DoctorDavinci

[1.4.x] BDArmory Continued v1.2.2.2 [8/8/2018] + Vessel Mover, Camera Tools, BDMk22, Destruction Effects, Burn Together

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@AtleSt The issue is actually the stock parts' standard of weight. They're pretty heavy. So everything else based or alike to it will be heavy. BDArmory I believe uses realistic enough weight (it would be a problem if they actually changed it). I base the weight off of stock too so there will be discrepancies if I changed it. The power of the props are already boosted as well - though that's basically the best way to circumvent the problem of weight.

However, the bigger picture in all of the engines (early ww1 up to modern) has a balancing issue if a certain category is boosted significantly. In reality, the engines in APP is actually more powerful than some of its alternatives already as well. Anyway, should I boost everything equally to avoid the imbalance, the props may end up to be a power creep against jet engines (they are more fuel efficient).

Now, I'm not certain about how much room there is to move around. I'm happy with the current balancing and so far nobody has complained about BDAC+APP except this one or maybe one or two I have forgotten. I just explained the situation but I'm still going to do some tests and snoop around things I can do, though. Don't hold your breath on it, but I'm not ignoring this either.

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12 hours ago, blackheart612 said:

@AtleSt The issue is actually the stock parts' standard of weight. They're pretty heavy. So everything else based or alike to it will be heavy.

yeah, the fokker dr.I weighs roughly 0.4 tons in real life, but i cant get it under 3 tons in ksp since most parts are made of metal in game, and cloth would probably be hard to implement.

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I have been testing with goalkeepers and cruise missile. I see that one missile have been buffed with a larger blast radius, but this combined with the low accuracy of the goalkeeper CIWS has caused the blast from the missile being shot down to knock out the goalkeeper too. Will this be balanced?

Logs here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3k0xjlcwq8t9ap7/output_log.txt?dl=0

One balancing idea is to reduce the blast of missiles when shot down.

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On 7/29/2018 at 3:45 PM, TheKurgan said:

OH in the bullets... Not 100% sure about the bullets... I'm the "Missile" guy :P

I think the same applies, but I am not sure. Hopefully one of the other BDAc members can confirm.

Here is a challenge for you. Build a plane that can dodge an AMRAAM more then 1 out of 20 times... 5% of the time when being piloted by the AI. (using no countermeasures, ie no chaff) ANY mods can be used, so it's unlimited class.

Good luck :)

I can't do it, and I have built some EXTREME planes just for this purpose.

Oh, and it can't be a micro plane, it should be at minimum half the size of an average fighter jet.

Several people who compete in fighterjet showdown have already done this... it's part of the testing for some of us... dodge missiles with no countermeasures on the plane, if you can do that you're probably going to have an interesting plane that might be competitive. 

 

Edited by RogueWraith909

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1 hour ago, RogueWraith909 said:

Several people who compete in fighterjet showdown have already done this... it's part of the testing for some of us... dodge missiles with no countermeasures on the plane, if you can do that you're probably going to have an interesting plane that might be competitive. 

 

How do you make something that turns so quick? My planes rely on countermeasures.

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4 hours ago, Xd the great said:

How do you make something that turns so quick? My planes rely on countermeasures.

You can't... not anymore.

5 hours ago, RogueWraith909 said:

Several people who compete in fighterjet showdown have already done this...

It was possible in the past, but it isn't possible anymore. It's a whole different game now, dodging an AMRAAM now, is next to impossible.

And if you are telling me you can still do it, and with a normal fighter, I call BS :D

The missiles have all been re-tuned, this was finished in version 1.2.1.3 which was released on June 7.

Edited by TheKurgan

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Sorry I'm late to the discussion.  I am not a forum Regular; I'm just here today to support & further some of the points raised by greydragon70 (Jolly Roger Aerospace).  

Before I get into that though, I want to give a thank you to @Papa_Joe for his wall of text on page 113.  As a fan of walls of text and the information they provide, I thank you on that principle alone.  I also want to say that it has been bittersweet to get back into BDA a few weeks ago and discover the heat mechanic is no longer there, making it impossible for me to do testing with the stock "ignore max temperature" cheat active.  For realism sake, however, I do approve of the switch over to kinetic energy causing primary damage instead of thermal energy.  

I wish to add my 2 cents to two issues raised on page 113 by greydragon70.  Not expecting a reply, just putting out my 2 cents.  

        issue #1

On 8/1/2018 at 7:40 PM, greydragon70 said:

Sometimes when the guns are firing, the sound cuts out as you move the camera around.  The missile  launch sounds don't work either.

On 8/2/2018 at 1:02 PM, DoctorDavinci said:

Sounds cutting out, check .... Could be due to a boatload of sounds being run at the same time and Unity having a hissy fit

Is Unity prone to having ongoing/unending hissy fits?  I ask because, once sound effects break in my battles, they tend to remain broken/unreliable throughout the remainder of the engagement, even after the initial, wild, spontaneous first volleys have been spent and firing later becomes more sporadic or farther apart in time.  Once it's broken, it stays broken.  And it almost always breaks very early in the fight.

        issue #2

On 8/1/2018 at 7:40 PM, greydragon70 said:

Last question, does camera view give any advantage in battle? It is often discussed and I was wondering if that is true.

On 8/2/2018 at 10:20 PM, NotAnAimbot said:

I have also noticed an "observer bias" where observed teams of same aircraft consistently lose matches by either not firing weapons or pulling harder on the controls than the other team's equivalents

On 8/2/2018 at 1:02 PM, DoctorDavinci said:

I highly suspect that this is not the case since targeting and AI behavior is not in any way tied to the camera so there is no way for the AI or Weapon Manager to even tell which direction the camera is pointing in

While I do not dispute DoctorDavinci's point, the presence of this phenomenon in general is equally indisputable.  If the vessel my camera is focused on is one of the competitors in a dogfight, it way too frequently influences the outcome of the battle, usually in the form of one or the other team's flight behavior.  Many people have observed this and similar phenomena related to vessel focus.  It has been noticed even by onlookers (YouTube spectators), people who do not have first hand experience with the mod or even the battle they were watching.  I *have* had first-hand experience with this phenomenon yet, even if I had not, for something to be called into question that many times would suffice to convince me it is real and meritorious of investigation.  The problem may not be in BDA but in conflicts between BDA and stock KSP over prioritization with aircraft control, physics, accuracy of vector calculations -- I'm not a programmer so I don't know what else to call into question, but something is clearly going on even if its evidence is difficult to quantifiably/experientially pin down. 

On 8/2/2018 at 8:42 PM, XOC2008 said:

re: camera bias. I have noticed on some occasions that an aircraft will refuse to fire until you switch to and away from it. Not sure if that's camera bias or something hanging in the code but it will continue to pick a weapon and chase and never fire until you switch vessels. This has happened for some time. 

While this is not strictly within the confines of issue #2, it does relate, and I second that I have also observed this on many an occasion.  This seems to me more of an explicit bug rather than the nebulous phenomenon aforementioned.

 

Thank you for reading,

--Inter

Edited by Inter

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@Inter -thanx for your 2 cents (almost got a dime now :wink:)

You raise some good points and as you surmised extensive testing will be required to get to the bottom of the issues raised

In regards to the sounds, I've read in the unity forums that unity can have a hissy fit if trying to play too many sounds at once on a single channel but how this relates to KSP is still unknown ... we'll have to take a look at that

Anyways, thanx again for the input :)

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8 hours ago, TheKurgan said:

 

You can't... not anymore.

It was possible in the past, but it isn't possible anymore. It's a whole different game now, dodging an AMRAAM now, is next to impossible.

And if you are telling me you can still do it, and with a normal fighter, I call BS :D

The missiles have all been re-tuned, this was finished in version 1.2.1.3 which was released on June 7.

Ahh that explains why I can do it then... I'm running 1.2.1.05... getting the new version asap.  Lets see how it works then :)  Cheers for that!

12 hours ago, Xd the great said:

How do you make something that turns so quick? My planes rely on countermeasures.

Mostly it CoM/CoL balancing, we try and get them pretty close together but not too close as to make it impossible to control.  Generally I set my CoL half into the rear of the CoM marker for most planes.  Give me a nice natural instability. 

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7 minutes ago, Box of Stardust said:

Er, can I get an explanation for these two hitpoint bars?

8rzd0D8.png

Did you happen to add a mm patch or edit the part config to add the hptracker module?

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Just now, DoctorDavinci said:

Did you happen to add a mm patch or edit the part config to add the hptracker module?

Nope.

Anything I should look into redownloading/resetting?

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1 hour ago, Box of Stardust said:

Nope.

Anything I should look into redownloading/resetting?

Definitely. And make sure you delete the old one before redownloading.

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@DoctorDavinci is it possible that something is messed up in the latest patch? A reinstall hasn't changed anything.

Though, upon testing with my little test rig, I've found... some inconsistencies. These are the values in the editor:

IvYHncb.png

The Wing Connector Type C is given two different hitpoint values on different instances of it, and the tail fin apparently has 4000 hitpoints. However, when the rig is actually launched:

LVBcFGf.png

j1wE9Mm.png

The hitpoint values between the WC Type Cs normalize, and the control surfaces have a more normal 1000 hitpoints, and react accordingly. Still, the second hitpoint bar doesn't seem to make sense to me; I'm not sure what that is, and it doesn't seem to have any effect on the part (though it does retain an identical value between the editor and in-game).

Also, the values for the Delta Deluxe here are at odds with the values in my other screenshot, so I'm just really confused (though, that was before I reinstalled, so maybe it makes a difference).

 

Edited by Box of Stardust

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This mod doesn't come with Bahamuto's adjustable landing gear does it?

 

EDIT: Just found the link to KSPWheel, so if a mod could remove this that would fantastico. Apologies!

Edited by Bartybum

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5 hours ago, Box of Stardust said:

@DoctorDavinci is it possible that something is messed up in the latest patch? A reinstall hasn't changed anything.

Though, upon testing with my little test rig, I've found... some inconsistencies. These are the values in the editor:

IvYHncb.png

The Wing Connector Type C is given two different hitpoint values on different instances of it, and the tail fin apparently has 4000 hitpoints. However, when the rig is actually launched:

LVBcFGf.png

j1wE9Mm.png

The hitpoint values between the WC Type Cs normalize, and the control surfaces have a more normal 1000 hitpoints, and react accordingly. Still, the second hitpoint bar doesn't seem to make sense to me; I'm not sure what that is, and it doesn't seem to have any effect on the part (though it does retain an identical value between the editor and in-game).

Also, the values for the Delta Deluxe here are at odds with the values in my other screenshot, so I'm just really confused (though, that was before I reinstalled, so maybe it makes a difference).

 

Pretty sure the release on july 10 was fine

Check for outdated mods.

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8 hours ago, Box of Stardust said:

These are the values in the editor:

Hi ,  the  wandering values  are a known issue that's being worked on, the coding team believe they have found a value  that can be used  for the  automatic hit point calculation that does no change between editor and flight scene .
RE the second hit point slider, i suspect there is some patch weirdness going on, a hit point module is automatically attached by BDA  and those values, for stock parts, are then set using the stock part fix MM patch, your images indicate some breakdown in patch application     and  we need to see the KSP,log for  a recent run .  For best results a stock clean install with BDA and it's dependencies will be used to produce the log.

@Xd the great Please refer  to the BDA issues on github before giving advice regarding problems and bugs, misinformation causes confusion , cheers

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Hello everyone!

It is that time again.  Your feedback and our team have been busy.  Here is a new release.  Change log:

v1.2.2.2
* Recompiled for KSP 1.4.5

* FIXES
    *Error spam in Log when a radar is destroyed.  An orphaned index was not properly being updated. 
     Reported in BDAc Forum post: https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/155014-14x-bdarmory-continued-v1221-7102018-vessel-mover-camera-tools-bdmk22-destruction-effects-burn-together/&do=findComment&comment=3425233
     Thanks to greydragon70 for his thoughtful evaluation of BDac and issue reporting.
    * Corrected an error where high speed missiles would sometimes not detonate in the correct location.

* ENHANCEMENTS:
  * Increased maximum allowable missles per target to 18, up from 6.
  * Added EMP Module.  Now Electromagnetic pulses exist in game that can disable electronics within the blast range.
  * Added 2 new EMP equipped missiles  HellFire EMP, and AIM-120 EMP.  Small pulse radius but demonstrates the feature.
  * Added 3 different sized EMP pulse FX, allows for additional sized pulse weapons.
  * Added Reloadable Missile Rail (ModuleMissileRearm.  Now missile launchers can be reloadable!  
    This module can be added to missile launcher designs to allow reloading. (code used with permission courtesy of @flywyx).  
    Requires unity based modifications,  normal rails will not function as reloadable unless additional transforms are added.
  * Added new standard resource High Explosive.  Provides better matching of tntMass for balance.
  * Added an Ammo switcher feature (no more Firespitter required)
  * Added new Universal Ammo Box part that uses the new Ammo switcher feature.  Old part remains for backawards compatability.  
    Use the new part going forward.  To remove the need for FireSpitter, replace existing Ammo Box parts with the new part on existing craft.
  * Improved sub categories for BDA parts.  This helps with the clutter in the Editor under the BDA category.
  * Removed BDACategoryModule as a result of the BDA categories refactor.  
    Existing craft may see a module not found warnings in the log.  This will have no ill effects and can be safely ignored.
  * Improved smoke effects for smoke canister launchers
  * Added new Jet engine based on the J-404.  Licensed from KTech. (Thanks @TheKurgan, @SpannerMonkey(SMCE) & @XOC2008!)
  * Added new BDAc Test Drone MKIII craft, utilizing the new engine.
  * Added engagement rules to all missiles

NOTE:  There has been a long standing issue with guns accuracy and the AI.  Seem when the AI fIres, it can't hit the broad side of a barn (OK, it can if the barn jumps in front of it, but not intentionally.)  As was reported and well characterized by @greydragon70 (Thanks) and many others (thanks as well!).  we are taking a deep look at this issue.  Based on our rather extensive testing, this problem was introduced some time around version 1.0 or 1.1.  We are working on narrowing it down, but that is going back quite a ways.

I just wanted everyone to know we are taking a hard look at this as we realize it is an unacceptable condition. 

More news will follow, but we wanted to get this latest change out so we could focus on this issue.

Edited by Papa_Joe

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Hi all, some little notes on some of the newer features,

15 hours ago, Papa_Joe said:

* Increased maximum allowable missles per target to 18, up from 6.

If you've ever used the rotary rack in a bomber you'll appreciate this.
 

15 hours ago, Papa_Joe said:

* Added EMP Module.  Now Electromagnetic pulses exist in game that can disable electronics within the blast range.
  * Added 2 new EMP equipped missiles  HellFire EMP, and AIM-120 EMP.  Small pulse radius but demonstrates the feature.
  * Added 3 different sized EMP pulse FX, allows for additional sized pulse weapons.

The EMP module must be added to a missile in order that it function as such . The module  is simple and the only configurable element is proximity, which translates for you guys as effective range.  There is no drop off, it is a hard edged effect,  in the example below a vehicle at 90 meters from explosion will be disabled , a vehicle at 110 mtrs will not.  It works by removing the ability to store and generate electric charge and affects all systems.  Surface craft will stop moving, and aircraft will fall  out of the sky. All BDA equip is also disabled , so it is effective on crewed or un crewed craft     Most important.  There is no reset  once affected by a pulse the craft is dead.

MODULE
	{
		name = BDExplosivePart
		tntMass = 0.01
		explModelPath = BDArmory/Models/EMPexplosion/EMPexplosionS
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleEMP
		proximity = 100
	}

Related is another small change to the location of explosion sounds and visuals for missiles and bomb cfg's(ONLY).  Previously  the explModelPath = and  sound path were located in the MissileLauncher module itself.  Newly created parts should now use the  method above and locate those cfg elements in the ExplosivePart module. 
Note in this example taken from the BDA AMRAAM EMP Missile that the TNT mass is tiny,  this is obviously a creator preference  setting, we decided that the equip needed for an EMP would preclude space for fitting explosive,  there;s no restriction to set up, you can if wished , create a huge bomb with a large tnt mass plus and emp module and get both levels of destruction ,  imo though one death is enough.
There are 3 supplied EMP FX  in small medium and large , and these can be found in the BDA models EMP explosion folder . To use simply point the path in the explosive part module to point at the relevant effect .   The small effect is very small and the large effect would be suitable for something that shut down the whole KSC

 

15 hours ago, Papa_Joe said:

* Added Reloadable Missile Rail (ModuleMissileRearm.  Now missile launchers can be reloadable!  
    This module can be added to missile launcher designs to allow reloading. (code used with permission courtesy of @flywyx).  
    Requires unity based modifications,  normal rails will not function as reloadable unless additional transforms are added.

Reloadable  Missile Rails and other single fire launchers.  Simple module with no in game or configurable settings , It looks like this

MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleMissileRearm //ReloadableRail
	}

As mentioned in post and quote,  adding this to any unprepared rail or launcher will not work. It requires a specific transform (unity game object) to be placed and rotated correctly.  Reload only works for surface attachable missiles, however the first missile loaded can be stack or surface attach, as long as the missile has a correctly set up surface attachment and the launcher has suitably setup colliders.
A basic unity set up shown for a reloadable VLS tube. The name of the transform is not negotiable, it is either as below or will not work, this name is hard coded. (described and baked into the BDA source code)
MO1cK2d.png
If you can set up normal rails and launchers this should be a breeze. I expect, and have found set up and use to be easy and trouble free for anyone familiar with the part modding process.
(MODDERS NOTE, Id suggest that in the case as above of a tube launcher,  that the non contact surfaces,  those face that the missile is not going to attach to, are marked no attach , with the unity tag)
USAGE
The reloadable rail cannot be reloaded by AI, and therefore is of no use or threat in AI comps, the AI will treat it as single fire only.   In manual fire there is a maximum number of times the launcher can be reloaded.  It is not an infinite supply of missiles .   Multiple reloadables can be installed on a single vessel.  BUT only one reloadable module per individual launcher is supported.  Launchers can be reloaded either via right click menu or action group.

IMPORTANT
As with all launchers it is vital for the player  to ensure that the missile body or fins do not clip into any part of the launcher. Any interference or clipping can prevent launch and cause problems in use.

It's a very versatile module that can be used to create reloadable turrets , and even combination turrets.  Note. Reloading requires that the turret be locked before reloading . if the turret moves at all during the loading process it will result in misplaced missile, not correctly aligned and probably sitting at a weird angle. Goes without saying that firing a misplaced badly loaded missile can result in craft destruction.

video from early dev

Spoiler

 

Any other questions, you know where to find us.
 

Edited by SpannerMonkey(smce)

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13 hours ago, Papa_Joe said:

Hello everyone!

It is that time again.  Your feedback and our team have been busy.  Here is a new release.  Change log:

v1.2.2.2
* Recompiled for KSP 1.4.5

* FIXES
    *Error spam in Log when a radar is destroyed.  An orphaned index was not properly being updated. 
     Reported in BDAc Forum post: https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/155014-14x-bdarmory-continued-v1221-7102018-vessel-mover-camera-tools-bdmk22-destruction-effects-burn-together/&do=findComment&comment=3425233
     Thanks to greydragon70 for his thoughtful evaluation of BDac and issue reporting.
    * Corrected an error where high speed missiles would sometimes not detonate in the correct location.

* ENHANCEMENTS:
  * Increased maximum allowable missles per target to 18, up from 6.
  * Added EMP Module.  Now Electromagnetic pulses exist in game that can disable electronics within the blast range.
  * Added 2 new EMP equipped missiles  HellFire EMP, and AIM-120 EMP.  Small pulse radius but demonstrates the feature.
  * Added 3 different sized EMP pulse FX, allows for additional sized pulse weapons.
  * Added Reloadable Missile Rail (ModuleMissileRearm.  Now missile launchers can be reloadable!  
    This module can be added to missile launcher designs to allow reloading. (code used with permission courtesy of @flywyx).  
    Requires unity based modifications,  normal rails will not function as reloadable unless additional transforms are added.
  * Added new standard resource High Explosive.  Provides better matching of tntMass for balance.
  * Added an Ammo switcher feature (no more Firespitter required)
  * Added new Universal Ammo Box part that uses the new Ammo switcher feature.  Old part remains for backawards compatability.  
    Use the new part going forward.  To remove the need for FireSpitter, replace existing Ammo Box parts with the new part on existing craft.
  * Improved sub categories for BDA parts.  This helps with the clutter in the Editor under the BDA category.
  * Removed BDACategoryModule as a result of the BDA categories refactor.  
    Existing craft may see a module not found warnings in the log.  This will have no ill effects and can be safely ignored.
  * Improved smoke effects for smoke canister launchers
  * Added new Jet engine based on the J-404.  Licensed from KTech. (Thanks @TheKurgan, @SpannerMonkey(SMCE) & @XOC2008!)
  * Added new BDAc Test Drone MKIII craft, utilizing the new engine.
  * Added engagement rules to all missiles

NOTE:  There has been a long standing issue with guns accuracy and the AI.  Seem when the AI fIres, it can't hit the broad side of a barn (OK, it can if the barn jumps in front of it, but not intentionally.)  As was reported and well characterized by @greydragon70 (Thanks) and many others (thanks as well!).  we are taking a deep look at this issue.  Based on our rather extensive testing, this problem was introduced some time around version 1.0 or 1.1.  We are working on narrowing it down, but that is going back quite a ways.

I just wanted everyone to know we are taking a hard look at this as we realize it is an unacceptable condition. 

More news will follow, but we wanted to get this latest change out so we could focus on this issue.

I'm so glad I could help. I'll download the update and get back to you.

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Hello, what is AI unclamping//clamping in the AI part?

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