[1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[RoverDude]

You must feel horrible then for all of the ones that have no IVA

 

[goldenpsp]

3 hours ago, Daveroski said:

It just feels wrong somehow, the kerbals sitting for days or weeks at a time (let alone months or even years) in the dark like that. OK.. it's silly.. but it makes me choose a different pod with added life support modules. Heavier and more expensive but at least then it feels like the kerbals can do their jigsaw puzzles. After all, adding life support to the game is about keeping your kerbals happy and comfortable. As this would otherwise be the pod of choice, I look forward to a speedy fix.

 

 

@RoverDude takes pull requests.  IIRC he has mentioned numerous times that IVA's are his least favorite modding activity, so the speediest fix would be to try your hand at IVA's.  Here is a handy video

 

 

[RoverDude]

I'd also add that since the camera issue is not in any way a gameplay issue (just a cosmetic one) that it's priority is exceptionally low.

[ss8913]

so when I drop a DIY container and expand it.. is there any way to know (or configure) what the orientation of the final product would be?  ie if I want a certain piece of the base facing a certain compass direction, how does the translation of the orientation in the VAB to the orientation of the way the DIY kit is placed on the ground, map out?

[Electrocutor]

Are the bed of the Karibou Cargo Bay and Flatbed supposed to be bronze-plated or what was their intended material? I'm working on a PBR cfg for USI parts.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Electrocutor

[Terwin]

On 11/21/2017 at 4:36 AM, jinks said:

So, just as an open-ended question, how hard would it be to slap together the PDU code with the CommNet relay/LOS features of stock and have a *simple* beamed power system that can move EC from near Kerbol to my drones near Eeloo? Is this something that fits with USI suite, or should I rather pose that question towards @Nertea and his Near Future line of mods?

Seems like the hardest part would be to determine when and how much power the solar satellite could supply and to which base(s).

If you try to use something like the planetary warehouse you suddenly have infinite battery storage with no cost or weight requirements.

Using anything other than catch-up mechanics requires some sort of real-time estimation/simulation(otherwise you get power when the satellite is in shadow or after the fuel cell should have run out of fuel for example).

Then you get to worry about what other base(s) should also be pulling power from a given satellite and  then recording how long and how much power each of those bases should have power that was already calculated for this particular satellite.

Then what if some of those other bases have solar panels go into shadow, or otherwise have changed power requirements, better simulate those too.

Eventually you may need to end up simulating in nearly real-time everything that is in range of your microwave power transmission.  This is why wireless power couplers are so much easier than long range beamed power:  it only works for things already in the physics bubble.  Unfortunately, that limitation makes a solar satellite just about useless.

 

There are of course some workarounds, such as evenly dividing available power among all receivers so that you only need to simulate everything that has a power transmitter(of course having a series of surface solar plants and orbital relay stations would still require a great deal of simulation overhead)

Unless the developer is willing to ignore potential transmitter status changes or has some seriously clever ideas, microwave power transmission outside the physics bubble sounds like a major headache. 

[jinks]

51 minutes ago, Terwin said:

Seems like the hardest part would be to determine when and how much power the solar satellite could supply and to which base(s).

KSPI only supplies the active vessel, which is fine in my book.

52 minutes ago, Terwin said:

Using anything other than catch-up mechanics requires some sort of real-time estimation/simulation(otherwise you get power when the satellite is in shadow or after the fuel cell should have run out of fuel for example).

Then you get to worry about what other base(s) should also be pulling power from a given satellite and  then recording how long and how much power each of those bases should have power that was already calculated for this particular satellite.

Then what if some of those other bases have solar panels go into shadow, or otherwise have changed power requirements, better simulate those too.

Eventually you may need to end up simulating in nearly real-time everything that is in range of your microwave power transmission.  This is why wireless power couplers are so much easier than long range beamed power:  it only works for things already in the physics bubble.  Unfortunately, that limitation makes a solar satellite just about useless.

Catch-up is probably "good enough"™. Transmitters could store their max generator capacity, no relay-transmitter hybrids and for LOS checking and inverse square law we already have a working CommNet which could probably be hooked in some way.

 

I'm not looking for a complex system-wide power distribution network that takes all the moving parts into account. I'm quite fine with "which transmitters can this vessel reach and how much can they supply right now". My two main use-cases are light probes that can run on beamed electrical power instead of heavy reactors or panel spam, and to "route solar power around occlusions".

[RoverDude]

3 hours ago, ss8913 said:

so when I drop a DIY container and expand it.. is there any way to know (or configure) what the orientation of the final product would be?  ie if I want a certain piece of the base facing a certain compass direction, how does the translation of the orientation in the VAB to the orientation of the way the DIY kit is placed on the ground, map out?

This is something I am looking at adding to that model.

 

1 hour ago, Terwin said:

Unless the developer is willing to ignore potential transmitter status changes or has some seriously clever ideas,

The latter

[techgamer16]

I cant seem to transfer water throughout my vessel, and it seems that the storage tanks and drills for water have to be directly connected to the module that uses it (the agricultural module). Is this a bug or a purposely implemented feature as it does make it difficult to have bases with flex-o-tubes connecting to the drilling section that's seperate from the rest of the base.

[RoverDude]

2 minutes ago, techgamer16 said:

I cant seem to transfer water throughout my vessel, and it seems that the storage tanks and drills for water have to be directly connected to the module that uses it (the agricultural module). Is this a bug or a purposely implemented feature as it does make it difficult to have bases with flex-o-tubes connecting to the drilling section that's seperate from the rest of the base.

I recall that was a KIS/KAS issue, if someone can confirm?

[sh1pman]

11 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

I recall that was a KIS/KAS issue, if someone can confirm?

Yea, it’s a KAS issue, it only happens with water. Water can’t flow through KAS pipes and their MKS variants for some reason. Local warehouse can help dealing with it.

[techgamer16]

9 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

Yea, it’s a KAS issue, it only happens with water. Water can’t flow through KAS pipes and their MKS variants for some reason. Local warehouse can help dealing with it.

Right ok so I basically have a local warehouse configured to water thats attached directly to the agriculture module?

[RoverDude]

So weird... do we have any idea why?   Only thing I can think of is if water (one of the oldest CRP resources) is using a deprecated flow mode or something

[sh1pman]

Just now, techgamer16 said:

Right ok so I basically have a local warehouse configured to water thats attached directly to the agriculture module?

Yes and also another local warehouse (container, ISM, or anything else) where your drills are. 

[techgamer16]

5 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

Yes and also another local warehouse (container, ISM, or anything else) where your drills are. 

Thanks very much ill try that.

[ss8913]

2 hours ago, techgamer16 said:

I cant seem to transfer water throughout my vessel, and it seems that the storage tanks and drills for water have to be directly connected to the module that uses it (the agricultural module). Is this a bug or a purposely implemented feature as it does make it difficult to have bases with flex-o-tubes connecting to the drilling section that's seperate from the rest of the base.

use TAC fuel balancer... will let you transfer resources between containers.  Certain resources such as some nuclear fuels are specifically excluded, but everything else, water included, can be transferred with this handy mod.  It's a pretty old mod, but it's still actively maintained and has no other dependencies.

[tsaven]

19 minutes ago, ss8913 said:

use TAC fuel balancer... will let you transfer resources between containers.  Certain resources such as some nuclear fuels are specifically excluded, but everything else, water included, can be transferred with this handy mod.  It's a pretty old mod, but it's still actively maintained and has no other dependencies.

You shouldn't need this, as MKS has local logistics transferring feature built into it.  As you mentioned, a few resources are excluded but it works great for almost anything else.

2 hours ago, techgamer16 said:

Right ok so I basically have a local warehouse configured to water thats attached directly to the agriculture module?

To be clear, you'll need an MKS container for water on both of your vessels, with Local Logistics enabled for them (via the right-click menu), and they need to be within 150m of each other.  The little backpack style container works perfectly fine, but keep in mind that for maximum efficiency each building should be able to hold 6 hours worth of production (on the drilling side) and consumption (on the Agri side).  So for example if you've got a drilling rig that's outputting 250u of water per hour, your drilling rig should be capable of holding 1500u of water.

This is to allow for the catch-up mechanics to work properly if you've been away from the base for any period of time, so that it can accurately calculate how much should have been manufactured and transferred when you weren't looking at the base specifically.

Edited November 22, 2017 by tsaven

[voicey99]

24 minutes ago, tsaven said:

To be clear, you'll need an MKS container for water on both of your vessels, with Local Logistics enabled for them (via the right-click menu), and they need to be within 150m of each other.  The little backpack style container works perfectly fine, but keep in mind that for maximum efficiency each building should be able to hold 6 hours worth of production (on the drilling side) and consumption (on the Agri side).  So for example if you've got a drilling rig that's outputting 250u of water per hour, your drilling rig should be capable of holding 1500u of water.

This is to allow for the catch-up mechanics to work properly if you've been away from the base for any period of time, so that it can accurately calculate how much should have been manufactured and transferred when you weren't looking at the base specifically.

For LL I believe you need 60h of storage as stuff only transfers in 10% chunks each 6h tick. Even for PL you need 12h since kontainers only empty down/fill to to half full.

[tsaven]

16 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

For LL I believe you need 60h of storage as stuff only transfers in 10% chunks each 6h tick. Even for PL you need 12h since kontainers only empty down/fill to to half full.

Did not know that detail, thanks for clarifying.  I think it transfers in more than 10% chunks though, when I've watched by bases in time warp it seems like it'll do 50% chunks?  Or maybe that's specific just to EC?

[Daveroski]

8 hours ago, goldenpsp said:

@RoverDude takes pull requests.  IIRC he has mentioned numerous times that IVA's are his least favorite modding activity, so the speediest fix would be to try your hand at IVA's.  Here is a handy video

 

8 hours ago, RoverDude said:

I'd also add that since the camera issue is not in any way a gameplay issue (just a cosmetic one) that it's priority is exceptionally low.

Just trying to help.. 

 

[voicey99]

Just now, tsaven said:

Did not know that detail, thanks for clarifying.  I think it transfers in more than 10% chunks though, when I've watched by bases in time warp it seems like it'll do 50% chunks?  Or maybe that's specific just to EC?

There seems to be some separate stuff dealing with EC (it isn't part of the main LL module), and as far as I can see there doesn't look to be a tick limiter, though I could be wrong since I'm restricted to "I think this does this" insofar as reading code is concerned. The 10% resource transfer limit is baked into the DLL and explicitly commented on here at line 211 and 223.

[Daveroski]

8 hours ago, RoverDude said:

You must feel horrible then for all of the ones that have no IVA

 

I was referring to the portraits. Not IVA.

[tsaven]

12 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

There seems to be some separate stuff dealing with EC (it isn't part of the main LL module), and as far as I can see there doesn't look to be a tick limiter, though I could be wrong since I'm restricted to "I think this does this" insofar as reading code is concerned. The 10% resource transfer limit is baked into the DLL and explicitly commented on here at line 211 and 223.

Interesting, thank you.

I do have a question about EC with regards to local transfer though.  I've got a structure with 9 refineries on it, and it can't seem to transfer EC fast enough when I've got more than six of them running.  Even though I've got a reactor next door that's putting out plenty of EC, the EC transfer mechanic happens infrequently enough that the structure runs out of power for a while, until it gets another burst of EC up to about half capacity, but then runs down to empty again before the next burst.

Is this by design that there's a limit, or is there a way to let it transfer more in one burst?

[voicey99]

3 minutes ago, tsaven said:

Interesting, thank you.

I do have a question about EC with regards to local transfer though.  I've got a structure with 9 refineries on it, and it can't seem to transfer EC fast enough when I've got more than six of them running.  Even though I've got a reactor next door that's putting out plenty of EC, the EC transfer mechanic happens infrequently enough that the structure runs out of power for a while, until it gets another burst of EC up to about half capacity, but then runs down to empty again before the next burst.

Is this by design that there's a limit, or is there a way to let it transfer more in one burst?

Just had a look, the parts of the DLL dealing with power are just extensions to the main ModuleLogisticsConsumer and so power is indeed bound by 10% a tick. I don't know how many ticks there are in a game-second (I believe it can vary?), but to increase transfer rate you should stick on more batteries as 10% of more is more.

[tsaven]

7 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

Just had a look, the parts of the DLL dealing with power are just extensions to the main ModuleLogisticsConsumer and so power is indeed bound by 10% a tick. I don't know how many ticks there are in a game-second (I believe it can vary?), but to increase transfer rate you should stick on more batteries as 10% of more is more.

That's weird, because watching it it definitely transfer much more than 10% ticks, looks like about 50%.  Guess it's time for my kerbals to get out the KAS drill.