keptin

[1.2.2] Kerbal Aircraft Expansion (KAX) v2.6.4

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1 hour ago, Grand Ship Builder said:

jump jet engine should be able to rotate

I have mentioned this before, But i found that using IR works much better when Incorporated with the the jump jet...given the fact that you can control the direction of thrust as you see fit, in apposed to only UP and DOWN. I would recommend you use a rotation disk or anything that has circular rotation and you will profit.  

 

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Is it OK that the propellers make so much drag?

This is especially noticeable with the electric propeller.

Edited by Teilnehmer

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The main problem is that the thrust on the electric prop is constant and doesn't vary with speed or altitude. It's a decent approximation of real behavior for Kerbin and Laythe, but since Duna has such low gravity, you can literally fly into orbit with the current config :sticktongue: So I went into the configs and tweaked the numbers so that it behaves a bit more realistically.

PART
{
// Kerbal Space Program - Part Config
// e50 Electric Propeller Engine
// 

// --- general parameters ---
name = KAXelectricprop
module = Part
author = Keptin
//Big thanks to Snjo for his Firespitter plugin and help!

// --- asset parameters ---
mesh = electricProp.mu
rescaleFactor = 0.01

// --- node definitions ---
node_attach = 0.0, 0.0, 5.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0


// --- editor parameters ---
TechRequired = aerodynamicSystems
entryCost = 3200
cost = 750
category = Propulsion
subcategory = 0
title = e50 Electric Propeller Engine
manufacturer = Kerbal Aircraft Expansioneers Ltd
description = An electric motor.

// attachment rules: stack, srfAttach, allowStack, allowSrfAttach, allowCollision
attachRules = 0,1,0,1,0

// --- standard part parameters ---
mass = 0.2
dragModelType = default
maximum_drag = 0.2
minimum_drag = 0.3
angularDrag = 2
crashTolerance = 6
breakingForce = 50
breakingTorque = 50
maxTemp = 2900
fuelCrossFeed = True

MODULE
{
	name = ModuleEnginesFX
	thrustVectorTransformName = thrustTransform
	exhaustDamage = False
	ignitionThreshold = 0.1
	minThrust = 0
	maxThrust = 1
	heatProduction = 8
	useEngineResponseTime = True
	engineAccelerationSpeed = 20
	engineDecelerationSpeed = 20
	spoolEffectName = idle
	PROPELLANT
	{
		name = ElectricCharge
		ratio = 0.4
		DrawGauge = True
	}
	PROPELLANT
	{
		name = FSCoolant
		ratio = 0.01
	}
    atmosphereCurve
    {
		key = 0 800
		key = 1 800
    }
	atmChangeFlow = True
	multFlow = False
	useVelCurve = True
	useAtmCurve = True
	atmCurve
	{
		key = 0 0 0 0
		key = 0.05 0.15 0.1 0.1
		key = 0.3 0.25 0.6 0.6
		key = 1 1 0.4 0.4
		key = 5 2 0 0
	}
	velCurve
	{
		key = 0 1 0 0
		key = 0.5 0.8 -0.9460317 -0.9460317
		key = 0.8 0.3523809 -1.626984 -1.626984
		key = 1 0 -1.761905 -1.761905
	}
}

EFFECTS
	{		
		idle
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = KAX/Sounds/sound_kax_electricpropIdle
				volume = 0.0 0.0
				volume = 0.01 0.7
				volume = 1.0 0.7
				pitch = 0.0 0.5
				pitch = 1.0 0.65
				loop = true
			}
		}
	}


RESOURCE
{
    name = FSCoolant
    amount = 5.0
    maxAmount = 5.0
}

MODULE
{
  name = ModuleResourceIntake
  resourceName = FSCoolant
  checkForOxygen = false
  area = 1
  intakeSpeed = 50
  intakeTransformName = thrustTransform //Intake  
}

MODULE
{
	name = FSplanePropellerSpinner
	propellerName = geo_nosecone	
	rotationSpeed = 400
	//thrustRPM = 200
	windmillRPM = 0.1
	spinUpTime = 10 //15.0
	useRotorDiscSwap = 1
	rotorDiscFadeInStart = 0.95
	rotorDiscFadeInEnd = .95
	rotorDiscSpeed = 80
	rotorDiscName = geo_propBlur
	blade1 = geo_blade1
	blade2 = geo_blade2
	blade3 = geo_nosecone
}

MODULE
{
	name = FSplanePropellerSpinner
	//propellerName = geo_nosecone	
	rotationSpeed = 400
	//thrustRPM = 200
	windmillRPM = 0.1
	spinUpTime = 10 //15.0
	useRotorDiscSwap = 1
	rotorDiscFadeInStart = 0.95
	rotorDiscFadeInEnd = .95
	rotorDiscSpeed = 400
	rotorDiscName = geo_hubBlur
}

MODULE
{
	name = FSswitchEngineThrustTransform
	defaultTTName = thrustTransform
	alternateTTName = alternateThrustTransform
	useNamedAlternate = 0
}
}

Real propellers lose thrust as they approach Mach 1 because the shockwaves seperate the air flow from the blades. And it decreases as pressure decreases because, well, there's less stuff for it to push against. To offset the decreased thrust at altitude, I doubled the base thrust so electric planes should handle roughly the same on Kerbin but have much more realistic behavior on other planets.

For reference, thrust is roughly double at the surface of Eve and about 15-20% on the surface of Duna (which is more than sufficient for takeoff given the low gravity and a large enough wing). My test plane could get up to 8km on Duna and about 17km on Eve. A warning though: you will not get up to high speeds with these propellers--I have yet to break 100m/s outside of a dive, although I suppose with enough engines it could be done.

Spoiler

 

KyhHV1b.jpg

Note the stupidly large control surfaces: good for flight on Duna :D

Also I came to these numbers basically by stealing configs from other mods and trial and error. I know almost nothing about doing curves properly in KSP so if someone with more knowledge/experience wants to look them over for me, I'd really appreciate it. Also I still need to fix the energy consumption--because thrust is so low on Duna, the energy consumption is also low. But in real life, the propeller would still be spinning very fast and using the same energy, just have lower thrust because of the thin atmosphere. I probably need to mess around with an atmosphere ISP curve but I don't feel like doing that right now :huh:

tl;dr these thrust curves for the electric propeller should be more realistic while still making flight on other planets possible

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39 minutes ago, Varses said:

Also I came to these numbers basically by stealing configs from other mods and trial and error. I know almost nothing about doing curves properly in KSP so if someone with more knowledge/experience wants to look them over for me, I'd really appreciate it. Also I still need to fix the energy consumption--because thrust is so low on Duna, the energy consumption is also low. But in real life, the propeller would still be spinning very fast and using the same energy, just have lower thrust because of the thin atmosphere. I probably need to mess around with an atmosphere ISP curve but I don't feel like doing that right now :huh:

tl;dr these thrust curves for the electric propeller should be more realistic while still making flight on other planets possible

Awesome! Cheers for doing this. Between KAX and Airplane Plus, it's easy to forget that this is actually a "rocket" game. :)

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6 hours ago, Varses said:

So I went into the configs and tweaked the numbers so that it behaves a bit more realistically.

MM version:

@PART[KAXelectricprop]:FINAL
{
  @MODULE[ModuleEnginesFX]
  {
    @maxThrust = 1
    !useVelocityCurve = True
    atmChangeFlow = True
    multFlow = False
    useVelCurve = True
    useAtmCurve = True
    !velocityCurve {}
    atmCurve
    {
      key = 0 0 0 0
      key = 0.05 0.15 0.1 0.1
      key = 0.3 0.25 0.6 0.6
      key = 1 1 0.4 0.4
      key = 5 2 0 0
    }
    velCurve
    {
      key = 0 1 0 0
      key = 0.5 0.8 -0.9460317 -0.9460317
      key = 0.8 0.3523809 -1.626984 -1.626984
      key = 1 0 -1.761905 -1.761905
    }
  }
}

 

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8 hours ago, Varses said:

Also I still need to fix the energy consumption--because thrust is so low on Duna, the energy consumption is also low. But in real life, the propeller would still be spinning very fast and using the same energy, just have lower thrust because of the thin atmosphere.

The power needed to rotate the propeller depends not only on the rotation speed, but also on the drag force applied to the blades, doesn’t it? In a thin atmosphere, it is easier to spin the propeller with the same speed.

Or is the rotation speed on Duna also higher so the power remains the same?

Edited by Teilnehmer

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I mean, I'm totally making this up as I go :P Yes, there is less drag at lower pressure so...I dunno. From a purely gameplay perspective it seems ridiculous to me that on Duna you need far fewer solar cells to run at max throttle than on Kerbin, despite the greater distance of Duna.

Also, thanks for the MM version @Drew Kerman. It's been forever since I did any config modding and module manager completely slipped my mind.

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Im not sure where to ask this. But this is the mod im having a question about. I made a nice lil vtol craft out of 6x air brakes(pitch/yaw on) and some electrical rotor engines. My goal is to make a self substaining hover craft that can stay in flight indefinatly off solar power...yet my only draw back is figureing out how to hover. Is it a fine balance between weight and thrust right now...or is there a mode that can be enabled...ive checked the engines action group options...and there isnt one for hovering. 

 

6 engines and my craft doesnt weigh a lot so i only need about 15-20%thrust for lift off. Big overkill i know....lol and id rather not have to reduce the engine count as 6 looks pretty nice on it. It also stays level like a dream. Those air brakes are a god send and look amazing when extended off the rotors themselfs

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Tried searching with no luck. Not a major issue but it's annoying. 1). when I have a prop engine from KAX, as soon as I hit the air strip, the engine noise is going even when the engine is off. 2). In the parts menu when building a plane, the propeller portion of the engine is black with yellow blade tips... like an inverse of what it should be.

 

I tried updating, removing, and readding KAX - same issue

Ideas? Thanks

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3 hours ago, Pandemic said:

I'd love to be able to use this in 1.3. Any plans on updating KAX?

this pack of parts depends on Firespitter, which has been updated. Have you confirmed there are in fact issues that exist in 1.3?

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Hello,

Fresh 1.3.0 x64, MM 2.8.0, Firespitter 7.6, KAX 2.6.4

1 pod, 1 tank, 1 intake, 1 rotor : Running normally expect lots of NRE just after start (staging) the engine.

[ERR 22:20:28.981] Module FSplanePropellerSpinner threw during OnUpdate: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at Firespitter.engine.FSplanePropellerSpinner.OnUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Part.ModulesOnUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

craft/log on demand if needed

See you,

Vive_moi

Edited by Vive_moi

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50 minutes ago, zakkpaz said:

whats NRE?

Null Reference Error or Null Reference Exception also known as a very bad thing in programming that tends to brake a lot of stuff/indicate that a lot of stuff is broken (depends on where the error/exception comes from)

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I have encountered no problems with KAX on 1.3.

On 3.6.2017 at 10:25 PM, Vive_moi said:

Hello,

Fresh 1.3.0 x64, MM 2.8.0, Firespitter 7.6, KAX 2.6.4

1 pod, 1 tank, 1 intake, 1 rotor : Running normally expect lots of NRE just after start (staging) the engine.


[ERR 22:20:28.981] Module FSplanePropellerSpinner threw during OnUpdate: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at Firespitter.engine.FSplanePropellerSpinner.OnUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Part.ModulesOnUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

craft/log on demand if needed

See you,

Vive_moi

 

When updating Firesplitter, make sure that Resources subdirectory (which KAX provides inside bundled Firesplitter) is intact.
Looks like you have a .. clean Firesplitter without KAX plugins inside.

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So even if KAX says it's only good for 1.2, I can use it in 1.3? WHat do I need to download and where do I need to install it?

 

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28 minutes ago, SSgt Baloo said:

So even if KAX says it's only good for 1.2, I can use it in 1.3? WHat do I need to download and where do I need to install it?

 

It works fine provided you DO NOT use the included version of Firespitter. Download the latest version from here and use it instead. 

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I already have the Firespitter mod. Will the included version override that one? If that would cause problems, what steps must I take to avoid them?

 

Edited by SSgt Baloo

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25 minutes ago, SSgt Baloo said:

I already have the Firespitter mod. Will the included version override that one? If that would cause problems, what steps must I take to avoid them?

 

The included version will blow up/overwrite the current (newer) one. Make sure to only copy in the KAX folder.

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14 hours ago, Beetlecat said:

The included version will blow up/overwrite the current (newer) one. Make sure to only copy in the KAX folder.

I tried that, but none of the parts from the mod were showing up in the hangar. I've managed to download some other mods I'm fond of that aren't available on CKAN yet, but I think this is one of the ones I'm gonna have to wait to come out on CKAN before I can install it.

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34 minutes ago, SSgt Baloo said:

I tried that, but none of the parts from the mod were showing up in the hangar. I've managed to download some other mods I'm fond of that aren't available on CKAN yet, but I think this is one of the ones I'm gonna have to wait to come out on CKAN before I can install it.

If you hop into the CKAN settings, you can enable 1.2.2 or 1.2.1 -based mods. KAX may be an option there.

Otherwise, copying the KAX folder to GameData is pretty simple though. Just make sure there are no extra folders or duplications (like a "GameData" in "GameData", etc.). Troubleshooting your attempt could be easier (and quicker) than waiting for KAX to be updated for 1.3. :wink:

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