kerbiloid Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Veeltch said: half people Hobbits?... 27 minutes ago, munlander1 said: They high up in the ksp community. I will not give away their usernames. One of them is @Veeltch, another one - you, it's obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munlander1 Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) 12 hours ago, kerbiloid said: One of them is @Veeltch, another one - you, it's obvious. Not me. Edited February 3, 2017 by munlander1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 My remark was frothy, just disregard it. Also, too much about fantasy creatures here. Maybe better to return to the lunar conspiracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathair Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 1 hour ago, p1t1o said: it takes a particularly insular type of person that doesn't assume that "we" in this context is referring to our species... I believe that was exactly Darnok's complaint, that the "we" did refer to humanity and that it should not, that all credit should go to "Americans". (A comment like " Your way of thinking is flawed by united humanity propaganda." speaks volumes.) Personally I wonder why, to that way of thinking, "Americans" should get the credit. Most Americans just sat home and watched it all on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frybert Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, Nathair said: Personally I wonder why, to that way of thinking, "Americans" should get the credit. Most Americans just sat home and watched it all on TV. Well, they did PAY for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Frybert said: Well, they did PAY for it. Because they had gotten enough money from the world economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frybert Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, kerbiloid said: Because they had gotten enough money from the world economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Also we should check Icelandic sagas. It wouldn't be a surprise if somebody had visited the Moon far ago, and there are rune stones about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wjolcz Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 7 hours ago, munlander1 said: What's wrong? You did not vote for the 3rd option. Oh the part about the two not-trolls? They high up in the ksp community. I will not give away their usernames. I would like to reveal more about it and why I don't think they are trolls, but I will not. OMG 7 hours ago, kerbiloid said: One of them is @Veeltch, another one - you, it's obvious. Can confirm. We are both in this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frybert Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Folks, please don't publish the votes of anonymous polls. If people want their own votes known they can post in thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StupidAndy Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 its funny how this thread went from "have we" to "who has" landed on the moon wow...118 people voted for it...I love you guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razark Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 9 minutes ago, StupidAndy said: wow...118 people voted for it... The wow is that six people didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrandedonEarth Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 I've been trying to avoid this thread, as I thought this should have been settled long ago. I also didn't like the wording of the question. I don't know if it was a typo, or a English-as-a-second-language issue, but I didn't want to touch it. But since I'm bored, I figured I'd weigh in. I took the question literally, so I answered no, I do not agree that people have landed in the Moon. But I firmly believe that humanity has landed on the Moon. Every bit of so-called evidence the conspiracy people presented has been thoroughly debunked, and some of it I knew to be wrong anyways before it was explained. If it was faked, it would have involved far too many people to keep it secret for this long, and the Soviets would have also known from their own data and exposed it. 8 minutes ago, razark said: The wow is that six people didn't. Well, my no vote is garbage as I took the question literally. I was typing my explanation as you replied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StupidAndy Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 9 minutes ago, razark said: The wow is that six people didn't. probably a "we" thing or like @StrandedonEarth was saying, that probably takes off half of them, so maybe three people are saying "her der der her! we didn't land on the moon!" because of they have nothing better to do (GO POLLUTE OTHER GAMES! LIKE ROBLOX! ITS ACCEPTED THERE) so maybe one person says that we didn't land on the moon, probably another joker, so maybe nobody! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munlander1 Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 35 minutes ago, StrandedonEarth said: have landed in the Moon Passed over my head completely. Edited the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrandedonEarth Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, munlander1 said: Passed over my head completely. Edited the question. I'm surprised no one mentioned it before. Now I can't change my vote. Oh well, no big deal, just static in the statistic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munlander1 Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 1 minute ago, StrandedonEarth said: I'm surprised no one mentioned it before. Now I can't change my vote. Oh well, no big deal, just static in the statistic Some one mentioned it but since they did not really say it like you did, I thought they were joking around. Their post clicked when I read your. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 2 hours ago, StrandedonEarth said: I'm surprised no one mentioned it before Spoiler I kept the honour of humanity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munlander1 Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 @kerbiloid Ok 2 people. You could have said what @StrandedonEarth said though. Would have been much simpler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeroGav Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) When people say, "I don't think we ever went there", I have a strong urge to avoid that person and immediately become suspicious of their morals. I guess it depends on their motives for making the statement. Plainly, they have no interest in spaceflight, and perhaps they are just wanting to show that they are a rebellious free-thinker, that won't be lead (though they can't be bothered with checking facts) , and at best , they might simply think space exploration is a waste of money and are using this to denigrate the space program. However, I suspect people like this are prone to believing conspiracy theories in general. If they think the moon landings are fake, they probably also think 9/11 was a controlled demolition, that TWA flight 800 was shot down, that global warming does not exist, and that the holocaust never happened. To believe that the moon landings were fake, you have to believe that your school teachers lied to you, and that scientists and academics are liars, their statements are without value (Ignorance is strength!). You have to believe that democracy is an illusion, that governments being ousted by their bitter rivals in election defeats does not prevent them spilling the beans on each other's lies, because actually they're not rivals at all an it's just a cosy stitch up. The cold war was also an illusion - the enemy/rival power bloc maintained the lie. All governments around the world are secretly working together, we are actually controlled by a ruling elite of Lizards (see David Icke). Finally, you also have to believe that our (mostly) free/independent media are also nothing of the sort, and that the arrangement is no different to that of Joseph Goebells in ww2 Germany. Perhaps the most depressing thing is what this says about your beliefs in human nature. You clearly don't believe that most people are mostly honest, and that nearly all of us have good intentions. If you think everyone is lying and cheating all the time, i might as well do the same right? It's a good justification for anti social behaviour on your own part, if nothing else. Why not indulge in tax avoidance/fraud if you think the government is just syphoning everything off to the military/industrial complex anyway? Why not support a radical right/left party that wants to undermine democracy, when you don't believe it exists anyway? Why not decat your car if you think environmentalism is a conspiracy? Where does it all end? Edited February 3, 2017 by AeroGav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munlander1 Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 Who do you think are worse? Those who come up with ridiculous stuff like this: Or the ones who come up with more "educated" conspiracies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) 20 minutes ago, AeroGav said: If they think the moon landings are fake, that 9/11 was a controlled demolition, that TWA flight 800 was shot down, that global warming does not exist, and that the holocaust never happened. Mixing unrelated assertions to reject them at once - is definitely a manipulation technics, aiming to make an opponent feel guilty according to the most inappropriate of them. 20 minutes ago, AeroGav said: you have to believe that your school teachers lied to you Sometimes 20 minutes ago, AeroGav said: and that scientists and academics are liars One person can be a brilliant expert in one, and just a private person in another. Not everybody who tells a lie is a liar, but hominis errare est. 20 minutes ago, AeroGav said: most people are mostly honest, and that nearly all of us have good intentions. But their vision of "goodness" and "honestry" can vary in wide range, and the less important is a theme for a person, the less he/she cares about the Truth. Edited February 3, 2017 by kerbiloid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elthy Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, kerbiloid said: Mixing unrelated assertions to reject them at once - is definitely a manipulation technics, aiming to make an opponent feel guilty according to the most inappropriate of them. I think AeroGav is right, conspiracys rarely come alone. If you belive in one it cascades since you have to call an ever increasing circle of people liars. They have to create an entire alternate history, since most of the conspiracys are historicaly linked they fall like dominoes. Edit: I realy like AeroGavs post as it nicely explains why i couldnt be together with a person which belives in such conspiracys. Edited February 3, 2017 by Elthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeroGav Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 1 hour ago, kerbiloid said: Mixing unrelated assertions to reject them at once - is definitely a manipulation technics, aiming to make an opponent feel guilty according to the most inappropriate of them. If you say you disagree with the Apollo program, think it was a waste of money, or even that space exploration in general is a waste of money, that's a legitimate position. Not one i personally agree with, but people can hold different views. Similarly with global warming, you can say "there is no point me/our nation cutting back on fossil fuel use, because if we don't use FF, someone else will and in the end mankind will burn every last drop of oil". I don't agree with that attitude and find it a bit depressing, but it's a legitimate position to take. To just state "It's all a hoax", in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary risks putting you in the same camp as people who are fond of all conspiracy theories, and that comes with unpleasant baggage. And of course, a person can express doubts that we ever went to the moon, when what they really mean is they don't understand how something like that was possible with 60s technology, and appear to have made so little progress since. That's an entirely different thing, and I'm sure anyone on these boards would be more than happy to explain why reality has not kept pace with Sci Fi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Most of people just don't care about most of problems outside of their personal sight, unless somebody begins to propagate something they didn't care themselves. So, an opinion of the most people on almost any theme not differs very much from a random noise. For most of people there's just no difference between the space flights or a last year football match. Not that they "don't understand the difference", but this difference objectively plays no role in their life. So, they just bet nothing on their opinion themselves. The moon-schmoon is just a one more blah-blah for them. They even aren't believing/disbelieving, but just not giving a fake about this. This is normal, this is a slop and ballast. An intellectual laziness is a natural protection from crazy ideas. If a person isn't interested in something, better let him keep away from the theme than to feed demagogic leaders. Even if a person is interested and has a strong opinion about something, very few of them are really significant to deal with about this theme. So, his opinion could play any role if crowds of his like-minded fellows got possessed with that idea. And exactly because of this, almost always a representative democracy has pushed out the primitive direct democracy, leaving for her only simplest and uncertain questions. There are many strange and freaky ideas in the world, and almost any person has at least several of them in mind, just treats them as normal. Also they indeed can be normal for 50% of people, while abnormal for 50% others. So, living with real people you will anyway deal with those who has ideas disgusting for you, and thus you most probably would not pay too much attention for someone's else brain cockroaches. Otherwise there's a risk to stay a shining standalone mountain peak of perfection. Not much people have yet been killed for the lunar expeditions theme, so it's unlikely a real reason to reject somebody from your life just for this. Another one can be agreed that there were lunar expeditions, but be sure that they found UFO when being there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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