[1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[DStaal]

1 minute ago, Gooner said:

Hi, ive got a problem with EC charge and how this mod deals with it while on rails. If i have the ship focused then that ship will not deplete its EC throughout its orbit, but if i focus another ship then the ship on rails will lose all its EC within a few days (according to the MKS gui). I have guys on science modules in space stations but atm i have to bounce back and forth between ships to reset their EC because the gui tells me they have run out of charge but when i go back to focus on the ship it shows that it has full charge still.

Yep.  Known oddity with how KSP handles things, and how USI-LS handles things.  Don't worry about it really - the effects aren't being applied until you bring physics into range, and when you bring physics into range your EC production is updated.

[Gooner]

Just now, DStaal said:

Yep.  Known oddity with how KSP handles things, and how USI-LS handles things.  Don't worry about it really - the effects aren't being applied until you bring physics into range, and when you bring physics into range your EC production is updated.

Oh ok cool, so the kerbals will still work in the science labs even though the gui shows no EC? So i can now stop going back (every 6 days) and forth between ships just to reset the EC gui?

[jd284]

2 minutes ago, Gooner said:

Oh ok cool, so the kerbals will still work in the science labs even though the gui shows no EC? So i can now stop going back (every 6 days) and forth between ships just to reset the EC gui?

Yes, the screen is only showing supplies and EC "assuming there's no background production".

The same thing happens when you have fertilizer based supplies production, the screen doesn't take that into account and may say that you've run out when in fact there are enough supplies because of background production.

There's just no way to know what's really going on with a ship's resources until you focus it.

[RoverDude]

6 minutes ago, Gooner said:

Oh ok cool, so the kerbals will still work in the science labs even though the gui shows no EC? So i can now stop going back (every 6 days) and forth between ships just to reset the EC gui?

That GUI is the USI-LS GUI, has nothing to do with your science labs btw.  No difference from stock (which has no UI for EC for unloaded vessels) and the catch-up mechanics, which take into account limitations of battery storage.

[Gooner]

3 minutes ago, jd284 said:

Yes, the screen is only showing supplies and EC "assuming there's no background production".

The same thing happens when you have fertilizer based supplies production, the screen doesn't take that into account and may say that you've run out when in fact there are enough supplies because of background production.

There's just no way to know what's really going on with a ship's resources until you focus it.

Haha i wished i'd known this earlier, i must have gone back and forth 100x . Thanks again you have saved me alot of messing around.

[RoverDude]

Side note - the reason it shows like that is for those rescue missions where they have lost power generation

[jd284]

I recently discovered the "silo" style of base design. It works pretty well, at least on low-gravity moons like Phobos.

Also it almost seems like this is the intended orientation of Tundra modules, since when you turn on the inside view the kerbals are upright this way, whereas they're hanging sideways when the module is horizontal.

[voicey99]

9 minutes ago, jd284 said:

I recently discovered the "silo" style of base design. It works pretty well, at least on low-gravity moons like Phobos.

<schnip>

Also it almost seems like this is the intended orientation of Tundra modules, since when you turn on the inside view the kerbals are upright this way, whereas they're hanging sideways when the module is horizontal.

Browsing this thread is not good for my self-esteem, all these base pictures put my plus-shaped train of wheeled modules to shame. I'm at a loss as to how all these haphazard, fragmented module stacks always look better than mine.

[jd284]

12 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

Browsing this thread is not good for my self-esteem, all these base pictures put my plus-shaped train of wheeled modules to shame. I'm at a loss as to how all these haphazard, fragmented module stacks always look better than mine.

My Moon base looks like what you describe... maybe it all comes down to how you add new stuff. When you can launch your next expansion and land it within a few days, it tends to look like a grid.

For this base I only launched a Tundra Pioneer/LC with sufficient material kits and specialized parts to bootstrap first material kits production (using EL and OSE Workshop to build parts), later machinery and now specialized parts. So it's all organic growth, and looks it.

Also I guess the choice of moon or planet matters, it's easier to build like this on low-gravity moons where gravity won't try to pull it apart.

[voicey99]

2 minutes ago, jd284 said:

My Moon base looks like what you describe... maybe it all comes down to how you add new stuff. When you can launch your next expansion and land it within a few days, it tends to look like a grid.

For this base I only launched a Tundra Pioneer/LC with sufficient material kits and specialized parts to bootstrap first material kits production (using EL and OSE Workshop to build parts), later machinery and now specialized parts. So it's all organic growth, and looks it.

Also I guess the choice of moon or planet matters, it's easier to build like this on low-gravity moons where gravity won't try to pull it apart.

I guess that's the price of a prefabricated, rapid growth with minimalist efficiency in mind. My Minmus dungheap is basically the base equivalent of a '60s brutalist tower block-and an unfinished one at that.

It can't even stay on the same spot-if the ground tether is released it dubsteps itself to pieces and that machinery kontainer on the left used to be next to the REX container. If I build another, it'll be either a proper kolony on Laythe or a refuelling outpost on Bop (unless I find a convenient asteroid orbiting Jool from OPM/Custom Asteroids)-I've learned a few lessons in design since starting Minmus and further-away spots will force me to use some more varid non-Tundra modules. In that case, either way, it'll look better (like your base or my other beast currently en route to Dres).

[PolecatEZ]

For my second Minmus base I just dropped everything in modules and hooked them up where they landed.  The central tower went down first, and then I tried to flag LZ's surrounding it...which worked out more or less with a few minor mishaps.  The problem is that this turns into a major lag fest that's nearly impossible to visit, even on my super beef machine.

So for the Mun base I used a different approach with the help of SpaceY, just build the sucker entirely self-contained and drop it in one go.  It uses about half the parts as a piecemeal base.  Another pro-tip is to use a passenger compartment to keep most of your kerbals in one place.  Very few functions require a kerbal to be in a specific part (training, medical).  I would even go so far as to say drop the base, and then hook up a lander with just the kerbals later so you can rotate them out easily.

[ExavierMacbeth]

Here is my slowly growing monstrosity on Minmus.

http://imgur.com/a/LxBBa

I've used KIS/KAS to reconfigure the thing quite a bit as it grew and after I got some materialkits working I just started sending up DIY module clusters (the block of parts near the top), assembling them on the spot, and then attaching them as needed.

Still trying to understand how some of the modules work though. Specifically Hab-Commons & Colonization which don't seem to be affecting the USI-LS timers.

[voicey99]

18 minutes ago, PolecatEZ said:

For my second Minmus base I just dropped everything in modules and hooked them up where they landed.  The central tower went down first, and then I tried to flag LZ's surrounding it...which worked out more or less with a few minor mishaps.  The problem is that this turns into a major lag fest that's nearly impossible to visit, even on my super beef machine.

<schnip>

So for the Mun base I used a different approach with the help of SpaceY, just build the sucker entirely self-contained and drop it in one go.  It uses about half the parts as a piecemeal base.  Another pro-tip is to use a passenger compartment to keep most of your kerbals in one place.  Very few functions require a kerbal to be in a specific part (training, medical).  I would even go so far as to say drop the base, and then hook up a lander with just the kerbals later so you can rotate them out easily.

<schnip>

I started my Minmus base before I got into using KIS/KAS, which, for lack of flexotubes or buildable struts and the fact that klaws look awful, meant I had pretty much no option other than to make it all one big structure with Konstruction to try and keep lag down. Even so, I wasn't very successful, it still chugs like a steam train at 4fps and 1/2 speed like I have a (16GB) boat anchor (this lag started back when the base was very small, and thankfully didn't scale with size). Building it as one colossal single launch probably won't work for me, since it will result in having redundant parts and inevitably forgetting things which will need to be shipped over and bolted on later. On a side note, habrings would be of limited use on the Mun and Minmus, since you can switch the crew over in just a few days.

6 minutes ago, ExavierMacbeth said:

Still trying to understand how some of the modules work though. Specifically Hab-Commons & Colonization which don't seem to be affecting the USI-LS timers.

Colonisation only provides hab immunity when over 500% and your base has at least 1yr of hab. All inflatable hab modules also require machinery to run (efficiency is proportional to how much machinery is in it), and the Ranger hab's common mode is currently broken.

Edited February 21, 2017 by voicey99

[ExavierMacbeth]

Ok then the guide isn't very clear on that. The Colonization Immunity at 500% is listed on the details of the Colony Panel and sounds like it is all or nothing as a whole. The Colonization Module information just states that it consumes Colony Supplies to slowly raise the timers until they max out & then holds them there. Doesn't mention that there is any other requirement.

Machinery isn't a problem & I knew about the Ranger Hab bug so those are both configured as Quarters. But a couple of the new Tundra Modules are Kerbitats configured as Commons and they don't seem to be helping. Do they require Machinery? And if so, are the suppose to actually have a machinery inventory that they are missing? My Kerbitats only hold electric charge.

[PolecatEZ]

7 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

Building it as one colossal single launch probably won't work for me, since it will result in having redundant parts and inevitably forgetting things which will need to be shipped over and bolted on later. On a side note, habrings would be of limited use on the Mun and Minmus, since you can switch the crew over in just a few days.

Colonisation only provides hab immunity when over 500% and your base has at least 1yr of hab. All inflatable hab modules also require machinery to run (efficiency is proportional to how much machinery is in it), and the Ranger hab's common mode is currently broken.

These are my second bases for each of these moons, so I basically had a massive checklist I ticked off to make sure nothing was forgotten.  My first bases were...not efficient at all.  As for massive hab rings, I like to leave these at "fire and forget" so I aim for the 50 year permanency bonus right out of the gate.  If you also dedicate a few large tanks to supplies - and turn off planetary logistics for all but one - you can effectively ignore your base for a year or two at a time.  This means I'm not spending long minutes loading into the lag fest(s) every time I timewarp an interplanetary mission.  Check in, check the rewards, top off the supply tanks, check out.

For the machinery issue, don't leave machinery on planetary logistics at all while your machinery chain is running.  This means that all machinery deposits will fill in all the parts slowly without any intervention.

[voicey99]

3 minutes ago, ExavierMacbeth said:

Ok then the guide isn't very clear on that. The Colonization Immunity at 500% is listed on the details of the Colony Panel and sounds like it is all or nothing as a whole. The Colonization Module information just states that it consumes Colony Supplies to slowly raise the timers until they max out & then holds them there. Doesn't mention that there is any other requirement.

Machinery isn't a problem & I knew about the Ranger Hab bug so those are both configured as Quarters. But a couple of the new Tundra Modules are Kerbitats configured as Commons and they don't seem to be helping. Do they require Machinery? And if so, are the suppose to actually have a machinery inventory that they are missing? My Kerbitats only hold electric charge.

Oh, you mean the colonisation module? No, they do not have a colonisation requirement (but they do require the aforementioned CSP), and I'm not aware of any other requirement. If your habcap is low, it will hold it at that low value, but when the vessel is unloaded I don't think it accounts for that so you will still see the timer ticking down (it will revert on vessel load catchup). Kerbitats don't require machinery either-are you sure they aren't working? Try seeing the difference between them turned on and off.

And @PolecatEZ since when has 50yrs meant permanent hab?

[ExavierMacbeth]

@voicey99 Turning it off for a bit & back on (even with time warping between them a bit while the base is active) doesn't seem to be doing anything. I'm wondering if my base is glitched. Some of the kerbals show with 8 years Home (2 years hab) while others are showing as 400 days. Think i will send out a crew shuttle & send everyone home to just reset them. I'm pretty much waiting for my EVE flyby crew to get home with more science anyway.

 

EDIT: And yes the weird timers are on Kerbals that shipped out together to begin with lol

Edited February 21, 2017 by ExavierMacbeth

[voicey99]

33 minutes ago, ExavierMacbeth said:

EDIT: And yes the weird timers are on Kerbals that shipped out together to begin with lol

Did you transfer them between vessels? That might have reset their hab timers.

[PolecatEZ]

19 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

And @PolecatEZ since when has 50yrs meant permanent hab?

I remember vaguely it was mentioned by RD somewhere, but I didn't see it in the patch notes.  I do know it works.

Spoiler

 

[ExavierMacbeth]

11 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

Did you transfer them between vessels? That might have reset their hab timers.

Thats why I am thinking they might have glitched. All the vessel changes that ended up being made while constructing the base. I am not sure if some of the pieces I separated had Kerbals in them at the time but that might explain some of the lower numbers, and they just didn't reset when it got re-attached.

Going to ship them all home, finish the base, and then send them all back up there fresh.

[RoverDude]

@voicey99 -  50 year perma-hab has been around for a few weeks now

[Terwin]

11 hours ago, Kaa253 said:

Unless my install is bugged? Take a probe core slap on an empty 2.5m flat Kontainer tank. Set it to specialized parts and leave it empty. Cost in VAB is now 2,345 funds. Save the vessel. Start a new vessel. Grab a DIY Kit and pack the saved vessel - bang! Now context menu shows Kit Cost 146,445 funds which is basically the cost of a 2.5m tank full of specialized parts.

Make certain you touch the DIY kit in some way as I see a lag in the VAB cost computation. Is this a symptom of something wrong with my install? Should I start pulling mods one at a time? Nobody has confirmed this in either forum thread at all.

Ok, did some testing, turns out that the cost is approximately the cost of the fully loaded vessel.

Doing things like emptying out EU will reduce the weight and thus the number of material kits needed for reconstruction, but not the cost of the vessel.

After trying it out in-game, I would be forced to agree that building your cargo-return vessel on-site with GC will not let you make any profit unless you repaint the cargo container after building it.

[voicey99]

6 hours ago, RoverDude said:

@voicey99 -  50 year perma-hab has been around for a few weeks now

Well that's good to know. Now I wish I had built everything with that in mind (all my stations are probably 49yrs and 425 days or something ). Time for some orbital surgery.

[ExavierMacbeth]

@voicey99 Ok so I sent all the kerbals home, finished constructing the base (at least until I unlock the remaining modules) and then brought them back. After boarding them individually with the Hab-Common Tundra On/Off separately it doesn't look like its having any affect on the timers still. Possibly affected by the same issue as the Ranger module then?

[voicey99]

14 minutes ago, ExavierMacbeth said:

@voicey99 Ok so I sent all the kerbals home, finished constructing the base (at least until I unlock the remaining modules) and then brought them back. After boarding them individually with the Hab-Common Tundra On/Off separately it doesn't look like its having any affect on the timers still. Possibly affected by the same issue as the Ranger module then?

I tested it, the Tundra commons work just fine.