[1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[Krakatoa]

4 hours ago, Yaddon said:

Thank you for the help!

I've updated the CTT and it seems that it is solved, or at least part of it XD. 

Now I have the tech tree without the three gears, and some of them unlock parts too, but there are still some of them that.

Here's more screenshots:

 

 

There's a number of empty nodes across the tree unless you pick up other mods to fill them.

[Yaddon]

4 hours ago, Krakatoa said:

There's a number of empty nodes across the tree unless you pick up other mods to fill them.

And you know which mods are missing?

Thank you for the help btw.

[Krakatoa]

26 minutes ago, Yaddon said:

And you know which mods are missing?

Thank you for the help btw.

There's no one mod. Even on my heaviest install, I didn't manage to fill them, and very few mod makers actually use the deepest nodes.

[terrendos]

I stopped playing KSP a year or so ago, so I'm pretty out of the loop. I was thinking of getting back into it, but I was wondering: did this mod ever work out the ability to do the Extraplanetary Launchpads type stuff without Extraplanetary Launchpads? Last I heard was Roverdude had been planning on creating his own version. My dream KSP goal has been to build a base on the Mun or Minmus or whatever and use that base to construct ark ships and put  fully self-sustained colonies on half the KSP solar system. Did that ever get resolved, or do I still need to build those Ground Construction boxes and launch them from Kerbin? I glanced through the past several releases and didn't see it mentioned, but I could have missed it.

[Terwin]

11 minutes ago, terrendos said:

I stopped playing KSP a year or so ago, so I'm pretty out of the loop. I was thinking of getting back into it, but I was wondering: did this mod ever work out the ability to do the Extraplanetary Launchpads type stuff without Extraplanetary Launchpads? Last I heard was Roverdude had been planning on creating his own version. My dream KSP goal has been to build a base on the Mun or Minmus or whatever and use that base to construct ark ships and put  fully self-sustained colonies on half the KSP solar system. Did that ever get resolved, or do I still need to build those Ground Construction boxes and launch them from Kerbin? I glanced through the past several releases and didn't see it mentioned, but I could have missed it.

As the desired functionality is basically Ground Construction + the ability to manufacture DIY kits off Kerbin(which GC is currently working on), I am not aware of any plan for RoverDude to roll his own beyond probably picking up the reins of GC should Allista put them down.

[terrendos]

4 minutes ago, Terwin said:

As the desired functionality is basically Ground Construction + the ability to manufacture DIY kits off Kerbin(which GC is currently working on), I am not aware of any plan for RoverDude to roll his own beyond probably picking up the reins of GC should Allista put them down.

Ah, okay. I had stopped playing before Ground Construction was a thing. I haven't used it but I do quite like the DIY kits approach based on a few videos I've seen on Twitch. If that's an intended feature for Ground Construction in the future, then I can keep waiting. Thanks!

[Terwin]

4 minutes ago, terrendos said:

Ah, okay. I had stopped playing before Ground Construction was a thing. I haven't used it but I do quite like the DIY kits approach based on a few videos I've seen on Twitch. If that's an intended feature for Ground Construction in the future, then I can keep waiting. Thanks!

I think there may have been a miscommunication: DIY kits are here now and you can shoot them off to wherever you would like to build them into bases(or starter basis if you also use OSR Workshop).

In the future OSR Workshop will not be required for anything beyond spare screwdrivers as you will be able to create new DIY kits at your established bases and them send them off to make new bases(or expansions for existing bases).

[terrendos]

3 minutes ago, Terwin said:

I think there may have been a miscommunication: DIY kits are here now and you can shoot them off to wherever you would like to build them into bases(or starter basis if you also use OSR Workshop).

In the future OSR Workshop will not be required for anything beyond spare screwdrivers as you will be able to create new DIY kits at your established bases and them send them off to make new bases(or expansions for existing bases).

Oh, I can use OSE Workshop (which is what I assume you mean, not OSR) to make custom DIY Kits? Yeah, that sounds like I should be able to do everything I want then. GC to allow creation of DIY Kits, OSE to create them on far-flung worlds, all held together with MKS as the foundation.

I don't think I ever used OSE; I'll have to give it a look.

[Kaa253]

@Yaddon Hydroponics is for life support mod parts. If you want MKS to have some game changing functionality and be more than just a collection of pretty parts then you need to install a life support mod.

I would never use anything else but USI-LS with MKS (or without for that matter).

If you have USI Life Support already then it must be installed incorrectly or else the Nom-O-Matic 5000 part, for example, would be showing there under Hydroponics in the tech tree.

If you really want you can also hide those empty tech tree research nodes for which you have no mod installed to provide parts by also installing the Hide Empty Tech Tree Nodes mod.

 

 

[Terwin]

9 hours ago, terrendos said:

Oh, I can use OSE Workshop (which is what I assume you mean, not OSR) to make custom DIY Kits? Yeah, that sounds like I should be able to do everything I want then. GC to allow creation of DIY Kits, OSE to create them on far-flung worlds, all held together with MKS as the foundation.

I don't think I ever used OSE; I'll have to give it a look.

Unfortunately, the only type of DIY kits you can make with OSE Worshop are 'empty' kits, so not useful(assuming this has not been blocked, I have not checked recently).  I use OSE Workshop to build MKS components directly after establishing the initial base(with the largest available storage box) with a DIY Kit.

The biggest problem with OSE is that it only builds things while in focus, and the current version of the core game(1.3.1) has issues with wonky heat at high time-warp(which is over 100x for me), meaning it can take several minutes of real-time waiting for larger parts to print.

[Director Smith]

Quite apart from lacking documentation to demystify some of the more arcane secrets of what one requires to start up a colony, I have just two real issues to bring up.

 

Firstly, once they're unlocked on the tech tree, where on Kerbin do the Kolonization parts show up in the VAB? I can't find them in any of the standard tabs for the life of me! If they're supposed to generate their own then well... They haven't, at least not for me. Is this a bug on my end, or something intentional I'm not getting?

Second, might I humbly suggest that the parts be spread out somewhat along the tech tree? Having them all crammed into Advanced Construction is a touch overwhelming and I'm pretty sure that when you're just struggling to get your first habitats into orbit or onto another world, you're not really looking to be distracted by logistics centres and assembly plants. As a newcomer to the mod, I don't even know where to start anymore as having the whole thing dumped into my lap at once makes it a bit unintuitive. That's just my suggestion on the matter.

 

Oh and if I don't have Karbonite installed, do I still make fuel by using ore the same as in vanilla, or is there some new way this mod introduces to do it? Thank you very much!

[PaladinPizza]

Hello! I'm just curious, will we ever get some custom IVAs for more of the parts in this mod? 

[goldenpsp]

1 hour ago, PaladinPizza said:

Hello! I'm just curious, will we ever get some custom IVAs for more of the parts in this mod? 

Of course I'm not @RoverDude, but given the history (I've been around awhile) and Roverdude's love of creating IVA's (hint, not his favorite thing to do) I wouldn't hold your breath.

That is unless you want to learn to make IVA's in which case he loves Pull requests.

[RoverDude]

heh, yeah another indicator is that I was able to skate out of doing the IVA work for Making History (Pablo was kind enough to take that bullet, and did a great job!).  But never say never

(And it goes without saying - been  a bit busy working on the expansion, looking forward to launch day!)

[DStaal]

11 hours ago, Director Smith said:

Quite apart from lacking documentation to demystify some of the more arcane secrets of what one requires to start up a colony, I have just two real issues to bring up.

 

Firstly, once they're unlocked on the tech tree, where on Kerbin do the Kolonization parts show up in the VAB? I can't find them in any of the standard tabs for the life of me! If they're supposed to generate their own then well... They haven't, at least not for me. Is this a bug on my end, or something intentional I'm not getting?

Second, might I humbly suggest that the parts be spread out somewhat along the tech tree? Having them all crammed into Advanced Construction is a touch overwhelming and I'm pretty sure that when you're just struggling to get your first habitats into orbit or onto another world, you're not really looking to be distracted by logistics centres and assembly plants. As a newcomer to the mod, I don't even know where to start anymore as having the whole thing dumped into my lap at once makes it a bit unintuitive. That's just my suggestion on the matter.

 

Oh and if I don't have Karbonite installed, do I still make fuel by using ore the same as in vanilla, or is there some new way this mod introduces to do it? Thank you very much!

First issue: Make sure you have the latest USI Tools, and that everything's installed correctly.  They should be in their own set of tabs, if everything's working correctly.  (There's a bug in the version of USITools bundled with the most recent version of MKS though - if you grab the newer stand-alone version, you should be good if everything's in the right place.)

Second issue: Try Community Tech Tree.  It offers modders more nodes, and MKS uses this to spread out quite a bit.  (Note though that changing your tech tree mid-save is known to cause some mostly cosmetic issues, as unlocked parts will be in both their old and new locations.)

Fuel is still stock.  (Even installing Karbonite still allows stock fuel.)

[RoverDude]

11 hours ago, Director Smith said:

Quite apart from lacking documentation to demystify some of the more arcane secrets of what one requires to start up a colony, I have just two real issues to bring up.

There's a wiki, and KSPedia.  What is lacking?

 

[Director Smith]

59 minutes ago, DStaal said:

Make sure you have the latest USI Tools, and that everything's installed correctly.  They should be in their own set of tabs, if everything's working correctly.  (There's a bug in the version of USITools bundled with the most recent version of MKS though - if you grab the newer stand-alone version, you should be good if everything's in the right place.)

Aaah this explains a lot. I didn't get the tools stand-alone. I'll grab that and see if it fixes it.

59 minutes ago, DStaal said:

Try Community Tech Tree.  It offers modders more nodes, and MKS uses this to spread out quite a bit.  (Note though that changing your tech tree mid-save is known to cause some mostly cosmetic issues

Hmmm. I'll look into it, but I don't want to have to wrestle with cosmetic issues at this stage. There wasn't any mention of Community Tech Tree elsewhere so I didn't know about it. Maybe I'm just a troglodyte but I'm of the opinion that mods should rely on other mods as little as possible... Still, that's not my place to say I suppose.

 

58 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

There's a wiki, and KSPedia.  What is lacking?

Erk-! I didn't expect RoverDude himself to respond-!

The issue is that your original tutorial is more than a little out of date, with the changes to off-world construction, the removal of oxygen, the inclusion of homesickness and the like; I don't even know where to start, with a pioneer module, a habitat, which countdowns are the most vital to watch, why I need a power distribution module rather than just solar panels and batteries... Crabman's 0.5 documentation is lacking in a number of regards, missing vital segments such as power or manufacturing and serving more as a manual than any kind of guided introduction to the mod's features and functionality. I've been scratching my head about the difference between using dirt or substrate for agriculture even, although whether that's because I'm too dumb and overwhelmed by the data dump into my lap, or because it's poorly taught, I can't tell.

As I mentioned before, the way it's presented in-game, with all the features immediately available to unlock, is awkward too. Rather than letting the player focus first on basic survival, then expanding into first a supported and then self-sustaining colony, the player has to immediately figure out the difference between Ranger, Duna and Tundra-class modules and what each of them does, potentially spending funds on unlocking advanced modules, without first understanding the underlying mechanics of how a colony operates and sustains itself, or manufactures its resources.

Again, I'm sorry to be such a bother; I recognise that the answer to much of this is probably glaringly obvious and I'm just proving to be a loudmouthed noob who can't learn what's right in front of him, but I had no-where else to go. Thank you for taking my problems seriously.

Edited February 28, 2018 by Director Smith

[DStaal]

3 hours ago, Director Smith said:

Hmmm. I'll look into it, but I don't want to have to wrestle with cosmetic issues at this stage. There wasn't any mention of Community Tech Tree elsewhere so I didn't know about it. Maybe I'm just a troglodyte but I'm of the opinion that mods should rely on other mods as little as possible... Still, that's not my place to say I suppose.

MKS doesn't rely on CTT - you've got all the parts, and all of them are accessible to you.  It's just that the stock tech tree doesn't really support some of the depth that CTT does, and so if you have both MKS can spread things out more - and takes advantage of that.

[nascarlaser1]

I know ground construction is bundled, but if I wanted to could I still use EP to build my bases?

[DStaal]

4 minutes ago, nascarlaser1 said:

I know ground construction is bundled, but if I wanted to could I still use EP to build my bases?

Yes.  There's even a set of patches (that can be configured using Patchmanager) to integrate EL to various levels.

[3ngin33r]

If I just delete the lines from the OSE patch that modify the OSE converter, I assume that will just revert it to using ore or will it break something? I know it would be a bit op but I swear I'll only use it for good.   I just want a simple and compact solution for small-scale operations while having the complex system remain for larger scale, Deep Space Surface Habitat Unit Pack already does that for life support. I love MKS but I wish it was balanced better for small-scale, simple things rather than being almost exclusively geared towards large and complex bases. A possible fix would be that level 5 Kerbals don't revert to tourists but instead, revert to level 0 for example. Or having a part that inputs ore, a rover, and a kerbal working in it and produces material kits really inefficiently compared to the complete chain. I'm not asking for that, I'm just explaining why I want to cheat a little. 

[RoverDude]

7 minutes ago, 3ngin33r said:

If I just delete the lines from the OSE patch that modify the OSE converter, I assume that will just revert it to using ore or will it break something? I know it would be a bit op but I swear I'll only use it for good.   I just want a simple and compact solution for small-scale operations while having the complex system remain for larger scale, Deep Space Surface Habitat Unit Pack already does that for life support. I love MKS but I wish it was balanced better for small-scale, simple things rather than being almost exclusively geared towards large and complex bases. A possible fix would be that level 5 Kerbals don't revert to tourists but instead, revert to level 0 for example. Or having a part that inputs ore, a rover, and a kerbal working in it and produces material kits really inefficiently compared to the complete chain. I'm not asking for that, I'm just explaining why I want to cheat a little. 

Deleting the patch should not break anything, no.

[3ngin33r]

7 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Deleting the patch should not break anything, no.

I meant putting // in before just the lines that modify the converter and leaving the rest be. I think it's called commenting out or something, I don't know a lot about coding. I'm sorry if I'm bothersome, I just want to make sure before I break my saves or something. 

[Terwin]

7 minutes ago, 3ngin33r said:

I meant putting // in before just the lines that modify the converter and leaving the rest be. I think it's called commenting out or something, I don't know a lot about coding. I'm sorry if I'm bothersome, I just want to make sure before I break my saves or something. 

If you are worried about breaking your save, copy it to a safe location before you start experimenting.

If you like, you can copy the entire KSP directory, just to be safe.  Then, no matter what, you can restore your game-state by just deleting your messed-up version and copying the saved version back in its place(or just play from the safe location)

The lack of DRM on KSP makes this sort of thing very easy to handle.

[3ngin33r]

2 minutes ago, Terwin said:

If you are worried about breaking your save, copy it to a safe location before you start experimenting.

If you like, you can copy the entire KSP directory, just to be safe.  Then, no matter what, you can restore your game-state by just deleting your messed-up version and copying the saved version back in its place(or just play from the safe location)

The lack of DRM on KSP makes this sort of thing very easy to handle.

I do that already, I just prefer asking to experimenting because it takes the better part of an hour of my HDD running at 100% making my pc unusable to get from clicking on the exe to being in the VAB.