  can effectively make ships without using Kerbin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Try it out!

Use the latest Constellation build to try them for yourself and use the introductions, diagramswalkthroughs, and part descriptions on the Wiki to explore WOLF. This build also contains the Konstruction parts that allow in situ building of any parts or vehicle, planets ide or in orbit.

I can't find it in the documents or posts: is WOLF an acronym, and if so, for what?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...