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Have we landed on the moon?


munlander1
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Home many of you believe we have landed on the moon?  

164 members have voted

  1. 1. With people, we have landed on the moon.

    • You agree with this.
      157
    • You disagree with this.
      5
    • You are in between on the matter.
      2


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I would have to say Neil deGrasse Tyson's comments on the matter summarize it best: The moon landings were so incredible that over 40 years later that some people are so amazed that they can't grasp that it actually happened. (I summarized but that's basically what he said.)

Edited by Racescort666
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10 hours ago, SinBad said:

I read in another thread that some of the flat earth crowd believe ksp is "a brainwashing tool made by the evil overlords nasa to make people believe in space and the spherical earth lie"

Is the op maybe collecting data to support that belief?

What do you mean? I started this thread to see how many ksp players believe in the moon landings or not. If that answers your question.

30 minutes ago, Racescort666 said:

I would have to say Neil deGrasse Tyson's comments on the matter summarize it best: The moon landings were so incredible that over 40 years later that some people are so amazed that they can't grasp that it actually happened. (I summarized but that's basically what he said.)

Sounds like something he would do. He's great!

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3 hours ago, Elthy said:

If you want to spend a lot of time (and she is willing to participate) you could derivate all the necessary physics. Stuff like the rocket equation isnt to complicated if you have basic knowledge of math, supporting it all with experiments will be more complicated, especialy when you include error calculation...

I'm not good at math at all, not to say physics. But when the time comes, i'll see if i can compile the proof and show it to her. :)

 

Edited by PayadorPerseguido
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14 hours ago, SinBad said:

I

20 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Unlikely a mathematical nerdish proof of her ignorance would make her happy.
More probably it would just pain her and cause a reaction like: "Ok, you are right, a dull nerd, you can eat this". It worth this price?

I think the best way to do it is "I feel this way" "this is why I feel this way" "why do you feel the way you do"

In my opinion, keeping it civilized is the most important. No matter what.

Edited by munlander1
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14 hours ago, SinBad said:

I

This is gonna be the last word on the subject, because we have gone off topic. If they sat down and expressed there opinions, then dropping  it forever; I think that would be a lot better than the bantering back and forth.

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1 hour ago, munlander1 said:

This is gonna be the last word on the subject, because we have gone off topic. If they sat down and expressed there opinions, then dropping  it forever; I think that would be a lot better than the bantering back and forth.

True dat

By the way, i voted "You agree with this"

 

 

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who 'still' care about the mün time to land middle of a "kraken" black hole ^^ gonna be fun they said ^^

wow it sound like a long trip, plane it wisely ^^ insert celerity here + @random star far far away decay woohohohoh doh a do nuts

Edited by WinkAllKerb''
because your lifespan is short but the earth is old
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On 1/29/2017 at 6:41 PM, munlander1 said:

I think the best course of action would to avoid the topic completely. It sounds like you guys are both pretty set on your opinions on the matter. 

since when did objective facts get reduced to a mere "opinion" with equal weight to another opinion?

Never mind... we're past that, now that mere "opinions" have been elevated to the level of "alternative facts"...

 

Please... I thought this was a place to discuss science, not propagate newspeak.

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"Have we landed on the moon?" - no we haven't. Only Americans landed on Moon. This wasn't international mission it was single-nation mission, so saying "we" as humanity is wrong.
This modern fairytale of "united humanity" is fail in our space exploration (and in our way of thinking), because we as "united humanity" couldn't do more than single nation could do. There should be historical lesson for all space programs... but it is omitted by most of people talking about space missions.

...also I would like to see evidence of their landing confirmed by other countries after they send there manned mission, because I have doubts it went just like the official version says.
 

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15 minutes ago, Darnok said:

...also I would like to see evidence of their landing confirmed by other countries after they send there manned mission, because I have doubts it went just like the official version says.

There is plenty of evidence. Did you even look ?

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15 hours ago, Racescort666 said:

I would have to say Neil deGrasse Tyson's comments on the matter summarize it best: The moon landings were so incredible that over 40 years later that some people are so amazed that they can't grasp that it actually happened. (I summarized but that's basically what he said.)

Going to see him tonight. I hope this subject comes up in his talk!   :D

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i have a stupid theory:

they did it but made a false video because cold war and nananananere you russia you know we made it, but we won't share with you the data nananananere

stupid well but in the cold war context (and a few others task repart worldwide afterward it's been done, related thing*) it's not

++ whocare now, the moon well meteorite hole after meteorite hole and dust, there nothing to see interesting there aside if you dig deep in // ocean moon cycle and women cycle // ocean // ...

grab a telescope and you ll get fixed fast about the moon ...

++&++ story telling applied to politics the polemic used to be handy the past years here or there or elsewhere

Edited by WinkAllKerb''
*this sound crusty but shhh shhh ruleZzzzZzzzzZzzz
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2 hours ago, Darnok said:

"Have we landed on the moon?" - no we haven't. Only Americans landed on Moon. This wasn't international mission it was single-nation mission, so saying "we" as humanity is wrong.
This modern fairytale of "united humanity" is fail in our space exploration (and in our way of thinking), because we as "united humanity" couldn't do more than single nation could do. There should be historical lesson for all space programs... but it is omitted by most of people talking about space missions.

...also I would like to see evidence of their landing confirmed by other countries after they send there manned mission, because I have doubts it went just like the official version says.
 

#1) I am american, do I get to say "we"

#2) Your logic is incorrect. That's like arguing that we can't say that "Mammals landed on the Moon" because not every mammal went to the moon. Its like saying Human's didn't land on the moon because not all humans went. Humans did land on the moon. We are Humans. Soviet humans did not, Chinese Humans have not (time may change this), but without any qualifiers, humans have landed on the moon.

#3) The last Chinese mission to the moon did return evidence of our landing, their orbiter photographed the landing sites, with the tracks and descent stages still there.

As far as the technical details, I'm sure it went as described. The telemetry data was there for any interested nation to observe (the soviets sure were tracking it). Grounf stations around the world helped track the spacecraft and communicate (if the Aussies helped with communication and telemetry, do they get to say "we" ?)

The hardware is all known. Heck, soviets were even allowed inside an Apollo spacecraft while it was operating. There's still a Saturn V on display, I've seen it. International observers saw the launches.

The political backstory? the details of the private conversations that went into getting funding for this, other political motivations for JFKs "we choose to do this... " speech?

Sure we probably don't have the entire backstory there. I'm sure some senators and congressmen used this multi-billion dollar project to line their pockets or the pockets of their campaign contributors.

That is no reason to support conspiracy theories about the mission itself.

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Furthermore, lets not act like America alone achieved this.

As with all things in science and technology, its a process of building on previous knowledge.

Scientists come from around the world, work around the world, share ideas around the world. We build on the knowledge and achievements of others. The US space program was built upon the German rocket program.

When you look at the entire body of work that was needed for the moon landings, the american contribution was only a small part.

Lets not forget Isaac Newton and calculus -> that was surely needed. Other mathematicians like Carl Friedrick Gauss? More basic math like Algebra from the ancient middle East?

Oh, what of Kepler's laws of motion? The rocket equation - that's not an american invention!

Think of all the achievements in chemistry that were needed for this - most of that was done before America even dreamed of a moon rocket.

Scientific and technological achievements are a collective effort.

Lets not forget that america draws resources from around the world. A miner in another country selling ore the the US indirectly helped. Even a farmer that made food that fed someone working on the project helped - or even foodthat fed someone that helped someone else that helped someone else ... that worked on the project, would have helped the project.

Only truly isolated nations that are closed to the outside world can claim their achievements are theirs and theirs alone.

 

A remember seeing a wartime (WWII) propaganda video from some ace fighter pilot in the Pacific - his message was that he wasn't winning the war alone. He thanked the people servicing his airplane, his ship, the engineers, the factory workers, the miners, the recyclers, the farmers feeding all these people. Victory was a collective effort. He couldn't succeed without all those people behind him.

The same goes for those few men that walked on the moon, and the same goes for the country that sent people to the moon.

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2 hours ago, Darnok said:

"Have we landed on the moon?" - no we haven't. Only Americans landed on Moon. This wasn't international mission it was single-nation mission, so saying "we" as humanity is wrong.
This modern fairytale of "united humanity" is fail in our space exploration (and in our way of thinking), because we as "united humanity" couldn't do more than single nation could do.

Without Russians Americans wouldn't have enough inspiration. So, in some sense this is a collective achievement.

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2 hours ago, WinkAllKerb'' said:

i have a stupid theory:

they did it but made a false video because cold war and nananananere you russia you know we made it, but we won't share with you the data nananananere

stupid well but in the cold war context (and a few others task repart worldwide afterward it's been done, related thing*) it's not

++ whocare now, the moon well meteorite hole after meteorite hole and dust, there nothing to see interesting there aside if you dig deep in // ocean moon cycle and women cycle // ocean // ...

grab a telescope and you ll get fixed fast about the moon ...

++&++ story telling applied to politics the polemic used to be handy the past years here or there or elsewhere

Making it as an bluff is plausible, Soviet did lot of bluffing, The STI or star wars missile defense was also a lot of bluff. 
However its an major difference, Soviet bluffed on capability and number of weapon systems the weapons existed and its hard to get good capability estimates and numbers. 
SDI bluffed with capabilities too, most obvious in the SSTO projects who was pretty hopeless. Still it was real development projects some who led to real systems. 
In short everybody knew it was some lying but not how much.

To fake the Moon landing is different, here you have an giant project involving thousands of people and just an hint that it was an bluff would have Soivet look closer and yes they had obviously spies in NASA. 
That is the issue any simple proof it had been faked would draw a lot of focus making it far simpler to find proof it was fake. 
You also had an rocket who had enough payload capacity to do an Moon landing, who you launched many times. With hardware who also should be able to do the work. 
Made worse in that the US gifted Soviet samples who could be compared with their later sample returns. 

Faking it would probably be easiest running the Apollo mission unmanned with an way to get samples into the accent module then to the command module. Yes you could use an smaller unmanned sample return lander like Soviet did but then you would have to develop this and no traces of this exist.

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I believe that we (as in people themselves, not talking about a specific country or place, just as a general we) have landed on the moon. I also believe that there is such a thing as physics, or as atoms, or that there is a rock out there somewhere called Pluto, without having ever seen or experienced any of the above. It is not a matter of "Have we?" it is a matter of "do we believe we have?"

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