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[1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)


RoverDude

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On 7/24/2017 at 9:25 PM, Nergal8617 said:

I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure that one is a hard dependency.

FYI, this doesn't appear to be the case.  I did some digging into the csproject files and found no attached references to it. So I backed up my save and got rid of it.  No problems or log errors so far, and best of all, no useless icon taking up a spot on the toolbar.  So it seems it isn't a hard dependency at all.

(Though I am getting "Rendering procedural drag for PAL.Cradle375" spammed in the log, but I think that was there before)

Edited by Alshain
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On 28.07.2017 at 2:48 PM, voicey99 said:

The best way to get through Eve's atmosphere is to use flywheels and fins together. You would need a few decent wheels near the CoM (I think they give less torque the further they are from it) with a big tail of fins strethching out behind it (detachable if possible-you might also want to encase it in a fairing for ascent, else it will make your vessel very unstable). For example, this vessel can handle the 6G of deceleration necessary for an Eve landing with ease-it's rated for Jooldiving as well, should you feel the need to send it into a gas giant:

My way of dropping big stuff on Eve:

yWAHFEM.png

Dropping huge stuff on Eve (exerything outside the fairing is ditched):

EdrjCOs.png

With huge drop masses ( >100t) fins won't cut it. They just explode, just like the inflatable heatshield. Only the fairing seems to work OK, and even then you need to build it right.

 

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1 hour ago, Alshain said:

FYI, this doesn't appear to be the case.  I did some digging into the csproject files and found no attached references to it. So I backed up my save and got rid of it.  No problems or log errors so far, and best of all, no useless icon taking up a spot on the toolbar.  So it seems it isn't a hard dependency at all.

(Though I am getting "Rendering procedural drag for PAL.Cradle375" spammed in the log, but I think that was there before)

PAL.Cradle375 is something to do with a part from Konstruction (USI mod, comes bundled with MKS). I see no reason as to why it's a hard dependency, as there are no mechanics that rely on it and it was only introduced to the bundle relatively recently.

4 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

<schnip>

With huge drop masses ( >100t) fins won't cut it. They just explode, just like the inflatable heatshield. Only the fairing seems to work OK, and even then you need to build it right.

They only explode if they stick out from behind the heatshield, which can happen if you use fins that are too large or make the tail too long. The inflatable shield also only explodes if you slam into the atmosphere at way too steep an angle.

I have tried fairings in the past, and I could never seem to make them work as their heat tolerance is only 2.6KK, which isn't enough for anything but the shallowest and slowest entry.

Edited by voicey99
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4 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

I have tried fairings in the past, and I could never seem to make them work as their heat tolerance is only 2.6KK, which isn't enough for anything but the shallowest and slowest entry.

The trick is to: A) make it really big, B) make it go sideways in the atmosphere, and C) drop as much speed with engines before reentry as possible (up to 1000m/s from low orbit). Then it works. 

 

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5 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

The trick is to: A) make it really big, B) make it go sideways in the atmosphere, and C) drop as much speed with engines before reentry as possible (up to 1000m/s from low orbit). Then it works. 

Hm. I find that if you drop loads of speed before entering then you come speeding in at a really steep trajectory which gives you a lot more Gs than you need and makes it very hard to stay stable. And then there's the hazard of trying to drop the fairing while moving through an atmosphere without the kraken having something to say about it.

Edited by voicey99
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Just now, voicey99 said:

Hm. I find that if you drop loads of speed before entering then you come speeding in at a really steep trajectory which gives you a lot more Gs than you need and makes it very hard to stay stable.

That's the point, you dont need to stay stable. If it's a long and heavy payload (99% of my Eve landers), then build a huge fairing around it and include 2 inflatable heatshields to both sides (or 1 heatshield and a bulge on the fairing, as on my pic). Then it'll stablilze going sideways in the atmosphere while spinning. You don't need any SAS or fins for this. The Gs will be high, but not catastrophically high. Trust me, I made a self-sufficient base on Eve with a single ludicrous lander (forgive me Roverdude).

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Just now, sh1pman said:

That's the point, you dont need to stay stable. If it's a long and heavy payload (99% of my Eve landers), then build a huge fairing around it and include 2 inflatable heatshields to both sides (or 1 heatshield and a bulge on the fairing, as on my pic). Then it'll stablilze going sideways in the atmosphere while spinning. You don't need any SAS or fins for this. The Gs will be high, but not catastrophically high. Trust me, I made a self-sufficient base on Eve with a single ludicrous lander (forgive me Roverdude).

I guess. Still, that means I have to give it more ΔV, and ejecting a fairing around a large vessel in an atmosphere is kraken bait.

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Just now, voicey99 said:

ejecting a fairing around a large vessel in an atmosphere is kraken bait.

If you do it high up (40 km or so, stock atmo), it won't cause any issues. And I'm talking about reaally heavy and long weights, where everything else fails. For smaller landers you have many more options.

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Just now, sh1pman said:

If you do it high up (40 km or so, stock atmo), it won't cause any issues. And I'm talking about reaally heavy and long weights, where everything else fails. For smaller landers you have many more options.

I use Realistic Atmospheres, which squishes Eve's atmosphere down to 55km so the pressure gradient is a lot steeper and by the time the flames die down the aero forces are such that something's going to catch or break.

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30 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

PAL.Cradle375 is something to do with a part from Konstruction (USI mod, comes bundled with MKS). I see no reason as to why it's a hard dependency, as there are no mechanics that rely on it and it was only introduced to the bundle relatively recently.

I think a better way to think about is that it's intended to be a hard dependency.  It's fairly recently been added, but RoverDude is going to be developing assuming everyone will have it installed.  At the moment nothing relies on it - but there's no guarantee that will hold true with the next version of MKS, or the one after that.

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Just now, voicey99 said:

I use Realistic Atmospheres, which squishes Eve's atmosphere down to 55km so the pressure gradient is a lot steeper and by the time the flames die down the aero forces are such that something's going to catch or break.

Just 55km, how realistic is that? Eve has much more atmosphere than Kerbin, it should be higher than that.

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Just now, sh1pman said:

Just 55km, how realistic is that? Eve has much more atmosphere than Kerbin, it should be higher than that.

It's simulating Eve's 1.7g crushing it down to a much denser layer, which is apparently how it should be.

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Just now, voicey99 said:

It's simulating Eve's 1.7g crushing it down to a much denser layer, which is apparently how it should be.

Really? Well I guess it makes sense. What's the pressure on the surface then?

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6 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

Really? Well I guess it makes sense. What's the pressure on the surface then?

Still 6atm, presumably so it doesn't drop an even bigger nuke on engine efficiency. It also changes the scale height so the overall atmosphere mass I believe is similar, but it does indeed make going to Eve easier.

It also puffs the atmospheres of Duna, Jool and Laythe out thanks to their low molar masses/gravity.

Edited by voicey99
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Just now, sh1pman said:

I think it makes Eve easier to launch from, since you escape the atmosphere faster.

Yep, it does. It's as though they gave Eve an artificially puffed-out atmosphere to make it harder to get off of.

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@RoverDude Hi, encounter a specific bug three times in a row, so I think I found exactly what and when triggers it:

I have both LS and MKS installed, so I am not sure which one has the problem, but its definitely USI bug.
Basically, in non-English KSP versions, if any kerbal runs out of habitation time, then upon recovery its "crew =" value is assigned a translated word for that profession in the local language.
So, instead of "crew = pilot", that specific kerbal is saved as "crew = пилот" in ru version, - that strips all kerbals below him on the roster from all abilities, but in save file only that string remains corrupted.
I encountered corruptions of "pilot" and "scientist".

Changing that one word manually with text editor un-corrupts the kerbal roster - but it repeats every time habitation check fails.

Here are more details about this bug. Thank you.

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6 minutes ago, Kerbal101 said:

Would you please open this one for me? Or anyone who has an account there? Its pretty repeatable. Thanks!

Will do, but it might be a good idea to get an account.

EDIT: Done as #259

Edited by voicey99
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On 7/28/2017 at 5:48 AM, voicey99 said:

The best way to get through Eve's atmosphere is to use flywheels and fins together.  For example, this vessel can handle the 6G of deceleration necessary for an Eve landing with ease-it's rated for Jooldiving as well, should you feel the need to send it into a gas giant:

 

 

 

Used cheat to teleport into orbit & had the easiest re-entry curve and this thing spins out of control & blows up at 1G. So either your mod makes it easier or having vessels weight 1/20 makes it easier. Also the COM is next to the heatshield which is ez-mode since the vessel's weight is 80% of the karbarundum fuel. In any other real vessel the COM would be further away from the heatshield, but ya spins out at 1g.

Edited by protoz
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9 hours ago, protoz said:
Used cheat to teleport into orbit & had the easiest re-entry curve and this thing spins out of control & blows up at 1G. So either your mod makes it easier or having vessels weight 1/20 makes it easier. Also the COM is next to the heatshield which is ez-mode since the vessel's weight is 80% of the karbarundum fuel. In any other real vessel the COM would be further away from the heatshield, but ya spins out at 1g.

Delta-Deluxes are awful, that's why. They only have 0.13 relative control surface area, compared with 0.61 for a tail fin. You might also want to secure your flywheels with some struts.

It's also entirely possible that for proportionally heavier vessels you need proportionally more fins or ones that are further back.

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16 hours ago, voicey99 said:

Delta-Deluxes are awful, that's why. They only have 0.13 relative control surface area, compared with 0.61 for a tail fin. You might also want to secure your flywheels with some struts.

It's also entirely possible that for proportionally heavier vessels you need proportionally more fins or ones that are further back.

If im gonna add several tons of fins and structural support for them i might as well just add a second 10m heatshield & more torque and call it a day. Which was my original way of entering Eve's atmorsphere w. 100t+ crafts.

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Not sure which mod thread this should go to, but I have 3 duplicate categories in the VAB, maybe SPH also, didn't check. 

Construction, Logistics, Manufacturing.

I tried deleting and reinstalling RD mods, but they are still there.

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8 minutes ago, Vorg said:

Not sure which mod thread this should go to, but I have 3 duplicate categories in the VAB, maybe SPH also, didn't check. 

Construction, Logistics, Manufacturing.

I tried deleting and reinstalling RD mods, but they are still there.

It sounds like you've got a duplicate install of USI tools somewhere. Try opening your ksp.log file in a text editor and searching for USITools.dll. There should be only one entry at GameData\000_USITools\USITools.dll. If there are any others you'll need to remove the extra folder from your install.

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