Boeing reveals new spacesuit for CST-100

[mikegarrison]

You guys keep talking about the water, but the CST-100 is designed to land on dry land. (Of course, in an abort it would come down wherever it comes down.)

The landing is cushioned by large airbags, which I assume would also serve as flotation aids if it landed in water.

[magnemoe]

45 minutes ago, mikegarrison said:

You guys keep talking about the water, but the CST-100 is designed to land on dry land. (Of course, in an abort it would come down wherever it comes down.)

The landing is cushioned by large airbags, which I assume would also serve as flotation aids if it landed in water.

That was new for me, I assumed water landing. 

[kerbiloid]

49 minutes ago, magnemoe said:

I assumed water landing. 

No, there were videos.

Spoiler

 

 

1 hour ago, mikegarrison said:

You guys keep talking about the water, but the CST-100 is designed to land on dry land.

Voskhod also was not designed to land in the forest.

Spoiler

https://www.drive2.ru/l/8550088/

 

1 hour ago, mikegarrison said:

The landing is cushioned by large airbags, which I assume would also serve as flotation aids if it landed in water.

Indeed.

Spoiler

 

[Tullius]

45 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

 

  Hide contents

https://www.drive2.ru/l/8550088/

 

Indeed.

  Hide contents

 

The problem is Gus Grissoms Liberty Bell 7 lacked the floatation collars, which were only added to all subsequent American space capsules after the mishap with the premature firing of the explosive bolts from the hatch. Without the mishap with the hatch, the capsule would have floated all by itself without any floatation aids.

To only similar incident was Soyuz 23 which landed in a lake and was subsequently dragged underwater by its parachute. If not for the soaked parachute, the capsule would have floated allowing for a quick recovery. The cosmonauts were eventually recovered from their capsule some 10 hours later. Even if they had the chance to leave the capsule, I am not sure if the likelihood of survival (orange suit or not) would have been better, since it would have meant floating in the middle of a frozen lake at -22°C in a blizzard at night.

So the astronauts would only need to leave their capsule, if, due to some incident, the capsule would suddenly start sinking. Then maybe having an orange suit would help. But that also means that you need to make sure that the suit floats reasonably well and having life rafts for the crew (which for a CST-100 with up to 7 astronauts would need to be pretty big), so why not add more systems to prevent the capsule from sinking instead?

Edited January 27, 2017 by Tullius

[kerbiloid]

Absolutely the same can be said about any seaship.
Also any ship has inflatable rescue rafts.

But why rescue jackets (and rafts) stay vulgar red / orange?
Probably because they are not home robes to be an eye candy, but just a dull rescue thing.
So, sitting in a capsule in a spacesuit is like sitting in a boat in a rescue jacket, nothing more.

When they arrive to ISS they put on nice white/blue shirts.

 

Edited January 27, 2017 by kerbiloid

[YNM]

Ah, I see. Just like Soyuz then - no landing on water expected. (and so Dragon V2.)

I suppose keeping some ship is indeed more expensive than having to have some fleet of land vehicles.

[mikegarrison]

3 hours ago, YNM said:

I suppose keeping some ship is indeed more expensive than having to have some fleet of land vehicles.

I doubt this is the reason.

CST-100 and Dragon2 are both supposed to be reusable for about 10 missions. Saltwater is very corrosive. I would guess that if any capsule does land in the ocean, it would not be reused.

[magnemoe]

14 minutes ago, mikegarrison said:

I doubt this is the reason.

CST-100 and Dragon2 are both supposed to be reusable for about 10 missions. Saltwater is very corrosive. I would guess that if any capsule does land in the ocean, it would not be reused.

Yes, the part who is not inside the pressurized crew compartment will have to have ventilation openings to normalize pressure, also easy to get water in during the low speed crash the splashdown is. 
Reuse after an splashdown would be far harder. 
And yes I misunderstood, Orion is supposed to splash down mixed that and cst-100 

Cheaper recovery is an added bonus but not the primary one. 

Edited January 27, 2017 by magnemoe

[YNM]

2 hours ago, mikegarrison said:

Saltwater is very corrosive.

Ah, very fine points there. Forgot that the sea is salty.

[radonek]

10 hours ago, Tullius said:

so why not add more systems to prevent the capsule from sinking instead?

I don't see where does that "instead" come from. Is there some law about regulating safety equipment based on suit color? Are bright colors somehow incompatibile with safety equipment? Or is orange pigment just so expensive as to exhaust funds for other safeties?

[Tullius]

37 minutes ago, radonek said:

I don't see where does that "instead" come from. Is there some law about regulating safety equipment based on suit color? Are bright colors somehow incompatibile with safety equipment? Or is orange pigment just so expensive as to exhaust funds for other safeties?

I was mostly relating it to the fact that if the suits had to be orange so the astronauts would be spotted easier in the water, there also has to be equipment onboard to allow them to survive in the water. The new suit is, if the helmet is open (as it need be if you are not connected to the spacecraft, not watertight and, even worse, it will quickly fill with water, so you need to have life vests or life rafts onboard, which adds extra weight, which could also be used to be even more certain that the capsule could not sink, completely forgoing the option of the astronauts leaving the capsule.

[radonek]

11 minutes ago, Tullius said:

The new suit is, if the helmet is open (as it need be if you are not connected to the spacecraft, not watertight and, even worse, it will quickly fill with water

Easily prevented by simple device called the neck dam that was, not coincidentally, used by NASA since dawn of time. Including that one occasion when astronaut had to be rescued from sea that you still fail to take into consideration. 

[mikegarrison]

In the early days of flight, it was very important for the pilot to wear goggles, dress in warm clothes, and wear a scarf to keep his neck warm. I am shocked (shocked!) that current airlines do not require their pilots to wear such items. After all, once upon a time it was very likely that they would have been needed!

[Motokid600]

Hot pink... hot pink would've been better. You'd have to try to miss that in the water....

[munlander1]

1 hour ago, Motokid600 said:

Hot pink... hot pink would've been better. You'd have to try to miss that in the water....

The ocean is a big place. One of my teachers was in the navy and they were doing man overboard drills and they lost one or both the dummies. They were bright orange.

[Slam_Jones]

42 minutes ago, munlander1 said:

The ocean is a big place. One of my teachers was in the navy and they were doing man overboard drills and they lost one or both the dummies. They were bright orange.

True this.  It's easy to see that bright orange floating thing... until it disappears behind a wave and you lose LOS.  At which point, good luck finding it again!   (Although they taught us to continue pointing towards it, even if you lose LOS temporarily.)

Edited January 28, 2017 by Slam_Jones

[Motokid600]

5 hours ago, munlander1 said:

The ocean is a big place. One of my teachers was in the navy and they were doing man overboard drills and they lost one or both the dummies. They were bright orange.

I was just kidding, they could probably light up flares, fireworks, tire-fires and still get lost in the ocean.,

[kerbiloid]

6 hours ago, mikegarrison said:

In the early days of flight, it was very important for the pilot to wear goggles, dress in warm clothes, and wear a scarf to keep his neck warm. I am shocked (shocked!) that current airlines do not require their pilots to wear such items

Does the ultramodern spaceship, in which these fancy suits will be flying. at least have a toilet like in the ancient Soyuz from the early days of flight?
Otherwise they would care more not about color, but about spacious suit trousers, no?
But the color looks stylish, yes.

Why not then let the ocean cruise ship passengers buy any rescue jackets they want? Why are they still orange?

[mikegarrison]

1 hour ago, kerbiloid said:

Does the ultramodern spaceship, in which these fancy suits will be flying. at least have a toilet like in the ancient Soyuz from the early days of flight?
Otherwise they would care more not about color, but about spacious suit trousers, no?

You would know the answer if you had watched the video.

Edited January 28, 2017 by mikegarrison

[Nibb31]

2 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Does the ultramodern spaceship, in which these fancy suits will be flying. at least have a toilet like in the ancient Soyuz from the early days of flight?

Does it need one ? It will typically take 6 to 12 hours to get to the space station. You just make your arrangements before you get on board and you wear a diaper.

Quote

Why not then let the ocean cruise ship passengers buy any rescue jackets they want? Why are they still orange?

Because cruise ships sink and people bail out. A capsule doesn't sink and you don't bail out.

10 hours ago, Tullius said:

I was mostly relating it to the fact that if the suits had to be orange so the astronauts would be spotted easier in the water, there also has to be equipment onboard to allow them to survive in the water. The new suit is, if the helmet is open (as it need be if you are not connected to the spacecraft, not watertight and, even worse, it will quickly fill with water, so you need to have life vests or life rafts onboard, which adds extra weight, which could also be used to be even more certain that the capsule could not sink, completely forgoing the option of the astronauts leaving the capsule.

The suits were orange on the Space Shuttle because the Shuttle couldn't land on water. The procedure was for the crew to bail out using parachutes and a long pole to avoid being hit by the wings (it was doubtful that it would have worked, but the Shuttle was a death trap). The suits were designed to survive the airblast of bailing out at supersonic speed.

Capsules are much safer. They float. The procedure says that you stay inside. The new suit doesn't get to go in the water or to resist an airblast. If you get out, you die, orange or not.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Nibb31

[monophonic]

You know, @Nibb31, there's a lesson to remember here that we learned in 1912. Calling a thing unsinkable doesn't make it so. No matter how thorough the design, testing and manufacture is, manure happens. It would suck to have to tell someone their loved one perished because we did everything we could to bring them home safe, except give them bright orange clothes, so the rescue helicopter couldn't find them before they froze to death. But sure they'll understand, orange is just so passé, dark blue is much more stylish.

OTOH I'm sure Boeing will make the suit in any color the customer wants, be it pastel pink or manure brown or whatever. They just chose their corporate color of the day for the reveal.

[Kryten]

 

14 hours ago, monophonic said:

OTOH I'm sure Boeing will make the suit in any color the customer wants, be it pastel pink or manure brown or whatever. They just chose their corporate color of the day for the reveal.

Boeing is the customer, David Clark makes the suits.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Kryten

[PakledHostage]

18 minutes ago, Kryten said:

Boeing is the customer, David Clark makes the suits.

Pffft... Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

[magnemoe]

3 hours ago, monophonic said:

You know, @Nibb31, there's a lesson to remember here that we learned in 1912. Calling a thing unsinkable doesn't make it so. No matter how thorough the design, testing and manufacture is, manure happens. It would suck to have to tell someone their loved one perished because we did everything we could to bring them home safe, except give them bright orange clothes, so the rescue helicopter couldn't find them before they froze to death. But sure they'll understand, orange is just so passé, dark blue is much more stylish.

OTOH I'm sure Boeing will make the suit in any color the customer wants, be it pastel pink or manure brown or whatever. They just chose their corporate color of the day for the reveal.

A steel ship is not unsinkable, its just a matter of making enough holes, or simply get it underwater will flood it, that was the second issue with Titanic, the watertight compartments was not high enough so then the ship started tipping over the rest was flooded. 
An piece of wood is unsinkable, you can only sink it by weighting it down. 
The same way the capsule will float if empty and closed tanks and isolation who don't compress nor absorb water displaces enough water to keep it floating. 
Probably easier now than back with Gemini as we uses lot more lightweight stuff like foamed composites, you also want it to float with the crew compartment flooded else you can get issue extracting the astronauts.
Naturally this will be tested if needed. 

And I agree suit color can be changed as needed if somebody complains. That is NASA or astronauts, not random ksp players
 

[Frybert]

If you want to start discussing the Titanic, you are more than welcome to open a thread on it. This one is about space suits.