[1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[halx]

21 hours ago, voicey99 said:

Kind of.. there used to be a window within the MKS mod you could open and see what your producing at the colony.. I can't find a way to view how much resources I'm using etc.  Like for instance how much supplies are being consumed vs produced, was this removed? Or am I missing something?  I'm looking for a way to view my general colony production / consumption. 

@halx Not sure if it's what you're looking for, but try this mod.

 

[voicey99]

2 hours ago, halx said:

[blank]

You were saying something?

[Pinchy]

Hi - I am using this mod with GPP.  A question that is regarding performance in that as soon as I have 3 or 4 ships within the same location (not even connected) - the performance grinds to a halt.  I guess it is not specifically related to MKS and more to do with the physics for having to work out all of the ships in the same location - but is there anything I can do about this apart from buying a bigger PC rig (which BTW is pretty good and I have never had problems running most modern games on full/high res)? 

[voicey99]

1 hour ago, Pinchy said:

Hi - I am using this mod with GPP.  A question that is regarding performance in that as soon as I have 3 or 4 ships within the same location (not even connected) - the performance grinds to a halt.  I guess it is not specifically related to MKS and more to do with the physics for having to work out all of the ships in the same location - but is there anything I can do about this apart from buying a bigger PC rig (which BTW is pretty good and I have never had problems running most modern games on full/high res)? 

I believe extreme base lag is a Kopernicus problem (as in just having Kopernicus is enough to cause surface bases to chug like a steam train, part-heavy or not).

I've had issues with my Minmus bases lagging to hell as well (and my computer is certainly no potato), but removing Kopernicus fixed it (pity I like OPM too much to play w/o it)

Edited July 4, 2017 by voicey99

[Alshain]

I'm trying to learn MKS mostly for off-world construction, and for the time being using USI-LS (because all the beginner guides center around life support).

My question is what resource should I be concentrating on when choosing a site?  I saw a listing of items on the Wiki (which I have now lost completely).  The site I am looking at is in the East Crater just south of the arch.  It appears to have a concentration Gypsum, Minerals, and Dirt.  It's lacking Ore, though there are areas surrounding it outside the crater.  Metallic Ore is a bit further for good concentrations, though there is a lower amount nearby.  There is no substrate, again there is a good concentration just outside the crater.

Which of these is likely to be most desirable right under the base?  Would I be better choosing the location inside the crater (Gypsum, Minerals, Dirt) or outside the crater (Substrate, Ore, lower ammounts of Metallic Ore and Gypsum).  Also, is there anything else I need to look for?  If it helps I can provide Scansat screenshots of the area.

[voicey99]

5 minutes ago, Alshain said:

I'm trying to learn MKS mostly for off-world construction, and for the time being using USI-LS (because all the beginner guides center around life support).

My question is what resource should I be concentrating on when choosing a site?  I saw a listing of items on the Wiki (which I have now lost completely).  The site I am looking at is in the East Crater just south of the arch.  It appears to have a concentration Gypsum, Minerals, and Dirt.  It's lacking Ore, though there are areas surrounding it outside the crater.  Metallic Ore is a bit further for good concentrations, though there is a lower amount nearby.  There is no substrate, again there is a good concentration just outside the crater.

Which of these is likely to be most desirable right under the base?  Would I be better choosing the location inside the crater (Gypsum, Minerals, Dirt) or outside the crater (Substrate, Ore, lower ammounts of Metallic Ore and Gypsum).  Also, is there anything else I need to look for?  If it helps I can provide Scansat screenshots of the area.

If you're making stuff for offworld construction, neither of those sites has what you need. You will need metallic ore, substrate and minerals, so either way you will have to ship resources in from an outpost.

DStaal also seems to be very quick on the like clicker.

[DStaal]

3 minutes ago, Alshain said:

I'm trying to learn MKS mostly for off-world construction, and for the time being using USI-LS (because all the beginner guides center around life support).

My question is what resource should I be concentrating on when choosing a site?  I saw a listing of items on the Wiki (which I have now lost completely).  The site I am looking at is in the East Crater just south of the arch.  It appears to have a concentration Gypsum, Minerals, and Dirt.  It's lacking Ore, though there are areas surrounding it outside the crater.  Metallic Ore is a bit further for good concentrations, though there is a lower amount nearby.  There is no substrate, again there is a good concentration just outside the crater.

Which of these is likely to be most desirable right under the base?  Would I be better choosing the location inside the crater (Gypsum, Minerals, Dirt) or outside the crater (Substrate, Ore, lower ammounts of Metallic Ore and Gypsum).  Also, is there anything else I need to look for?  If it helps I can provide Scansat screenshots of the area.

I'd go with the location near the center to start with: Gypsum is needed for Fertilizer, which is your essential LS resource, and Dirt can be processed into everything.  (Though at lower rates than dedicated drills.)  If you had water as well outside the crater I'd consider that - but as a starter base Dirt and Gypsum are a great combo.

Eventually you're going to want drills in other locations as well, since you're going to need most/all of the resources.  Availability of open building space is often a top concern for me for a first base - then you can add on either via direct attachment or local logistics.  You're likely going to be pulling most of your resources via Planetary Logistics in the end anyway - build your base with that assumption.

1 minute ago, voicey99 said:

DStaal also seems to be very quick on the like clicker.

I actually had meant to hit the 'quote' clicker...  But decided it was a good question anyway. 

[voicey99]

1 minute ago, DStaal said:

I'd go with the location near the center to start with: Gypsum is needed for Fertilizer, which is your essential LS resource, and Dirt can be processed into everything.  (Though at lower rates than dedicated drills.)  If you had water as well outside the crater I'd consider that - but as a starter base Dirt and Gypsum are a great combo.

Eventually you're going to want drills in other locations as well, since you're going to need most/all of the resources.  Availability of open building space is often a top concern for me for a first base - then you can add on either via direct attachment or local logistics.  You're likely going to be pulling most of your resources via Planetary Logistics in the end anyway - build your base with that assumption.

Dirt refining is only really suitable for obtaining small quantities of all resources, for more substantial amounts you're going to need drills at some point. Just put the base wherever it's flat (both places have the resources for fertiliser in the beginning) and drop in some unmanned outposts around the place.

And what do you mean, the crater doesn't have any dirt? The biome probability of dirt is fixed at 100%, so all biomes should have it (in varying amounts).

[notthebobo]

20 minutes ago, Alshain said:

I'm trying to learn MKS mostly for off-world construction, and for the time being using USI-LS (because all the beginner guides center around life support).

My question is what resource should I be concentrating on when choosing a site?  I saw a listing of items on the Wiki (which I have now lost completely).  The site I am looking at is in the East Crater just south of the arch.  It appears to have a concentration Gypsum, Minerals, and Dirt.  It's lacking Ore, though there are areas surrounding it outside the crater.  Metallic Ore is a bit further for good concentrations, though there is a lower amount nearby.  There is no substrate, again there is a good concentration just outside the crater.

Which of these is likely to be most desirable right under the base?  Would I be better choosing the location inside the crater (Gypsum, Minerals, Dirt) or outside the crater (Substrate, Ore, lower ammounts of Metallic Ore and Gypsum).  Also, is there anything else I need to look for?  If it helps I can provide Scansat screenshots of the area.

The Wiki Resource's page can help see which resources are required for other resources, but your question seems to be more about strategy.  The base strategy section in the Wiki may be helpful.  Personally, I focus on Life support first, either going agroponics if the area is Gypsum or Water scarce, or Cultivation if these two resources are abundant.

Roverdude provided a good synopsis and some pointers of his game play in the other thread that we managed to save on the Wiki.

[Alshain]

@voicey99 Offsite construction is a far off goal, once I have learned how MKS works.  Right now, I am using LS (I'm not a fan of LS, but for now I am using it) so I need to maintain that.

It does have dirt everywhere, just in enormous concentration in the crater (32% vs 17% outside the crater)

@DStaal There is water outside the crater but not in the same place as the Ore/Substrate area.

I am planning on sending a probe up to 'scout' for suitable building locations (I actually already have 3 from Strategia quests sitting up there will at least half their fuel left, so I'll probably repurpose them).  Right now I'm just trying to get an idea of where to look   

[notthebobo]

18 minutes ago, DStaal said:

Eventually you're going to want drills in other locations as well, since you're going to need most/all of the resources.  Availability of open building space is often a top concern for me for a first base - then you can add on either via direct attachment or local logistics.  You're likely going to be pulling most of your resources via Planetary Logistics in the end anyway - build your base with that assumption.

@Alshain, this.  If you're going to build anything besides a exploration base, plan on finding your resources planet wide, placing automated drillers where the resources are.  Then your main refinery and living areas can be somewhere flat with room to grow.  Using this approach, you can have all your resources stored up before a Kerbal ever sets foot on a planet (or moon).

I like to think that's how we'll do Mars. Quick manned exploration, followed by intensive automated mining and stockpiling and automated manufacturing, then lots of people.

[Alshain]

Well, I think I just found a really good midlands spot west of the Northwest crater.  It has all of the above except Minerals and only small concentrations of Metallic Ore, which are nearby.  I'm going to send a probe there to check it out.  Should also have a nice view of Kerbin, which never hurts.

@notthebobo I probably will eventually but this is my first surface base, I'm just looking for a good place to start to get an understanding of how it all works.

[voicey99]

35 minutes ago, Alshain said:

Well, I think I just found a really good midlands spot west of the Northwest crater.  It has all of the above except Minerals and only small concentrations of Metallic Ore, which are nearby.  I'm going to send a probe there to check it out.  Should also have a nice view of Kerbin, which never hurts.

I probably will eventually but this is my first surface base, I'm just looking for a good place to start to get an understanding of how it all works.

Does that mean you haven't checked the whole planet yet? A view of Kerbin is also good because it gives you LOS for comms with no need for a relaysat.

MKS is a very complex mod with lots of poorly-explained mechanics, and even USI-LS can be confusing at times. Good luck learning experimentally (I gave MKS a pretty full overview here).

[RoverDude]

10 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

MKS is a very complex mod with lots of poorly-explained mechanics

Good thing the Wiki is publicly editable.

[voicey99]

Just now, RoverDude said:

Good thing the Wiki is publicly editable.

.....so it is. I'll work on putting that in eventually.

[RoverDude]

Addendum.

This is also the part where I tell folks to not try to do everything at once.  Start with life support.  Even when I play with the mod, I almost never set up a material kits / machinery production chain till the very end.  You can also turn off machinery wear as a game option when you start off to keep things simple.

[Alshain]

1 minute ago, voicey99 said:

Does that mean you haven't checked the whole planet yet? A view of Kerbin is also good because it gives you LOS for comms with no need for a relaysat.

MKS is a very complex mod with lots of poorly-explained mechanics, and even USI-LS can be confusing at times. Good luck learning experimentally (I gave MKS a pretty full overview here).

What do you mean "checked the whole planet".  I have it scanned (most of it anyway), I'm just browsing over the Scansat maps.  I haven't been everywhere on the planet.

I do have relays already in place (using RT) so that really isn't a huge concern, but a nice view is always... nice.

Yes, I'm realizing it is incredibly complex, but I am determined to figure it out.  Mistakes will be made.  For right now I think I have a spot that is nice and flat (with a slight slope), has a view of Kerbin, and likely has some resources, though I need to send a surface scanner.  Only downside is that it is a bit off the equator, not a terrible situation, but does add a little more effort.

My initial "method of attack" for this is full KIS construction with ranger parts.  Just a basic LS setup.  Everything except the mini truss will be delivered in a KIS ILC-18k.

 

[DStaal]

3 minutes ago, Alshain said:

What do you mean "checked the whole planet".  I have it scanned (most of it anyway), I'm just browsing over the Scansat maps.  I haven't been everywhere on the planet.

 

Quick question: Have you ground-truthed your resources yet?  You should do it at least once in every biome that you're thinking of building in - orbital surveys will get you general averages, but without ground-truthing they can be off by a fair amount.  (Some resources will be spotty, for instance - some points in the biome will be high concentrations, while others may be low or even without them.)

Just double-checking - it's an easy mistake to make early on. 

[Alshain]

Just now, DStaal said:

Quick question: Have you ground-truthed your resources yet?  You should do it at least once in every biome that you're thinking of building in - orbital surveys will get you general averages, but without ground-truthing they can be off by a fair amount.  (Some resources will be spotty, for instance - some points in the biome will be high concentrations, while others may be low or even without them.)

Just double-checking - it's an easy mistake to make early on. 

That's my next step.  I'm building a rover with a scanner to send up there.

[voicey99]

Also a side note: wouldn't Minmus be a slightly more forgiving place for a first colony? The terrain is flatter and the gravity much lower, both allowing for significantly easier construction.

[Alshain]

@voicey99  It's not my first base, it's my first MKS base.  I'm building with KIS, so gravity is only a factor in landing really. (If it weren't for KIS/KAS, I would never build surface bases, not ever. I don't enjoy fighting with docking ports on the surface)

[Loren Pechtel]

1 hour ago, notthebobo said:

@Alshain, this.  If you're going to build anything besides a exploration base, plan on finding your resources planet wide, placing automated drillers where the resources are.  Then your main refinery and living areas can be somewhere flat with room to grow.  Using this approach, you can have all your resources stored up before a Kerbal ever sets foot on a planet (or moon).

I like to think that's how we'll do Mars. Quick manned exploration, followed by intensive automated mining and stockpiling and automated manufacturing, then lots of people.

Another newbie to MKS here:  What would an automated mining base look like?  And is it possible to build one that doesn't need maintenance?

[voicey99]

Just now, Alshain said:

It's not my first base, it's my first MKS base.  I'm building with KIS, so gravity is only a factor in landing really. (If it weren't for KIS/KAS, I would never build surface bases, not ever. I don't enjoy fighting with docking ports on the surface)

Minmus' 0.05g proves much easier to land vessels in as you can slow down close to the surface, reposition just off the ground and then gently drift down and bump onto the surface, which is especially useful with heavy/unwieldy base-delivery craft with low TWR and slow turning. I guess this would be of less importance to KIS-built bases as it doesn't matter which way up the container lands. I've always built my bases with konstruction ports (which allow merging of vessels) and are notoriously finicky, primarily because I've never tried KIS with large Tundra modules-at least Minmus' flats allow for easier lining up. Before MKS, I just used klaws until the Flopping Fish Kraken got hungry.

[Alshain]

1 minute ago, voicey99 said:

Minmus' 0.05g proves much easier to land vessels in as you can slow down close to the surface, reposition just off the ground and then gently drift down and bump onto the surface, which is especially useful with heavy/unwieldy base-delivery craft with low TWR and slow turning. I guess this would be of less importance to KIS-built bases as it doesn't matter which way up the container lands. I've always built my bases with konstruction ports (which allow merging of vessels) and are notoriously finicky, primarily because I've never tried KIS with large Tundra modules-at least Minmus' flats allow for easier lining up. Before MKS, I just used klaws until the Flopping Fish Kraken got hungry.

I haven't tried Tundra yet, but KIS has a "team lift" function.  The more Kerbals you have in close proximity, the more tonnage you can lift (1 ton per Kerbal specifically).  So it's really just the same as building small stuff, only with more Kerbals.  The Tundra 2.5m colonization module is 4tons, so 4 Kerbals can lift it into place and bolt it on with an engineer.  The only difference is a Tundra would have to be shipped on it's own, where as most of the Ranger parts fit in a KIS container (because they are inflatable).  In the end it simply makes surface construction tolerable.

As to the landing, that isn't a concern for me, I've been playing this game a very long time now.

[notthebobo]

14 minutes ago, Alshain said:

@voicey99  It's not my first base, it's my first MKS base.  I'm building with KIS, so gravity is only a factor in landing really. (If it weren't for KIS/KAS, I would never build surface bases, not ever. I don't enjoy fighting with docking ports on the surface)

Two considerations, @Alshain.

First, MKS Logistics allow you to share resources between modules without them being physically connected. No more Kerbitrail mazes inviting the kraken to visit.

Second, Ground Construction DIY kits (now bundled with MKS) can really help setup a base.  Build a full base on Kerbin, box it in a DIY kit, send it up with some material kits (or make them in situ), and the whole thing is built right where you want it.