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[1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)


RoverDude
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On 4/21/2022 at 9:53 AM, modus said:

Also, 

 2 material kits in your depot. Forever. That's not the same as having 2 units of MK.

Have you tried making MK without WOLF? And then, doing stuff with those MK, like making colony supplies? Talk about monstrosities, lagging your game. 

The (imho very cool) thing with WOLF is that you can set up huge mining bases, all running in the background. Yes, sometimes you have to make weird looking big things*, and yes, setting up a WOLF base off Kerbin can be hard and maybe a bit of a grind, but in my experience it's totally worth the effort. 

*It's very much possible to build WOLF stuff in pieces, you just have to make good use of the planner, like @RoverDudesaid. Don't try to do everything in one go.

You have to look at the 'recipe'. If you want to fabricate MK, the fabricators recipe has to be MK. To change the recipe, click on 'next recipe' untill it says what you want:)

Okay I feel like I'm talking to myself but I'll try this again.

I'm not blind and can see that recipes can be changed and that use of the Planner is the way to get the correct configuration but... what I'm putting in while it should make sense and be logical isn't coming out that way.

Example:

KSC has the following Harvest-able Resources:

Dirt            590             Gypsum   115       Hydrates  105     MetallicOre  90     Minerals   10     Oxygen     1000     Silicates    5     Water 830     Xenon   0

If I set my Bulk Harvester to Dirt => MetallicOre, in the planner I see at the bottom of the planner - Dirt   Abundance 590  Harvested  0 (-5)    Available   585

UP TOP in the planner I see Dirt    Incoming  0 (+10)   Outgoing   0 (-25)   Available  -15

So... I understand that I haven't deployed this unit so it's NOT currently harvesting... What I don't understand is, am I trying to make the Top Available go Positive or Negative to achieve my resource?

Is the Goal to drive the Bottom part of the Planner Available down to Zero????

Logic to me says that if I set my Harvester to Dirt => Metallic Ore   then that's what I'm going to get, but it doesn't look like I am in the Planner window.

Next part of the logic would be if my Harvest-able Resources is Zero then if I set my Harvester to Xenon => Whatever... I'm not going to get Anything because there is no Xenon at that area.

Setting the Harvester to whatever my Harvest-able resource tab says I have should yield that Item .... there shouldn't be a recipe because it's not a refinery or converter but a Harvester.

The Refinery is where I take that Raw resource and extract or choose the recipe of what I want from that resource. 

Example:  Dirt yields Ores,Minerals, Rare Metals, Metals, Exotic Minerals, Gypsum, Metallic Ore, Silicate, Substrate

                       Hydrates yields Water, Oxygen, Chemicals, and other Fluid items.

What I was attempting to do per the example that was given in the documentation I was going off was to create Material kits.

I have 4 options within the Fabricator:  Colony Supplies, Machinery, Mat kits, Special parts

Each have 3 recipes within them all pointing back to each other... i.e. Colony Supplies => (Machinery, Mat kits, or Special Parts) and so on.

If I understand the logic... I want Mat kits... so I set the Fabricator to Mat Kits => (Whatever).

But what I'm not understanding is... in setting it to this... is it Making Mat Kits from the Whatever OR is it taking Mat Kits and making the Whatever?   That (=>) symbol is confusing.

Example: Setting Fab mod to (Mat Kit => Machinery) Would this mean that I need to somehow make Machinery in order for the Fab mod to make Mat kits?

BUT when I open the CFG file for the Fabricator module and look at the Recipe for Mat Kits, it's looking for 1 Chemical, 1 Maintenance, 2 Metals, 2 Polymers, 1 Power, 1 TechCrewpoint.

Nowhere in that recipe is it asking for Machinery, Colony Supplies, or Special parts!   So it appears to be a disconnect.

The CFG file for Fabricator Colony Supplies Recipe throws in more questions as it asks for:  5 Machinery, 1 Maintenance, 3 Mat kits, 1 Power, 2 Special Part, 1 Techcrew.

So you'd need a Fabricator building nothing but Mat kits, another for building Machinery, and another to build the Colony Supplies.   A total of 3 Fabricators to build Colony Supplies, which I'm okay with if I better understood what the options are telling me to do.

I'm not knocking this Mod... I love it or rather WANT to love it.  I'm just not understanding how it works to get it to work and thus missing out on what could be a very Great part of the overall simulation, because... KSP is more simulation then game.

 

Bottomline: 

Bulk Harvesters shouldn't have Recipes.  It should have options to harvest the raw materials that are in that biome period.

Refineries breakdown the raw materials into the various bi-product of those raw materials. (Recipes)

Fabricators combine those refined materials into a new resource/product. (Recipes)

Manufacturing combines any of the above materials to make the final product. (Recipes)

 

I wish I had the knowledge you all do on creating these mods and I do appreciate the time and effort put into them... All of them good/bad or otherwise.   The whole idea of this forum is to discuss them and promote new ideas or refinements.... To also gain knowledge that we didn't have before.   My last ask is that no one take offense to my post, but to understand that I'm asking for assistance and helpful assistance is appreciated.  If there is a document I need or should read, great - point it out.... but to say change the options without an explanation or asking if I tried is not helpful, just snarky.

Edited by Xtra
Added more clarification
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55 minutes ago, notthebobo said:

@Xtra this Wiki page may help

Thank you @notthebobo, while this is helpful... there still is the issue that when you are using the Fabricator module the options don't match what it's supposedly doing with the recipes.

Example:   

Fabricator Module options:

Colony Supplies => Machinery           Colony Supplies => Material Kits           Colony Supplies => Specialized Parts

Machinery => Colony Supplies            Machinery => Material Kits        Machinery => Specialized Parts

Material kits => Colony Supplies        Material kits => Machinery           Material kits => Specialized Parts

Specialized Parts => Colony Supplies      Specialized Parts => Machinery      Specialized Parts => Material Kits

What is it building if I select Material kits => Colony Supplies???                 Is it building Material Kits from Colony Supplies or is it building Colony Supplies from Material Kits?

I get that if I want Material kits that I have to have 1 Chemical, 2 Metals, 2 Polymers, 1 Power, 1 Maintenance,1 Tech Crew point.  But the recipe options don't make sense... Even the picture attached to the link you sent... the formula doesn't show Colony Supplies, Machinery, or Specialize parts in the equation for Material Kits; it just has... 1 Chemical, 2 Metals, 2 Polymers, 1 Power, 1 Maintenance,1 Tech Crew point.   So when I'm told to set the Fabrication module to create Material Kits.... Which Option do I choose????  Material kits => Colony Supplies        Material kits => Machinery           Material kits => Specialized Parts   and what does the second item in that recipe even mean???  Even the other modules, the recipes don't match up and it causes confusion.  Here is another example:

Extractor

Fertilizer => Oxygen     Fertilizer => Water

Oxygen => Fertilizer     Oxygen  => Water

Water => Oxygen          Water => Fertilizer

None of these recipes match up with the formulas which is if I want Fertilizer then I need: Power, Lab, Maintenance, and Gypsum; but you don't see that in the options above.   Do I just ignore anything after the (=>) if so, why even put it in there?

Can you see what I'm saying?

 

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@XtraI'm sorry my response seemed 'snarky'.

The => has no functionality apart from telling you what the next recipe is. I agree this can be confusing. I also made a mistake by saying you can change recipe by clicking on 'next recipe'; you have to click the '...=>...' button.
So, a harvester that says 'Dirt => Metallic Ore' harvests dirt. That's it, the metallic ore doesn't do anything. A fabricator that says 'Material kits => whatever' fabricates MK.
That's why I said to (only) look at the recipe.

 

21 hours ago, Xtra said:

Example:

KSC has the following Harvest-able Resources:

Dirt            590             Gypsum   115       Hydrates  105     MetallicOre  90     Minerals   10     Oxygen     1000     Silicates    5     Water 830     Xenon   0

If I set my Bulk Harvester to Dirt => MetallicOre, in the planner I see at the bottom of the planner - Dirt   Abundance 590  Harvested  0 (-5)    Available   585

UP TOP in the planner I see Dirt    Incoming  0 (+10)   Outgoing   0 (-25)   Available  -15

So... I understand that I haven't deployed this unit so it's NOT currently harvesting... What I don't understand is, am I trying to make the Top Available go Positive or Negative to achieve my resource?

Is the Goal to drive the Bottom part of the Planner Available down to Zero????

So, your KSC WOLF biome has 590 dirt to be harvested. A bulk harvester can harvest 5 from the dirtvein. 590-5= 585 dirt left in the biome. The goal is not to get this to zero, it just tells you how much dirt there is left in the biome (not the depot!).

The 5 dirt from the dirtvein you harvested gets transformed to 10 dirt in your depot. So the planner will say 'incoming 0(+10) outgoing 0 available 10'. In your case it says 'Incoming  0 (+10)   Outgoing   0 (-25)   Available  -15'. That means you're already using dirt for something else. If you harvest 15 more dirt, it will say 'available 0'. Nice, but you can't do anything with 0, so you want more. How much more? Depends on what you want to do and how much dirt is needed for that. That's why I said to use the planner, plan i advance and work your way back.

 

17 minutes ago, Xtra said:

What is it building if I select Material kits => Colony Supplies???                 Is it building Material Kits from Colony Supplies or is it building Colony Supplies from Material Kits?

None of those:) It's building MK, the CS play no role.

So for MK you need stuff (none of which is CS):

Ae2rlNF.png

You need to produce that stuff first (or have it available in your depot) before you can make the MK.

Edited by modus
added something. Stuff gor merged apparently
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12 minutes ago, modus said:

@XtraI'm sorry my response seemed 'snarky'.

The => has no functionality apart from telling you what the next recipe is. I agree this can be confusing. I also made a mistake by saying you can change recipe by clicking on 'next recipe'; you have to click the '...=>...' button.
So, a harvester that says 'Dirt => Metallic Ore' harvests dirt. That's it, the metallic ore doesn't do anything. A fabricator that says 'Material kits => whatever' fabricates MK.
That's why I said to (only) look at the recipe.

 

So, your KSC WOLF biome has 590 dirt to be harvested. A bulk harvester can harvest 5 from the dirtvein. 590-5= 585 dirt left in the biome. The goal is not to get this to zero, it just tells you how much dirt there is left in the biome (not the depot!).

The 5 dirt from the dirtvein you harvested gets transformed to 10 dirt in your depot. So the planner will say 'incoming 0(+10) outgoing 0 available 10'. In your case it says 'Incoming  0 (+10)   Outgoing   0 (-25)   Available  -15'. That means you're already using dirt for something else. If you harvest 15 more dirt, it will say 'available 0'. Nice, but you can't do anything with 0, so you want more. How much more? Depends on what you want to do and how much dirt is needed for that. That's why I said to use the planner, plan i advance and work your way back.

 

None of those:) It's building MK, the CS play no role.

So for MK you need stuff (none of which is CS):

Ae2rlNF.png

You need to produce that stuff first before you can make the MK.

@modus Thank you... That makes more sense.  I will admit that I was starting to believe the (=> whatever) didn't mean anything, but wasn't completely sure as I was trying multiple different combinations to try and figure out what the system was all doing.   Agreed - you don't want your resources to go to Zero... Or negative (which I was seeing).  Hopefully now with some of this explained, I'll be able to get my first mining or Harvesting configuration deployed at KSC today.   

Since I've retired, I'm spending almost 16 hours a day in this game trying different things.... I'm running over 32k of patches and sometimes wonder if one is monkeying with another.  Last night I had a Space Station completely "explosive disassemble" because all the autostruts were disabled and my B9 procedural parts either Completely vanished (before the explosion) or were several meters (20 + meters) away from their original location floating in space.  After numerous reloads and quick crew transfers I was able to save the whole crew in modules that survived, but over 85 parts scattered LKO and had to be cleaned up. :(   So I'm off to construct another Space Station but using construction docks where needed so they can be changed into firmer connections once assembled.

Thank you again @modus and @notthebobo for your replies and assistance.

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do engineers within 150m affect all drills within that range (including stock)?

for example i have 1 engineer living in a habitat and a MEU-100 drill mining substrate, with a stock drill + convert-o-tron. They are split into 3 vessels with the habitat, substrate drill and ore ISRU (all within 150m of each other). Does the engineer in the habitat affect the efficiency of the drills around it? and do i need one engineer in charge of each drill?

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16 hours ago, bill_billy_lee said:

do engineers within 150m affect all drills within that range (including stock)?

for example i have 1 engineer living in a habitat and a MEU-100 drill mining substrate, with a stock drill + convert-o-tron. They are split into 3 vessels with the habitat, substrate drill and ore ISRU (all within 150m of each other). Does the engineer in the habitat affect the efficiency of the drills around it? and do i need one engineer in charge of each drill?

Sorry... I can't answer that.

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Hi everyone,
Some months ago I had this problems. I couldn't fix it and I played another game type.  This week I would like to start a new game with MKS like "main mod", I tried it but I found the same problems than some months ago.

"Kebcicle-250 Cryotank" don´t find scientific aboard and "KF-250 KonFabricator" don´t find engineer aboard.

I hope this time somebody can give me any solutions or something to try (or maybe I have to wait a future stable release). Conditions are the seam as the first time (in Update 2):

On 1/21/2022 at 5:38 PM, ninleafar said:

Hi everyone, 
I hope I can explain well in English…

I´m a veteran KSP Player, but I did´t play since KSP 1.9. Normally, I can find solution for all problems I had, but in this case I don´t know how solve this…
I´m doing test my habitual mods, like MKS, and his new features, for my future save game and I found some problems:
With KonFabricator… When I try to use this function, the KonFabricator windows show me: “Engineer not found in active Vessel”, and I can´t use them.
This happened with the three parts (KF-250, KS-250 and KS-500)
And when I try to freeze some Kerbals with USI LS, the game not find a scientific in the vessel…

  Reveal hidden contents

7Mk4Sez.png


But, of course, there are some engineers and scientific on board.

I downloaded all USI mods (last releases) from: https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries
I know I had installed “unsteable release”, but I think nobody wrote about this problems… (except this… https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/issues/1516 )
 

I´ve installing and uninstalling a lot for mods for test them and for can open older ships, but, somebody can give me some clue about where could have the problems.

Actual mod list:
 

  Reveal hidden contents

Folders and files in GameData:
000_ClickThroughBlocker
000_FilterExtensions
000_FilterExtensions_Configs
000_Harmony
000_TexturesUnlimited
000_Toolbar
000_UICore
000_USITools
001_ToolbarControl
999_KSP-Recall
B9PartSwitch
Chatterer
Coatl Aerospace
CommunityCategoryKit
CommunityResourcePack
CommunityTechTree
ConformalDecals
ContractConfigurator
ContractPacks
CryoEngines
CryoTanks
DeployableEngines
DMagicOrbitalScience
DMagicScienceAnimate
DMagicUtilities
DynamicBatteryStorage
EasyVesselSwitch
EditorExtensionsRedux
Firespitter
FlightPlan
FP_DPSoundFX
HeatControl
HideEmptyTechTreeNodes
JanitorsCloset
KAS
KerbalAtomics
KerbalFoundries
KerbalHacks
KerBalloons
KerbalReusabilityExpansion
Kerbaltek
KerbetrotterLtd
KIS
KSP-AVC
KspCraftOrganizer
KSPRanks
KSPRescuePodFix
KSPWheel
LETech
MainSailor
MechJeb2
MechJebForAll
ModularLaunchPads
NavyFish
NearFutureConstruction
NearFutureElectrical
NearFutureExploration
NearFutureLaunchVehicles
NearFutureProps
NearFuturePropulsion
NearFutureSolar
NearFutureSpacecraft
NEBULA
Nereid
PhantomAerospace
ProceduralFairings
ProceduralFairings-ForEverything
ProceduralParts
RealChute
REPOSoftTech
ReStock
ReStockPlus
SCANsat
Shabby
ShipManifest
SpaceTuxLibrary
Stock folder: Squad
Stock folder: SquadExpansion
SSTU
StagedAnimation
StationPartsExpansionRedux
StationPartsExpansionReduxIVAs
StationScience
STMRibbons
StretchySNTextures
TacFuelBalancer
TarsierSpaceTech
TextureReplacer
TriggerTech
TweakScale
TweakScaleCompanion
UmbraSpaceIndustries
UniversalStorage2
VesselNotes
Waterfall
WaterfallRestock
ZeroMiniAVC
[x]_Science!
999_Scale_Redist.dll
FinalFrontier.dat
ModuleManager.4.2.1.dll
ModuleManager.ConfigCache
ModuleManager.ConfigSHA
ModuleManager.Physics
ModuleManager.TechTree
toolbar-settings.dat

UPDATE: I had uninstalled KSP and do a clean install, now only "Unstable Release 112.0.1-bleeding-edge.3" is installed and the problem persist...

 

UPDATE 2: somedays later, I decided try with "Constellation", Unstable Release 112.0.1-bleeding-edge.2, from here

And the result was the same... 

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@modus  Would you have any idea why this is happening?

[ERR 21:36:51.869] The AssetBundle 'file://D:\KSP 1.12.2.3167\GameData\UmbraSpaceIndustries\MKS\mkskspedia.ksp' can't be loaded because it was not built with the right version or build target.

[ERR 21:36:51.869] Error while getting Asset Bundle: The AssetBundle 'file://D:\KSP 1.12.2.3167\GameData\UmbraSpaceIndustries\MKS\mkskspedia.ksp' can't be loaded because it was not built with the right version or build target.

[ERR 21:36:51.869] AssetLoader: Bundle is null

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@Xtra The KSPedia format changed at some point (likely KSP1.8). All mods' KSPedias broke at that point. Any that still work have been re-made from scratch, and making a KSPedia is a very un-fun job, from what I've heard. I take it that RoverDude put plenty effort to make USI documentation available in spreadsheets (as well as on GitHub) and maybe even video. It won't be worth his time to re-make the KSPedia.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/29/2022 at 9:48 PM, ninleafar said:

Hi everyone,
Some months ago I had this problems. I couldn't fix it and I played another game type.  This week I would like to start a new game with MKS like "main mod", I tried it but I found the same problems than some months ago.

"Kebcicle-250 Cryotank" don´t find scientific aboard and "KF-250 KonFabricator" don´t find engineer aboard.

I hope this time somebody can give me any solutions or something to try (or maybe I have to wait a future stable release). Conditions are the seam as the first time (in Update 2):

i'm not an expert, but if the kerbal-freezer is broken, try using the latest stable release of usi-LS. I think all the freezing stuff will no longer exist, so use this mod for freezing instead

hope it helps;)

Edited by bill_billy_lee
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32 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@Xtra The KSPedia format changed at some point (likely KSP1.8). All mods' KSPedias broke at that point. Any that still work have been re-made from scratch, and making a KSPedia is a very un-fun job, from what I've heard. I take it that RoverDude put plenty effort to make USI documentation available in spreadsheets (as well as on GitHub) and maybe even video. It won't be worth his time to re-make the KSPedia.

Thank you for the answer.

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I fear this is a hardy perennial, but my search-fu is failing me. Home timers decrease, except that a medbay or colonisation module can increase them again... but by how much per unit of ColonySupplies? I can't find that anywhere, and the question of when it becomes worth shipping ColonySupplies rather than just slapping on more Kerbitats is hard to resolve without knowing it.

Thanks in advance.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, damerell said:

I fear this is a hardy perennial, but my search-fu is failing me. Home timers decrease, except that a medbay or colonisation module can increase them again... but by how much per unit of ColonySupplies? I can't find that anywhere, and the question of when it becomes worth shipping ColonySupplies rather than just slapping on more Kerbitats is hard to resolve without knowing it.

Thanks in advance.

If you get the habitation up to 5 years(I think, might be 50 for non-pilots) then the home and habitation timers stop.  At that point it is considered a full colony and adequate for long-term habitation.

Colony supplies can still be used in the medbay to bring back unhappy kerbals, but at that point the only reason to run the colonization modules is if you have reproduction turned on.

 

As far as I am aware, the exact ratio of colony supplies to additional time has not been published(and is likely dependent on your hab-time/seat configuration).

3.75m has a 'time multiplier' of 6 and a rate of 0.000833 colony supplies/sec 

2.5m has a multiplier of 2 for 0.000278 CS/sec

This may or may not be related to their crew capacity which matches the time multiplier, but as 278*3=834, it looks like the efficcency may be the same between them.

At first glance it *looks like* you may be getting 2 seconds of additional hab-time per 0.000139 colony supplies, but this would need verification.(it might only be 1 second, especially if your timers are stopped)

This would be roughly 1 CS per seat for every 2 hours(or 3/day per seat), giving possibly 2 or 4 hours of additional hab-time per unit of colony supplies.

Note: med-bays only work on disgruntled kerbals, but look to use roughly twice as many colony supplies per seat/time multiplier, but may also be affected by the number of stars the scientist has, potentially making it more efficient than a colony bay with enough stars.

 

note: these numbers were taken from a 1.4.1 release of MKS

Edited by Terwin
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Posted (edited)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but each unit seems to provide 2 additional Kerbal-hours (in a Colonisation module; much worse in a medbay but if you're using a medbay you don't have any choice). At 1.5 kg/unit, that means that you expend 4.5 kg payload per Kerbal-day.

By comparison, a 3.75m Tundra Kerbitat provides 1820 Kerbal-days of habitation and weighs 9 tonnes. Around 5 kg per Kerbal-day (and it uses EC and it doesn't get lighter during the voyage). However, if we couple that with a second one in Hab-Common mode, we are getting circa 11700 Kerbal-days for 18 tonnes - roughly 1.5 kg per Kerbal-day.

So on the face of it it seems ColonySupplies only make sense if they are being manufactured in situ or brought as emergency medical supplies.

I briefly said "or if the exact requirements of the mission can be met with a modest quantity, but even the lightest timer multiplier modules would take more mass" but no, if you're toting around a Tundra Kolonisation module you're not gram-shaving.

Edited by damerell
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On 5/1/2022 at 12:20 AM, JadeOfMaar said:

All mods' KSPedias broke at that point.

We managed to find the GitHub repo with the KSPedia stuff for MKS and I was able to get it recompiled. So it will be available again in the next release... which will be an official release finally. Usual disclaimer... Soon™.

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Posted (edited)

@DoktorKrogg As I have your attention. I've been wondering about how much or how little WOLF can be used for transport of resources between the moons of a single parent planet (preferrably between landed complexes). (I really want to ask about interplanetary but I shall be cautious and assume that something about this would require more effort from RoverDude to invest than he's willing to.)

I ask as there are those among us who may be interested in colonizing (for example) a volcanic planet and having shipments come in from an ice planet and a gas planet. Or more gently: to colonize an ice moon but to import metals from a not-ice moon and gases from the gas planet that owns these moons.

Edited by JadeOfMaar
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IIRC you can already do both of these today, but the input must be created by a WOLF base rather than a regular base.

So on planet A biome X you create a WOLF base that produces a surplus of some resource. Then you create a transport route from planet A biome X to planet B's moon C's biome Y (by sending a ship with WOLF containers and a transport computer). Once the route is established you can use it to transport the surplus.

You are only limited by the cost (transport credits) of creating the transport route, not by location. And you can 'cheat' by refueling your transport ship at the destination (ISRU...) which is likely to make the transport cost free. 

And of course you also need to deploy a hopper at the destination base if you want to get the resource out of WOLF and do something with it. 

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Yep, what @Grimmas said. :) If you can get a vehicle from point A to point B with some WOLF cargo crates on board, have depots setup at both ends and can afford the cost in transport credits (or have a way to refuel at the destination to make it free), you can transport WOLF resources anywhere. Same goes for crew transfers. Should work with custom planet packs, interstellar mods, etc. as long as they aren't doing weird stuff that skirts the stock biome and resource systems since we rely on those to keep track of where depots have been setup and calculate resource abundance.

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11 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

I ask as there are those among us who may be interested in colonizing (for example) a volcanic planet and having shipments come in from an ice planet and a gas planet. Or more gently: to colonize an ice moon but to import metals from a not-ice moon and gases from the gas planet that owns these moons.

Like the gentlemen above said: totally doable. I ship stuff from everywhere to everywhere :wink:

 

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