RoverDude

[1.3] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

5053 posts in this topic

@DStaal - that's the bit @allista and I are working through now (i.e. how to switch from Metals to MaterialKits without messing up old saves, etc. 

To the latter, my thought was that the generation of brand new DIYKits could be done in-situ (or in orbit).  So you could have an advanced manufacturing facility convert SpecializedParts into new DIY Kits (due to the complexity and challenge of that resource chain) then assemble them locally with MaterialKits (which are easier to salvage or produce).  The net being it completely removed the need to deal with EL, since it's been a challenge for the past year or so trying to sync with Taniwha RE resources.  On my side, I'll be making some new models for GC (probably a combo of stock-alike and akita-alike) while keeping the ones bundled with GC to an absolute minimum since that mod should remain very light weight.

Also - there's going to be a small tweak to ResourceLodes.  Smaller ones that spawn around your base like we have now, and larger ones that can be found via the orbital survey scanner that can be planet wide.  The idea is to give a bit more utility to the orbital survey scanner, and also to help influence base location choice, as these will be excellent sources for initial base construction.

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@RoverDude are you still planning on removing the need for ose aswell with this new mechanic? Glad to know you'll be doing some new models for it too. 

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OSE still dovetails in really well, so that support will remain, no need to change that.  Only bit that ever causes friction is EL.

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The one thing that will limit is building directly in space - but at that point doing that should be pushed out to being a very late-game mechanic.  (I wonder if you could integrate it with ART or Hanger to build on/in asteroids?  Give you a surface or a container to build in, makes some sense...)

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2 minutes ago, DStaal said:

The one thing that will limit is building directly in space - but at that point doing that should be pushed out to being a very late-game mechanic.  (I wonder if you could integrate it with ART or Hanger to build on/in asteroids?  Give you a surface or a container to build in, makes some sense...)

This is also something that we're working on. But it's much more complicated than GC integration.

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3 minutes ago, DStaal said:

The one thing that will limit is building directly in space - but at that point doing that should be pushed out to being a very late-game mechanic.  (I wonder if you could integrate it with ART or Hanger to build on/in asteroids?  Give you a surface or a container to build in, makes some sense...)

I've only ever used EL for building stuff in space, at a station in LKO using MKs and SPs shipped up from Kerbin to be able to build spindly and ungainly crafts that could never survive a conventional launch. How will GC change this?

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1 minute ago, tsaven said:

I've only ever used EL for building stuff in space, at a station in LKO using MKs and SPs shipped up from Kerbin to be able to build spindly and ungainly crafts that could never survive a conventional launch. How will GC change this?

GC only builds on the surfaces of planets or moons.  You could likely build some of the stuff and launch it off of Minmus or something, but you need to be landed to build - even if it's not on Kerbin.

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EL support will remain as-is for now, as it's working even though it is a friction point sometimes.  I was about to build my own thing, but since what Allista has is pretty much in line with what I had in mind, decided collaboration was the way to go with this one :)  As noted, orbital is more complex but being worked on.  Once the dust settles, it's going to be pretty sweet, with very nice integration and shiny parts.

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1 minute ago, DStaal said:

GC only builds on the surfaces of planets or moons.  You could likely build some of the stuff and launch it off of Minmus or something, but you need to be landed to build - even if it's not on Kerbin.

Damn, I REALLY hope that changes with RDs implementation. I feel orbital construction to be an almost mandatory feature, taking it away by dropping EL would be a really awful downgrade. 

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1 minute ago, tsaven said:

I've only ever used EL for building stuff in space, at a station in LKO using MKs and SPs shipped up from Kerbin to be able to build spindly and ungainly crafts that could never survive a conventional launch. How will GC change this?

GC won't change this. Hangar will by being able to disassemble stored ships (any debris actually) into parts, then reassemble them into new vessels. The idea is to also integrate it with KIS so that disassembled parts were accessible through KIS inventory; and so that parts for construction could be brought on-board by kerbals and in KIS containers. This is not a production line as ELP, but gives pretty much the same feeling. And we could always add some sort of part production pipeline in an asteroid base...

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Not my implementation, @allista's :)  and see above, EL is not being dropped (at least not until there is a suitable replacement which includes orbital).  The GC implementation has a lot of elements that I really like, and we see eye to eye regarding the appropriate complexity of off-world construction.

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56 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

0.50.10 - 2017.01.07
--------------------
Added the ExplorerSkill effect and Scout trait.  Explorers (which include Scouts and Pilots) are immune from habitation effects in USI-LS.
Any Kerbal on a planet that has a Kolonization level of 500% and is in a vessel with a habitation rating of 1 year or more will be immune to habitation effects, as this world is now 'Kolonized'.

RD, I'm hesitant to question structural decisions made for a mod that you've stated many times you make for your own enjoyment, but do you think this makes pilots or explorers slightly over-powered? It seems to deviate a bit from the overall theme of USI-LS, or at least my personal take on it. 

Perhaps rather than all pilots being immune, it should be something only for 4 star or 5 star pilots? This would make sense to me, as they're much more experience and comfortable in space, not needing as many ammenities as those young squishy inexperienced newbie kerbals. 

Or perhaps instead of being completely immune, they could have a built-in hab multiplier (tied to stars?) that applies only to them?

Another option I suppose would be limiting it only to Kerbals with a high Courage rating, but I think that's less in line with the feel of your mods. 

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Given the criticality of engineers and scientists, having an exploring pilot is not going to save a colony, and of course they can still starve.  And scouts do not provide any colonization bonuses.  Also remember USI-LS started with orange immunity :)  

If there is overwhelming feedback that this is too OP, it can be reviewed.  But for now, it's something I wanted to play with.

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The price changes introduced last update (0.50.9) have made Tundra modules really cheap-so cheap in fact, that all manufacturing modules (except for the NFP) cost between -40k and -45k to launch dry. For example, the Industrial Refinery supposedly costs 13.6k in cfg but actually costs -44k to launch dry and a whopping 1.6k when full of everything (2k machinery+2k recyclables).

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If something is negative, please log a github issue - thought I had these tested.

 

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Done, see attached screenshots on #1088

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33 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Given the criticality of engineers and scientists, having an exploring pilot is not going to save a colony, and of course they can still starve.  And scouts do not provide any colonization bonuses.  Also remember USI-LS started with orange immunity :)  

If there is overwhelming feedback that this is too OP, it can be reviewed.  But for now, it's something I wanted to play with.

It's likely to make my DeepFreeze-enabled deep space explorer ship quite a bit easier to design (it needs two pilots to stay awake during the trip, to monitor), but I don't see it being to OP without other mods.  At least, at first impression.

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So judging from the fact I just rescued a mechanic, I assume we have a chance of getting the new kerbals with rescue missions....

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Found a strange bug. The inflatable Ranger hab modules have stared tearing my bases apart. The kraken has been awoken! It was introduced in 0.50.9.0 and is present in 0.50.10.0. I've had to revert back to 50.8 for now.

Clean save with only MKS 0.50.8.0 installed - Everything's fine.

dSuahNA.jpg

Clean Save With Only MKS 0.50.9.0 Installed

euw1b9o.jpg

Save with only MKS installed https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_nRjcqonDoUbzRIT0JOd1psWnM/view?usp=sharing

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Hiya,

@RoverDude, typo on the USI Core Github: The Blue Header says 0.3.6, the zip is 0.3.6, the black title says 0.3.4.

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16 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

@dboi88 odd, given nothing changed with those parts

I know how strange it sounds. I tested so many times before i posted to be sure.

I've just checked it all again, fresh copy of KSP + MKS 50.8 everything's fine, nothing moves or wobbles, delete MKS and install 50.9, load the same save and craft and the thing wobbles it'self right off the runway before tearing itself apart. 100% reproducible but no idea why it's happening.

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4 hours ago, tsaven said:

RD, I'm hesitant to question structural decisions made for a mod that you've stated many times you make for your own enjoyment, but do you think this makes pilots or explorers slightly over-powered? It seems to deviate a bit from the overall theme of USI-LS, or at least my personal take on it. 

Perhaps rather than all pilots being immune, it should be something only for 4 star or 5 star pilots? This would make sense to me, as they're much more experience and comfortable in space, not needing as many ammenities as those young squishy inexperienced newbie kerbals. 

Or perhaps instead of being completely immune, they could have a built-in hab multiplier (tied to stars?) that applies only to them?

Another option I suppose would be limiting it only to Kerbals with a high Courage rating, but I think that's less in line with the feel of your mods. 

I haven't tried the new mechanics yet (TBH, I haven't really made a USI colony since 0.50 was introduced), but I agree with @tsaven. Since this rule affects all ships and not just bases, it seems even more OP to me. It means I can send a pilot, even a rookie, in a tin can to Eeloo, right?

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5 minutes ago, garwel said:

I haven't tried the new mechanics yet (TBH, I haven't really made a USI colony since 0.50 was introduced), but I agree with @tsaven. Since this rule affects all ships and not just bases, it seems even more OP to me. It means I can send a pilot, even a rookie, in a tin can to Eeloo, right?

Pilots and explorers still need supplies, they just don't mind being in cramped spaces or far from home. So you'd still have to pack a lot of food for a trip to Eeloo.

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1 minute ago, garwel said:

I haven't tried the new mechanics yet (TBH, I haven't really made a USI colony since 0.50 was introduced), but I agree with @tsaven. Since this rule affects all ships and not just bases, it seems even more OP to me. It means I can send a pilot, even a rookie, in a tin can to Eeloo, right?

Yes but that pilot still needs supplies, and can't, reset science experiments, perform maintenance, use KAS, gain science, botany, agronmony, medical, rep, funds, drill, convertor, repair, biology, geology or logistics bonuses.

If your playing a Kolonisation game then they aren't OP. IMO they'd only be OP in a Stock + Life Support Scenario.

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