garwel

[1.7.3] Kerbal Health 1.3.7 (2019-07-16)

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This looks like something I definitely need. I'm currently using TAC-LS instead of USI, but I've got all the other USI stuff. I'll let you know if I see any issues pop up though. Great to see more and more of these "human resources" type mods where the game's not just about managing fuel.

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So I gave this a whirl. It's awesome but I have a few suggestions:

  • Would you be able to add support for blizzy toolbar? My stock toolbar is out of control... 
  • An icon available in the map screen/tracking station would be very useful, so I can check what needs attention while switching between ships.
  • A suggestion for integration with TAC-LS, if desired, is to have a modifier change health when a life support resource is depleted. While it's almost guaranteed that oxygen deprivation will have TAC-LS kill a Kerbal before this mod will, something like starvation might not, or a compounding of various different effects. I actually rather like the idea that Kerbals that are in dire straits to begin with could succumb to overall systemic health problems before technically dying from dehydration/starvation.
  • You mentioned potential compatibility with Kerbalism in the future. Any plans to have any sort of radiation effects on health as a stand-alone for this mod? Even a very simple implementation could be a nice way to bridge the gap between Kerbalism (which isn't compatible with hardly anything) and the other LS mods like TAC. Perhaps just a quick modifier for health rates based on square of the distance to nearest star, and another just flat rate for EVA? To be honest, your mod isn't really even that much simpler to how stochastic effects of radiation are tracked and modeled in real life. Oh and additionally, various Kopernicus planet packs often include planets that supposedly have high radiation, but don't really have salient ways of implementing this. This mod could really give those a huge immersion boost.
  • Any plans for any other exposure risks? High heat/cold, high winds, water modifiers for temperature (and radiation if submerged, even), physical exhaustion from activity, sleep deprivation? Some of them might be sort of beyond the scope, but just curious.
  • Is it intended for there to be virtually no way to regain lost health except returning to Kerbin? I might be missing something in the details, I'm not sure, but it seems like everything otherwise is just mitigating the loss of health. As an aspiring interstellar explorer, this sort of worries me, as .5 lightyears even with amazing technologies will still require a pretty substantial amount of time. The slightest discrepancy, resulting in an average of even -.1 health/day, could be lethal over the long term if I can't get it back in any way. You mentioned I think that you don't have any intention of adding parts, but I'm sure that there are other mods that might have things like clinics already in them that could possibly be compatible with this one. Even very late in the tech tree would be plenty to cover interstellar travel, shouldn't need much less before then.
  • If you would in fact like to add parts, would you want some help with that? I have no experience with Unity's modeling program, but I have done plenty of modeling/texturing with other programs (namely Lightwave and 3dsmax). Would be very easy I think for me to export for Unity compatibility, or just to learn Unity outright. I would be happy to join and collaborate if you're interested.
  • This is just me nitpicking and isn't a big deal at all, but the term "overpopulation" just seems a bit of a misnomer to me. Personally I think "crowding" could be a more appropriate term for all situations, particularly 1-3 man vessels. Overpopulation evokes more of an image of colonies, cities, or even civilizations and doesn't seem to fit with the scale of small manned rockets. Again I want to emphasize though this is purely my aesthetic opinion.

In any event, I'm a fan. Hope to see this become popular and go places.

 

Edit: Oops, that should be square root of distance to nearest star...

Edit 2: That should actually be the inverse square of the distance (r^-2) to nearest star... early morning without coffee yet. Sheesh.

Edited by smokytehbear

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2 hours ago, smokytehbear said:

So I gave this a whirl. It's awesome but I have a few suggestions:

  • Would you be able to add support for blizzy toolbar? My stock toolbar is out of control... 

Yep, it's in the plans. I'm working on a completely new mechanic now, random events, and then (or maybe before if I get stuck) I'm going to add support for Blizzy's Toolbar.

2 hours ago, smokytehbear said:
  • An icon available in the map screen/tracking station would be very useful, so I can check what needs attention while switching between ships.

Will look into it. Should be easy.

2 hours ago, smokytehbear said:
  • A suggestion for integration with TAC-LS, if desired, is to have a modifier change health when a life support resource is depleted. While it's almost guaranteed that oxygen deprivation will have TAC-LS kill a Kerbal before this mod will, something like starvation might not, or a compounding of various different effects. I actually rather like the idea that Kerbals that are in dire straits to begin with could succumb to overall systemic health problems before technically dying from dehydration/starvation.

I've thought about it and maybe will include it. It can make sense, in theory, but I don't want to unbalance life support mods that usually have thought-out grace periods for their resources. Killing kerbals too early may make the game too hard sometimes. And I haven't yet learned how to communicate with other mods yet.

2 hours ago, smokytehbear said:
  • You mentioned potential compatibility with Kerbalism in the future. Any plans to have any sort of radiation effects on health as a stand-alone for this mod? Even a very simple implementation could be a nice way to bridge the gap between Kerbalism (which isn't compatible with hardly anything) and the other LS mods like TAC. Perhaps just a quick modifier for health rates based on square of the distance to nearest star, and another just flat rate for EVA? To be honest, your mod isn't really even that much simpler to how stochastic effects of radiation are tracked and modeled in real life. Oh and additionally, various Kopernicus planet packs often include planets that supposedly have high radiation, but don't really have salient ways of implementing this. This mod could really give those a huge immersion boost.

Hmm, I'll see how hard it is to write something like this.

2 hours ago, smokytehbear said:
  • Any plans for any other exposure risks? High heat/cold, high winds, water modifiers for temperature (and radiation if submerged, even), physical exhaustion from activity, sleep deprivation? Some of them might be sort of beyond the scope, but just curious.

Again, I like the ideas. I just ain't sure I can implement it in game. One problem I foresee is that KSP doesn't calculate almost anything for unloaded vessels (and, therefore, their crews). All the factors I use at the moment hardly ever change when the vessel is not loaded, so I easily get away with caching. But temperature, for instance, changes depending on your distance from the sun, day/night side, etc. I don't think I can get this information for kerbals outside physics range. I'll think what I can do anyway.

2 hours ago, smokytehbear said:
  • Is it intended for there to be virtually no way to regain lost health except returning to Kerbin? I might be missing something in the details, I'm not sure, but it seems like everything otherwise is just mitigating the loss of health. As an aspiring interstellar explorer, this sort of worries me, as .5 lightyears even with amazing technologies will still require a pretty substantial amount of time. The slightest discrepancy, resulting in an average of even -.1 health/day, could be lethal over the long term if I can't get it back in any way. You mentioned I think that you don't have any intention of adding parts, but I'm sure that there are other mods that might have things like clinics already in them that could possibly be compatible with this one. Even very late in the tech tree would be plenty to cover interstellar travel, shouldn't need much less before then.

In fact, you can restore some of your health in-flight. You will need to have parts that give you what I call marginal health bonuses: in stock, it is only the Cupola, but MKS has a lot such parts. Depending on the negative and positive factors and the bonus, you can stabilize your kerbals' health at some level (but never really reach 100%). This was specifically made for very long missions, big motherships and stations, which are supposed to have enough level of comfort to let astronauts recuperate there. MKS also has MediBays that can rather quickly restore (but, again, not completely, you'll still need to go home for that) the kerbals inside. See wiki for an example.

2 hours ago, smokytehbear said:
  • If you would in fact like to add parts, would you want some help with that? I have no experience with Unity's modeling program, but I have done plenty of modeling/texturing with other programs (namely Lightwave and 3dsmax). Would be very easy I think for me to export for Unity compatibility, or just to learn Unity outright. I would be happy to join and collaborate if you're interested.

Thanks, will appreciate it if I decide to add some custom parts!

2 hours ago, smokytehbear said:
  • This is just me nitpicking and isn't a big deal at all, but the term "overpopulation" just seems a bit of a misnomer to me. Personally I think "crowding" could be a more appropriate term for all situations, particularly 1-3 man vessels. Overpopulation evokes more of an image of colonies, cities, or even civilizations and doesn't seem to fit with the scale of small manned rockets. Again I want to emphasize though this is purely my aesthetic opinion.

Uh, maybe. English is not my native language, so I didn't really know how to call this properly. The point is there being not enough space for the astronauts and their activities.

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55 minutes ago, garwel said:

Yep, it's in the plans. I'm working on a completely new mechanic now, random events, and then (or maybe before if I get stuck) I'm going to add support for Blizzy's Toolbar.

Will look into it. Should be easy.

Rock on.

56 minutes ago, garwel said:

I've thought about it and maybe will include it. It can make sense, in theory, but I don't want to unbalance life support mods that usually have thought-out grace periods for their resources. Killing kerbals too early may make the game too hard sometimes. And I haven't yet learned how to communicate with other mods yet.

Yeah, I can understand that. I think if done right it may not be so overwhelming though. It could only rarely come into play in actuality, but just being there in the back of your mind as one more thing to juggle could make things more immersive in my opinion. The idea of running out of food at the end of a 3 year, exhausting mission versus a 4 hour plane flight where they didn't serve you peanuts can have a strongly different effect on someone's stress levels/actual physical health.

56 minutes ago, garwel said:

Hmm, I'll see how hard it is to write something like this.

Again, I like the ideas. I just ain't sure I can implement it in game. One problem I foresee is that KSP doesn't calculate almost anything for unloaded vessels (and, therefore, their crews). All the factors I use at the moment hardly ever change when the vessel is not loaded, so I easily get away with caching. But temperature, for instance, changes depending on your distance from the sun, day/night side, etc. I don't think I can get this information for kerbals outside physics range. I'll think what I can do anyway.

I see. Hadn't thought about the sun/shadow outside of physics range part. I'm not a coder at all, so most of it may not be too practical. Do you think just assuming an "average" of day/night being half while orbiting/landed on a planet, and additionally just taking the average distance of said planet from the sun, would be too simplified? Essentially what I mean is just a small table of values for "radiation coefficients" that just affect health at a flat, unchanging rate per day, such as: Moho orbit: -2, Moho landed -1, Eve orbit: -1.5, Eve landed: 0 (thick atmosphere), Kerbin orbit: -1.5, Kerbin landed: 0... etc. A basic framework number that you could then attach multipliers to for given situations like EVA is x5 for the duration of EVA-ing, certain altitudes or longitudes could be additional factors/divisors to tack onto that. I'm just brainstorming, so if none of this is practical at all just ignore me.

1 hour ago, garwel said:

In fact, you can restore some of your health in-flight. You will need to have parts that give you what I call marginal health bonuses: in stock, it is only the Cupola, but MKS has a lot such parts. Depending on the negative and positive factors and the bonus, you can stabilize your kerbals' health at some level (but never really reach 100%). This was specifically made for very long missions, big motherships and stations, which are supposed to have enough level of comfort to let astronauts recuperate there. MKS also has MediBays that can rather quickly restore (but, again, not completely, you'll still need to go home for that) the kerbals inside. See wiki for an example.

Gotcha. I see that theoretically under nearly perfect conditions the antenna could actually give you a + as well, though unlikely. I don't have MKS MediBays (I don't think) so I missed that one. Honestly maybe I'm the one who's off on the perception of how things should be. I mean... we all die in the end. The concept of only being able to mitigate health loss is pretty true to life.

1 hour ago, garwel said:

Thanks, will appreciate it if I decide to add some custom parts!

Just give me the word. If I made a suggestion it would be a 2.5m First Aid Clinic module that can house a kerbal and slowly heal them up to a small amount, probably for the price of some resource. And then a 3.75m version that would serve as more of a Hospital for the very large space stations, complete with operating theater for more extensive healing capabilities, though again only up to a finite amount. Would put someone like me much more at ease for an interstellar mission having something like this available. I'll be sure to check out the MKS MediBays though.

1 hour ago, garwel said:

Uh, maybe. English is not my native language, 

Could have fooled me. As a language student myself that is nowhere near this fluent in anything but English, props to you for your skills.

 

 

Anyway, all these are just suggestions but of course it's your mod. More of these kinds of mods are exactly what KSP needs in my opinion.

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Kerbal Health 0.4.6

  • Added: Kerbal Health button in Tracking Station
  • Changed: Overpopulation factor renamed to Crowded
  • Fixed: actual and potential issues related to EVA
  • Other fixes and redundant code removal

Kudos to @smokytehbear for suggestions and reports that helped with many of the changes!

Download here

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I haven't had much time, or inspiration, to work on the mod lately, but I'll get back to it and add some cool (hopefully) stuff when I can. For now, here is a small update fixing a rare but nasty bug with unfocused kerbals. Thanks to everybody who uses and likes this mod!

Kerbal Health 0.4.7

  • Fixed: issues with kerbals in unfocused vessels

Download here

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So interesting mod, Thanks!

Few questions:

1. I know it not support TAC LS, but is they playable together?

2. As i understand it "disallow" long missions (more than one year). I want to use it in career, and now i plan 3 year mission with 6 kerbals. And only one rotation cycle planned. Is it possible with this mod, and what special things i need to know?

 

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6 minutes ago, GenryRar said:

So interesting mod, Thanks!

Few questions:

1. I know it not support TAC LS, but is they playable together?

2. As i understand it "disallow" long missions (more than one year). I want to use it in career, and now i plan 3 year mission with 6 kerbals. And only one rotation cycle planned. Is it possible with this mod, and what special things i need to know?

 

1. I haven't tested them together, but there shouldn't be any issues. TAC-LS only handles supplies while Kerbal Health deals with physical and emotional stress, two different things. Let me know if you encounter any problems.

2. You can have missions of whatever duration you want with Kerbal Health, but you'll need to design your vessels accordingly. There is a mechanism called marginal health bonuses that lets your kerbals keep a certain level of health (or even partially restore it) during a mission. This bonus is provided, for instance, by the cupola. You'll still need to lower the negative factors though (i.e. have enough living space, connection to Kerbin, etc.) and quite a few cupolas to achieve this effect. Check out the Tips & Tricks wiki page I've just made for some ideas and explanations.

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Just now, garwel said:

1. I haven't tested them together, but there shouldn't be any issues. TAC-LS only handles supplies while Kerbal Health deals with physical and emotional stress, two different things. Let me know if you encounter any problems.

2. You can have missions of whatever duration you want with Kerbal Health, but you'll need to design your vessels accordingly. There is a mechanism called marginal health bonuses that lets your kerbals keep a certain level of health (or even partially restore it) during a mission. This bonus is provided, for instance, by the cupola. You'll still need to lower the negative factors though (i.e. have enough living space, connection to Kerbin, etc.) and quite a few cupolas to achieve this effect. Check out the Tips & Tricks wiki page I've just made for some ideas and explanations.

Thanks for response! I will try.

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Kerbal Health 0.5.0

  • Added: events system, which activates rare, but potentially dangerous health events with your kerbals. It can be disabled or fine-tuned in the settings. See readme or wiki for more.
  • Added: support for Blizzy's Toolbar mod (not included).
  • Added: option to disable the mod
  • Added: option to show game messages (clickable buttons) instead of on-screen messages (default on)
  • Changed: EVA factor down from -50 to -30, Home factor up from +1 to +5
  • Fixed: issue of KSP 1.2.2 with floating-point and percentage parameters
  • Fixed: NRE on game exit
  • Fixed: some minor and potential issues

Download here

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On 3/1/2017 at 3:20 PM, garwel said:

1. I haven't tested them together, but there shouldn't be any issues. TAC-LS only handles supplies while Kerbal Health deals with physical and emotional stress, two different things. Let me know if you encounter any problems.

2. You can have missions of whatever duration you want with Kerbal Health, but you'll need to design your vessels accordingly. There is a mechanism called marginal health bonuses that lets your kerbals keep a certain level of health (or even partially restore it) during a mission. This bonus is provided, for instance, by the cupola. You'll still need to lower the negative factors though (i.e. have enough living space, connection to Kerbin, etc.) and quite a few cupolas to achieve this effect. Check out the Tips & Tricks wiki page I've just made for some ideas and explanations.

 

So thinking about this one... for the REALLY long missions where even TAC or USI life support becomes prohibitively expensive, like interstellar missions, there's a mod out there called Deep Freeze. It cryogenically freezes your Kerbals in exchange for a specific resource's cost and continuous EC. Any thoughts on integrating support for that? As it stands, without having tried it, I believe they would all die from Kerbal Health using that system.

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Any thoughts on this from anyone who's used it with USI-LS/MKS?

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13 hours ago, smokytehbear said:

 

So thinking about this one... for the REALLY long missions where even TAC or USI life support becomes prohibitively expensive, like interstellar missions, there's a mod out there called Deep Freeze. It cryogenically freezes your Kerbals in exchange for a specific resource's cost and continuous EC. Any thoughts on integrating support for that? As it stands, without having tried it, I believe they would all die from Kerbal Health using that system.

DeepFreeze support is planned. I'll need to learn how to hook into its systems though and I have no idea how hard or easy it is.

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10 hours ago, dlrk said:

Any thoughts on this from anyone who's used it with USI-LS/MKS?

Been using it off and on since it was moved to the releases category. Unfortunately have had to disable it a few times from some bugs, but it is still in beta so yeah.

Overall it's nice. I play with TAC but wanted to use both. The thing that bugged me about the stock game was that there's really only ever one consideration: fuel economy. Any part you put on a vessel that isn't directly related to this end better have serious justification behind it, like science/landing/etc., and it just feels like all the rockets are just hollow tubes full of fuel and a seat on the end. Trying to build anything that resembles a real space station or a real logistics center in stock only is not even just cosmetic, but highly penalized.
 

Things like this mod and TAC-LS change that a lot, I feel. The most significant negative factor to fight the stock lunacy is the amount of free space, and of course your guys go crazy like they should if they have to spend a year in a flying closet. There's really no conflicts with other LS as far as I know, it's just an extra other element that runs parallel to your (probably more major) LS concerns. I play on relatively low difficulty, lethality turned off and a pretty decent threshold to madness (for Kerbal Health that is, TAC I still have on hard). It's not a huge gameplay driver, but it's still just one more angle you can and should consider when designing voyages, and it can make your end-product much more rewarding when you get it right.

 

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7 hours ago, garwel said:

DeepFreeze support is planned. I'll need to learn how to hook into its systems though and I have no idea how hard or easy it is.

Interesting. Maybe kerbals would have a small chance of having a Panic Attack upon being revived.

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13 hours ago, dlrk said:

How does this work with USI's habitation?

It is recommended to disable USI habitation with Kerbal Health. In fact, the very reason I made KH in the first place was my dissatisfaction with USI-LS habitation mechanics, so these largely address the same issues, but in different ways.

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On 05/03/2017 at 8:03 AM, garwel said:

It is recommended to disable USI habitation with Kerbal Health. In fact, the very reason I made KH in the first place was my dissatisfaction with USI-LS habitation mechanics, so these largely address the same issues, but in different ways.

How does one disable USI habitation?

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13 hours ago, cyberpunkdreams said:

How does one disable USI habitation?

Just open USI-LS settings in the KSC screen and choose none for habitation effects (twice, for veterans and ordinary astronauts).

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