KSP Weekly: We’re back!

[asmi]

33 minutes ago, regex said:

It's probably because I feel KSP is "feature complete" as of 1.2 and that all I really want to see are refinements at this point that I don't particularly care what gets added unless it completely screws up how things are.

Well I can think of at least one thing - KSP is loooong time overdue for graphics overhaul. Current version is not 2017-year as far as graphics s concerned, and more like 2010-ish. Average gaming computer is not a calculator anymore, you know, and can handle quite a bit more.

 

35 minutes ago, regex said:

I mean, they're certainly not going to rethink career mode.

That would be number 2 on my list - current career is just borderline unplayable, and it's always been that way. Here I have to confess - I've never actually had enough patience to complete stock career (as in - unlock all R&D tree and reach all milestones). I enjoyed RP-0 career much more, and would be glad to give it another try once I have some free time and when all mods are stabilised for 1.2.2.

39 minutes ago, regex said:

Would be nice but It'll never happen.

"A man can dream" (C) 

 

39 minutes ago, regex said:

E: I also find it funny how Squad is revered as a company that did EA right; I don't think so in the slightest. Many other indie devs have done it much, much better, providing a clear picture of where they want to take the game and setting expectations. Squad set expectations of "we're not going to tell" and instead relied on hype, so instead of a roadmap we get an orgiastic "hype train" thread on the forums.

I stand by my suggestion that they don't want to publish these things because they themselves are not sure if they can deliver (which is a problem of management, and not a technical one). And this whole "super secret" business IMHO is just plain childish and is completely out of place for professional software development shop.

[regex]

37 minutes ago, asmi said:

Well I can think of at least one thing - KSP is loooong time overdue for graphics overhaul.

I consider that a "refinement", same as localisation. The terms are personal.

Quote

That would be number 2 on my list - current career is just borderline unplayable, and it's always been that way. Here I have to confess - I've never actually had enough patience to complete stock career (as in - unlock all R&D tree and reach all milestones).

It's tedious, that's for sure, and your end-game is basically restart the tech tree or play sandbox.

Quote

I enjoyed RP-0 career much more

I feel it has the same shortcomings. There's a money grind slump about mid tech-tree where you scramble to upgrade buildings made all the more palpable by longer launch times and the need to wait through time warp. The fact that every launch must be managed by the player makes it less of a management program and more of a "micro-management" program. And other things. I don't know if that's solvable but I don't pretend to be a game designer.

I should probably just stick to playing sandbox since that's what drew me into the game.

Quote

I stand by my suggestion that they don't want to publish these things because they themselves are not sure if they can deliver (which is a problem of management, and not a technical one).

They're still gunshy, yeah.

[asmi]

22 minutes ago, regex said:

I consider that a "refinement", same as localisation. The terms are personal.

I think this will actually be pretty substantial change as graphics updates usually require at least tweaking of visual assets too.

As for localisation - as a native Russian speaker, I totally support that functionality. There is a lot of russian-speaking space fans, and for a lot of them language is an issue. For me it's not a big deal as I speak English fairly well, but I can absolutely see how it might be a big deal for some.

30 minutes ago, regex said:

I feel it has the same shortcomings. There's a money grind slump about mid tech-tree where you scramble to upgrade buildings made all the more palpable by longer launch times and the need to wait through time warp. The fact that every launch must be managed by the player makes it less of a management program and more of a "micro-management" program. And other things. I don't know if that's solvable but I don't pretend to be a game designer.

Try using kOS and you'll be mostly watching videos of launches (with occasional "oh shi.!" moments when you mess something up in the script, or when you get an engine failure ). In this mode (I actually instituted a "house rule" to forbid myself any direct control of crafts aside from EVA's of course) it's MUCH more enjoyable. I'm an engineer, so I like engineering challenges, of which manually piloting is not, but kOS turned GNC around into another engineering challenge which I quite enjoyed.

[JAFO]

5 hours ago, regex said:

made all the more palpable by longer launch times and the need to wait through time warp. The fact that every launch must be managed by the player makes it less of a management program and more of a "micro-management" program.

 

5 hours ago, asmi said:

Try using kOS and you'll be mostly watching videos of launches (with occasional "oh shi.!" moments when you mess something up in the script, or when you get an engine failure ). In this mode (I actually instituted a "house rule" to forbid myself any direct control of crafts aside from EVA's of course) it's MUCH more enjoyable. I'm an engineer, so I like engineering challenges, of which manually piloting is not, but kOS turned GNC around into another engineering challenge which I quite enjoyed.

And if you don't want to go the whole kOS route, there's always Gravity Turn for launches.

[regex]

Don't get me wrong, I want those features too, I just don't consider them game-changing in the way that past features were.

5 hours ago, asmi said:

Try using kOS

30 minutes ago, JAFO said:

And if you don't want to go the whole kOS route, there's always Gravity Turn for launches.

I'm a professional developer and prone to burn-out, the last thing I want to do is come home and write or tweak scripts. That's also the reason I stopped modding. And that still doesn't solve the waiting game; the need to pilot every mission makes grind a very real thing in this game, especially when there is no incentive beyond making ends meet to fly a mission. The same holds true for RP-0. I enjoy launching sounding rockets and doing interesting missions but there's a very real period in both RP-0 and stock/vanilla where you need to upgrade buildings and such, and RP-0 extends that with KCT by requiring times to complete buildings and research. I don't want to fly uninteresting missions I'm not invested in, that's the very definition of grind to me.

Edited January 10, 2017 by regex

[CoreI]

On 1/6/2017 at 7:53 PM, SQUAD said:

we were able to track a bug that involves raised/clipped areas on the runway when a Kerbal is doing an EVA on it. This ridge does not only look weird, but it causes small planes to bounce, or even destroys landing gear.

As others have, I have lost several planes to the terrain seams. However, will the patch only fix seams when a Kerbal is on EVA or will it fix the seams regardless of what is in control (My reasoning is that [correct me if I'm wrong] Kerbals are on a different physics level than wheels + landing gear).

Overall sounds good. I hope this 'super secret stuff' is explained in the next couple devnotes KSP Weeklies(?). 

[NoMrBond]

On 1/10/2017 at 11:05 AM, regex said:

Generally those of us who bring up "roadmap" arguments are speaking of the past when things like career mode were being planned having features thrown at a wall to see which stuck. Things turned around once Max left (Not placing blame here, it's just a noteworthy event where communication seemed to change towards more development detail and I, at least, felt more like KSP had a proper roadmap even if I could never see one like the fine folks who make Factorio have done).

Unity Technologies itself (upon which KSP is built), also has a pretty nice roadmap broken down into five sections from live to (essentially) gleam in the eye type stuff.

Oh how I wish the GC, .NET Profile and Runtime upgrades would move up a place or two though

Edited January 11, 2017 by NoMrBond
comma

[passinglurker]

1 hour ago, CoreI said:

I hope this 'super secret stuff' is explained in the next couple devnotes KSP Weeklies(?). 

"devnotes" roll off the tongue way better they should bring back the devnote for this reason alone

Edited January 11, 2017 by passinglurker

[Sirad]

On 8.1.2017 at 7:26 PM, passinglurker said:

I shouldn't have to write the whole gameplay side of things for them to prove that ksp was built on a pile of placeholders assets that they procrastinated returning to that still need to refined and polished they were the ones that implemented these parts they know hat they have done,

+++ and even some pluses more from me for that.

1st: Thats the essence. but not fixing long outstanding bugs/other stuff is not Procrastinating, its Asset Management.

As a Publisher i would follow the golden rule of debugging 'if you don't stir the excrements then it wouldn't start to stink' so i would never give a statement over year-old-bugs that i NEVER plan to fix anyway.

Asset Management too. maybe one of those 'Modders' do it for free and then im out.

[John FX]

12 hours ago, regex said:

I'm a professional developer and prone to burn-out, the last thing I want to do is come home and write or tweak scripts. That's also the reason I stopped modding. And that still doesn't solve the waiting game; the need to pilot every mission makes grind a very real thing in this game

Mechjeb...

 

I`d like to see things like fuel flow transfer rate (as just one example) opened to modders and other variables that I am sure I am unaware of yet would greatly increase the possibilities available to modders. The ability to overhaul career woul dbe a great boon.

Currently there are things that can be done (stock or with mods) and there are things that just cannot be done (stock or with mods)

I`d really like to see an update which increased the things that can be done, even if only through a mod. I think it may be the only feasible solution to your grind concerns.

A texture pass is so low on my list of priorities that you can`t see it from here. I can see the need for localisation for some though.

I`d rather work was done on cockpit internals to bring the game up to the level of RasterPropMonitors and planets to make them look better from space if graphics are being looked at.

If you are sat in a cockpit currently the game looks rather dated.

[regex]

3 hours ago, John FX said:

Mechjeb...

Are you making a joke or literally not comprehending what I'm saying? Hard to tell in this medium sometimes.

[Violent Jeb]

Well, lets speculate. AFAIK none of this has been commented on in official capacity, because it is all PR kryptonite.

•In 2016 development of KSP is essentially stopped. A team is brought in for one purpose; to continue to keep the game profitable, and coast off dwindling sales for at least a few years.

•In relation to these problems, someone at SQUAD decided to roll the dice with FT who burned them uniformly.
The idea is obviously that consoles will continue to bring in more money, from suckers with gift cards much like Steam, so long as the illusion can be maintained that KSP is an educational and groundbreaking game.

•Subsequently, the ported Australian release is not released because Australian consumer protection is very modernized ergo SQUAD would be forced to honor refunds in that region on account of the awful port.
If SQUAD were forced to honor refunds in one region it would open a can of worms where other regions would demand similar treatment. Directive one is to maintain sales, and refunds are the antithesis. If this isn't the reason I will eat my hat.

•Next, squad goes almost silent regarding the release, accepting awards and accolades from Microsoft and other companies for their amazing work. AFAIK, official SQUAD made about 3 posts regarding consoles in 6 months. Keeping that falsified illusion alive about the actual quality of the game.

•Now, the shareholders and their reps have went back to the drawing board, and again have determined that consoles and localization is indeed the way forward. They may never do an art pass or put planets in, but if they can eek out another 10-30% earnings just by changing the text languages and double and triple checking their spelling, why not? SQUAD brings in a new porting company, says literally nothing about FT, and continues business as usual.

As others have astutely pointed out, telling us about your exciting secret crap is not going to get us excited given the awful track record. I don't care about a KSP T-Shirt or a hoodie.

As others have also pointed out, the game is essentially complete minus glaring balance issues, numerous bugs, and inconsistent assets. Either you're willing and capable of fixing this stuff, or you're not. Take some mass off that 3 person landing pod. You want more examples? Put me on the payroll. As others have pointed out, this is not my job this is supposed to be fun. This isn't fun anymore.

I haven't commented or been active here in months [and don't play ksp], in part because it is obvious that this largely radio silent transition is taking us nowhere good, and also in part that it seems half the remaining forum users are insistent on going down with the ship, exactly as SQUAD intends. It is mind numbing to argue against the noise of users who want nothing but to disagree with conversation that is clearly directed to development, and not to them. If the game were perfect, I wouldn't be posting. Just because you disagree doesn't mean you need to nitpick everyone posts for pages and pages so that all SQUAD sees is a mess of subservient noise, which, although it may be what they want, is not what the "passionate community" wants.

I have said it before, this game COULD have reached the prestige of MFS or Orbiter, it could have spawned sequels and done great things, but it will not do that, because I and many others will not sink another time into the development as it is presently postured. For all the justification of the terrible roadmap and communication, it is appalling to look at single-person dev teams who's level of concern and dialogue is head and shoulders above the shovel-ware pushed here once a week.

 

Hope that didn't come across as aggressive -  have a great 2017! You want the honest opinions and this is simply one of them. I and many others are not stupid, and we ought not be treated that way.

[something]

Localization ongoing. Nothing else. Basically the same stuff I have been reading for the past 6 weeks or so. Except for the super secret stuff which isn't even mentioned in this post anymore, so I am assuming it's not going to happen.

Oh wait. They now realized they have a bug on the runway? Interesting. So bugfixing seems to be a department of @SQUAD - yet.

[basic.syntax]

On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 7:52 AM, regex said:

Squad set expectations of "we're not going to tell" and instead relied on hype, so instead of a roadmap we get

Most of your comments are fair, but the "hype train" doesn't start until an update is feature complete and in the hands of Experimental testers.

As for the kind of roadmap I'd like to see as an answer to the grumbles about 'secret stuff we're working on', I would like to refer "new Squad" to HarvesteR's excellent Beyond Beta article. The Tier 0 buildings and sound overhaul mentioned there didn't make it into v1.0, but, this was the best public goal setting I've seen from Squad. Career progression was originally designed with an additional upgrade level in mind, I still want to see it.

Edited January 11, 2017 by basic.syntax

[regex]

17 minutes ago, basic.syntax said:

Most of your comments are fair, but the "hype train" doesn't start until an update is feature complete and in the hands of Experimental testers.

vOv

We still don't get a roadmap, which was the real point of the post.

E: And while I freely admit I conveniently ignored that it was worth the juxtaposition between more "professional" indie development teams and teams like Squad who seem to thrive on hype.

Edited January 12, 2017 by regex

[Whirligig Girl]

On 1/10/2017 at 10:52 AM, regex said:

Squad set expectations of "we're not going to tell" and instead relied on hype, so instead of a roadmap we get an orgiastic "hype train" thread on the forums.

Squad also doesn't seem to realize that giving more information would generate a lot more genuine hype instead of obligatory pre-update eagerness. Tangentially, it's worth noting that a major point of the Hype Train thread is to keep 'hype' out of the other threads. And I'm actually starting to get tired of it.

[Superfluous J]

13 hours ago, John FX said:

Mechjeb...

Mechjeb doesn't eliminate the grind, it just changes who does it.

[passinglurker]

39 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

Mechjeb doesn't eliminate the grind, it just changes who does it.

hyperedit?

[Superfluous J]

8 minutes ago, passinglurker said:

hyperedit?

You joke but I use Hyperedit more these days to fill my orbital tanks after setting up the ISRU infrastructure than anything else. If that "cheat" automation was instead baked into the game all the better.

I can either fly interesting missions or a fuel truck. I choose interesting missions.

[regex]

17 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

I can either fly interesting missions or a fuel truck. I choose interesting missions.

Mining is for suckers.

[Superfluous J]

2 minutes ago, regex said:

Mining is for suckers.

I see what you did there.

[Talavar]

On 1/7/2017 at 8:57 PM, Frybert said:

And comments like this are a GREAT way to ensure devs NEVER want to come out and give you information.

 What information?
    "Blah blah, mundane stuff, blah blah, it's a secret, bedee bedee bedee That's all folks!"  

  Now, to touch on something that goes un-noticed..  The small bits of hostility, and arguing in the comments gives proof that there is something dissatisfying, and generally "off" in the dev-notes as of late. I came back just to see if anything had changed.. It hasn't.. The fact is that since the original team has faded off, we are now starving for all the good stuff we used to see week to week. Chances are, that secret stuff is nothing worthwhile. Maybe I'm wrong... Maybe they'll Bomb-shell us with gas planet 2!  Or maybe, the days of excitement have finally ended.. I haven't played KSP for almost 3 months now. Every so often, I come back to see if anything worthwhile is happening. Unfortunately, it's never there.

All things must end. 
C'est la vie

[Kerbinchaser]

Yay! 

[Death Engineering]

On 1/6/2017 at 7:53 PM, SQUAD said:

many textures to check and a huge spreadsheet of the changes to check them against

Please tell us you are re-skinning the "Mk1-2 Command Pod" and other uggo parts.

[HebaruSan]

5 hours ago, Death Engineering said:

Please tell us you are re-skinning the "Mk1-2 Command Pod" and other uggo parts.

Wasn't that quote in the context of the localization work? Presumably they are replacing textures that have English words on them with versions that have those words translated into the other languages.