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[1.11.X] Feline Utility Rovers v1.2.12 (16.April 2021)


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Just now, FirroSeranel said:

Still doing it even without IFS.

Configurable Containers I can't remove, because USI itself is dependent on it.

That is really weird...i also have USI LS and MKS installed at the moment and the part works as intended...

Are you sure it says "Next fuel" and  "Previous fuel? The parts from FUR have "Next Resource: [ResourceName]" and "Prev Resource: [ResourceName]" as text. This would be definitely another mod doing unintended things to the parts. 

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Oh wow, I just noticed the life support module is supposed to have a recycler as well. That isn't showing up at all in game. It's like the entire USI Life Support section just isn't loading.

The fact that it is loading the electric charge makes me wonder if those two things are incompatible somehow?

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5 minutes ago, FirroSeranel said:

Oh wow, I just noticed the life support module is supposed to have a recycler as well. That isn't showing up at all in game. It's like the entire USI Life Support section just isn't loading.

The fact that it is loading the electric charge makes me wonder if those two things are incompatible somehow?

You can try to remove the electric charge. All other parts being able to have switchable resources also have EC though and it works. Can you take a look at the Lynx Big Fueltank and the Lynx Small Fueltank if they can switch their resources? Except for the Recycler and used Resources they are identical to the Life Support Module.

Edited by Nils277
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Sure, I'll try that on my next load. With this many mods, it takes about 10-15 minutes to load the game, heh.

Right now I'm trying it with the EC commented out.

10 minutes ago, Nils277 said:

That is really weird...i also have USI LS and MKS installed at the moment and the part works as intended...

Are you sure it says "Next fuel" and  "Previous fuel? The parts from FUR have "Next Resource: [ResourceName]" and "Prev Resource: [ResourceName]" as text. This would be definitely another mod doing unintended things to the parts. 

 

Yes, that's why I thought it was very odd. But those aren't buttons that are in Configurable Containers; that has its own GUI with a button that says something like "Configure Tanks" to open its interface.

That's why I thought it could be B9 Part Switch, but I'm loathe to kill off 20 mods to check. Still, I suppose I can always add them back, if the EC thing doesn't work.

For the fuel tanks, what does FUR say on the buttons? If the fuel tanks work, but the buttons are wrong, then that'd narrow it down to B9, I think.

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14 minutes ago, FirroSeranel said:

Stock ladders often require rotation as well, depending on what you're putting them in. It's probably because if you have angle snap turned on, it's trying to angle it as if it were below the center line of a cylinder. Try it with angle snap off.

That fixed it. thanks!

14 minutes ago, Nils277 said:

Oh yes, the bumper is not for the front of the rover it is an alternative front/rear for e.g. the flatbeds or freight parts when you want to have them as separate trailer.

Now I see. Bigger node to module and smaller one to attach hinge.

I tried two front and four rear parts and it was bad on all of them. On Cockpit bigger node attaches to hinge node of Cockpit. That was the reason of low level. On read modules it closes rear red lights.

It seems red lights would look good on bumper. At least as an option.

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2 minutes ago, Sebra said:

That fixed it. thanks!

Now I see. Bigger node to module and smaller one to attach hinge.

I tried two front and four rear parts and it was bad on all of them. On Cockpit bigger node attaches to hinge node of Cockpit. That was the reason of low level. On read modules it closes rear red lights.

It seems red lights would look good on bumper. At least as an option.

Right click on the bumper in the editor (it does not work in flight). You can switch between "No light", "Front lights" and "Rear lights". The "Rear lights" option has red lights.

Edited by Nils277
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A simple idea for some added functionality, by the way...

The only real competitor at this point for the FUR, is the Karibou, and I like the FUR a lot better, but Karibou does have jump jet engine segments, and RCS segments, which are just as physically tough as the rest of the rover.

Rather than going through all the rigamarole of creating those segments from scratch... what if you just created a simple rail-only section, with just the bottom rail. Or alternatively, a narrow section so it's just like a hallway kerbals could pass through, with room for small surface attach engines on the sides, where they'd be fully protected in a rollover by the rover's body? That way it could be its own lander, without fragile parts breaking off when I run out of talent driving it. <.<

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2 minutes ago, Nils277 said:

Right click on the bumper in the editor (it does not work in flight). You can switch between "No light", "Front lights" and "Rear lights". The "Rear lights" option has red lights.

Found it , thanks! :)

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5 minutes ago, Sebra said:

Found it , thanks! :)

You can do this witht the front piece now too btw. :wink: 

8 minutes ago, FirroSeranel said:

A simple idea for some added functionality, by the way...

The only real competitor at this point for the FUR, is the Karibou, and I like the FUR a lot better, but Karibou does have jump jet engine segments, and RCS segments, which are just as physically tough as the rest of the rover.

Rather than going through all the rigamarole of creating those segments from scratch... what if you just created a simple rail-only section, with just the bottom rail. Or alternatively, a narrow section so it's just like a hallway kerbals could pass through, with room for small surface attach engines on the sides, where they'd be fully protected in a rollover by the rover's body? That way it could be its own lander, without fragile parts breaking off when I run out of talent driving it. <.<

I already have something in mind for RCS/Jet Engine and Legs :wink: 

4 minutes ago, FirroSeranel said:

Okay. Commenting out EC didn't fix it.

Fuel, cargo, and KIS containers all work correctly, with FUR language on the buttons. So it's narrowed down to just the life support module.

Now I'll try loading up without B9.

Very weird...looked at B9 and it does not seem to do anything to any parts automatically...
If this does not help, can you send me the KSP.log file? Maybe i can see something fishy in there.

Edit: The only other thing different is the Recycler...can you also try out if it works without it?

Edited by Nils277
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22 hours ago, iTzPepperony said:
Can you help me or give me some hints on how to send the Rover made from this mod to the Moon?

 

Make a Roro and put the Lynx decoupler on its back, add the fairing and put all rover inside this fairing from down to up ending with a spike nose from closed fairing. This is your cargo - the same way uou will be packing other not aerodynamic parts in future (3 satelite pack, probe)

there is no other command modules other than Rover, so if u lack SAS options on Roro, take some probe core on the main rocket

Beneath the cargo condom:

2,5m reaction wheel (if u dont have this size, use 1,25 wheel between roro decoupler and the fairing disc)

rockomax fuel barrel 2,5m (the last white one) + poodle engine + decoupler

orange fuel tank 2,5m + skipper engine + decoupler

orange fuel tank 2,5m + mainsail engine + decoupler

8 largest kickers on distanced radial decouplers mounted pretty high (their bottoms should be higher than the last main engine)

8 arv8 winglets between kickers on the kicker engine level (use symmetry + shift positioning to precise place)

add 8 static winglets on the top of the last stage

add the starting ramps (i mean the rocket holders, dont remember name, the construction that u leave on the launchpad) otherwise the rocket will flip on the pad coz the kickers end above the ground, make them in the same stage as kickers

use mech jeb while building (put mechjeb gadget only for building stage - no sense to carry it all the way), see deltaV stats, check the stages reduce kicker stage thrust to let it be 1.2 SLT or just reduce the kicker thrust to 90% and see if its enough to slowly derp u in the sky (the derp speed is not bad, slow start got its advantages)

reinforce the main rocket decouplers with 4 struts each (turn off the shroud to see and place it well)

use slanted nose cones on kickers

connect kicker BOTTOMS with struts to your main rocket

- its a long and heavy cargo, some tips there in stage order (remodel the staging to achieve best results) - stages in reverse order as they kick in:

1. rocket holders + kickers, u should start slowly (additionally u can manually turn the main engine before u deploy the holders to have good initial kick and turn it off with X 10s after start, having the main engine support on your shift/ctrl buttons - jus right click the main engine from staging sequence if u need it)

this is the gravity travel stage, u just derp higher - preferrably to 8-16km, make the late gravity turn above 2km, just drop the nose by 10-20 degrees

best results when u have the kicker decouplers in the same stage as mainsail engine so in the same moment u deploy the kickers and have a boost to run from them and save ur ass from bumps, if u already turned ur main engine to support start, just slow a little, then push max thrust and decouple kickers

best results when u use SAS on prograde for the time u decouple kickers so your rocket travels paralel to the airflow making the sausages just slip back gently

2. Main engine stage - continue the gravity turn - drop nose to 45 degrees and travel such way to 25-30km height, then turn more to the horizon, start observing your apo on map, correct the heading to 90 (i hope u remember to start on east side - this hives u extra 200m/s orbital speed since the planet tuns that way), cool down when reaching apo above 80km, watch map, SAS on prograde, check your ability to make your orbit round by kicking full throttle in the same time u approach your apo (just go Z / X while observing apo on map, kick when u closer, hold for a while when the apo goes too far) ... this engine fuel may end before u reach the stable orbit - no worry stage next

3. Manually deploy the fairing after 65km or above the atmosphere coz its heavy and u dont need aerodynamic shield on this attitude, use the middle stage engine wisely - its your main travel tool. Stasbilise the orbit on just above 120km (faster warp) or just above 70km (if u worry about fuel)

If u carry any deployable solar panels on the rover, u can deploy it now and dont forget to retract before landing

a) NODE mode: Use the node editor to add maneouvre (this word is weird) add it in some distance on your orbit so u can easy edit and MOVE it later and u dont cross the node point before u see all u need. Set Mun as target, scroll mouse up on the prograde icon until the planned orange apo (right click to hold observe it) reach 9800km - its the early Mun gravity influence range - u can keep your planned apo in range (11400km +/- mun gravity influence) but the 9800 is a nice and fuel efficient point, then just take the node and move it around your orbit to find the place u meet the mun at the orbit top, go to the node and straight to to the grade ( i mean full throttle on prograde), u can use shift/ctrl if u un-hide the navball on the map. start burst earlier than its demanded (if u see estimated burn 2 minutes, start it 1 minute before the node), fine tune it with shift/ctrl observing the maneouvre blue vector point at navball

b) NOBe mode :wink: if u dont have access to node editing, just burst on prograde till u reach 10000 km apo and stable periapsic above 120km then warp and circle as crazy until u meet the Mun gravity :D

* ascending/descending node markers when mun is set as target - go to the node and correct it with normal/antinormal burst (normal for add, antinormal to subtract : so if u see descending node -3 degrees u just derp there, turn to normal and burn until it reach 0.0 (+/- 0.5 no sense to fix whats not broken 0.5 degree is a good result). Beware, the AS/DS nodes move when u are close to zero, so u may need to correct it 2-3 times from fifferent places). If u dont remember the markers or just lazy u just go there, turn to prograde, drop nose to horizon and turn perpendicular left or right , then burn and check how it changes the node, if wrong, just turn opposite way :)

After u reach the mun encounter from 9800km orbit u will be on the strange semi-linear mun orbit. In fact its a very large ellipse part and u are near PE. Since we need to lower both APO and PE on this virtual Mun orbit we can star retrograding right now. Push full throttle on mun orbit retrograde till the PE reach ~100km then derp to the PE (which have already moved from us to the place beneath the mun) and finish retrograding from PE to close the elipse orbit around mun. Most probably during this part u got to deploy the last stage engine.

4. Depending on fuel ammount and cargo mass +/- self confidence factor u need to lower both APO and PE before landing. Retrograde to the stable 10km Mun orbit. U can start landing sequence from higher APO orbit if u got low mass/high TWR. U want to have both points low = low orbit speed on PE if u got poor TWR. Start burning retro from 10-6,5km orbit and preferrably try to make it from the shadow edge in the "sunny" direction so u land on the sunny part.

U got over 500m/s to burn down. Its up to you how u plan the touchdown. I dont use RCS on mun rovers i just land at the last engine bottom and let it flip gently on the wheels :D in this plan the last engine is your last weapon against hitting the ground. Be sure every outside mounted part is destroyed if u hit the ground faster than 15m/s coz of unplanned spinning, edge hits etc.

I also use KIS and engineer to dismount and take with me the reaction wheel from the very last stage of my rocket - its very useful in rover stories ;P

p.s. dont forget the parachutes and the Kraken bait

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28 minutes ago, FirroSeranel said:

Nope, getting rid of the recycler didn't help.

I noticed in the part catalog, there is a correct Resource Switch box... but then an empty one underneath it. Could that have anything to do with it?

nEzdYPn.png

That might be IS the problem....just looked at your Log and saw, that MM thinks that Snacks is installed and therefore also adds the config for it. And the Resource Switch will definitely not work when two of them are in the same part.

I found the mod responsible for this mess: Cormorant Aeronology it has FOR[Snacks] defined in its config. This makes MM think that Snacks is installed and enalbles all the modules from other mods supporting it. I don't know why a mod other than Snacks itself makes this as it messes with all other modes supporting another mod...

Edited by Nils277
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*facepalms* For crying out loud.

Well, quite well done! I was just about to say, completely deleting all but the USI section fixed it, but I hadn't narrowed it down that far yet.

*applauds*

Alright, thanks! I'll report that in that mod's forum. I think it's Shuttle Lifting Body or something, which I mostly only have installed because it has a really cool tail fin with a split rudder that can act as an airbrake.

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2 minutes ago, Nils277 said:

I found the mod responsible for this mess: Cormorant Aeronology it has FOR[Snacks] defined in its config. This makes MM think that Snacks is installed and enalbles all the modules from other mods supporting it. I don't know why a mod other than Snacks itself makes this as it messes with all other modes supporting another mod...

This type of thing is a common enough error that for the most common classes, I have a script that auto-scans anything added to my GameData folder to check.  ':FOR' is badly named, and people tend to think of it with the common meaning of 'for when $x is satisfied', instead of 'this part is for $x'.

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I still do wonder why the undercarriage LS container worked properly. I checked all the syntax in the two .cfg files, and they're identical except for the EC section, the Recycler section, the node definitions, and the fact that the undercarriage specifies that it's a Rover ship type.

Very strange. But again well done. You're a hero!

Come to think of it, I had noticed life support stuff from mods other than USI itself never quite working properly. This was just the first case where it didn't work at all.

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2 minutes ago, FirroSeranel said:

I still do wonder why the undercarriage LS container worked properly. I checked all the syntax in the two .cfg files, and they're identical except for the EC section, the Recycler section, the node definitions, and the fact that the undercarriage specifies that it's a Rover ship type.

Very strange. But again well done. You're a hero!

Come to think of it, I had noticed life support stuff from mods other than USI itself never quite working properly. This was just the first case where it didn't work at all.

This is indeed weird, it should not have worked for the undercarriage too. Maybe there is an error and it does never add the module for Snacks...

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Ah. CKAN doesn't know about the latest release of that mod yet. Ah well, I only have it for one seldom-used part, so I'll just do without it for now.

Actually this whole adventure has weeded out a lot of mods I don't -really- need, and cut my load time in half, and my memory usage from 83% to 68% while KSP is running (36% with just my normal vast array of Chrome tabs and stuff. <.<)

Half the stuff I mostly had so I could run the Mark IV system, but if the rover will fit into an OPT K-class cargo bay, I won't even need it. I... almost suspect I could fit a main rover, and a trailer with the narrower wheels beside it, actually. That thing is huge!

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9 hours ago, Nils277 said:

Thinking about it, you are right that removing the converter made the lab kinda useless...

It just a bit frustrating when the first reply for ~3 Weeks work on this mod is criticism :wink:  

Well, technically the first reply to your announcement of the excellent 0.3 beta update was a bunch of people Liking your post. :)

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@Nils277 this mod is absolutely awesome, especially the flexible joints and the whole design of the rovers :)

If I may make a few suggestions, though, would it be possible to have frontal versions of some tail pieces (the tank, cargo ramp, airlock) maybe through mesh variant or texture switch, or maybe an interesting combination of functions in some parts (passable fuel tank with lower capacity, roof storage, airlock/fuel tank, airlock/RemoteControl front piece, drill, cargo bay with doors to the roof, deployable support legs from side wedge or dettachable passable bellowed joint)?

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