Perotis

reason to keep playing (career)

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2 hours ago, eddiew said:

Ehhh... hard question. I agree that stock system needs a better reason to leave Kerbin SoI. On the other hand as @suicidejunkie says, most of the contracts I do are "explore body" or "put satellite here" or "plant flag" - which are often what I'd want to do anyway, only now I get paid for it. Tourism contracts do usually suck though; be lucky if they offer enough money to cover the fuel required to add a crew capsule to a thing that is already going to their destination. Forget dedicated tourist trips because they aren't profitable. And I haven't accepted a part test contract since 1.2. Awful game balance around these, imho.

But the worst offender, to my mind, is the decline penalty. Most contracts aren't where you want them to be, which makes career feel stupid when you're ploughing through Duna contracts while your Jool window is open. If we could nominate a celestial body, and 50% of contracts would then relate to it - great! But we can't, so I turn off decline penalty, and just flick through until someone asks me to go where I want to go anyway. Doubt NASA or ESA do all the things they're asked for either - but they don't get slapped down for saying no to Sky TV's latest request.

Done right - i.e. with target nomination - career would have a nice budget management layer. As it stands, you get paid too much for doing stuff you don't want to do, so you have to tweak the options and mod it into submission. I'm enjoying my current setup whereby surface samples are worth 10x normal value, but science income is at 10%. Result - I really, really want to land kerbals everywhere I can. Which I enjoy doing :)  But its not the right choice if you like making large orbital colonies or ground bases or the like.

As ever - whatever you like to do in KSP, there's a game mode and a mod for it :)  

*Test Solid Kickback on suborbital flight*

Mission parameters,

Alt: 500-510km

Speed: 4000-4200 m/s

*Facepalm*

I agree, the test equipment contracts are BS. and tourist contracts need to have increased payout. 

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I think the contract system is either over engineered or underengineered; They should have kept ProcGen minimal with given layout or taken heuristic approach to generate it correctly. Not just blacklists and such...

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Personally, I play with lower science gains (50-80%, can't remember) and triple cash and rep gains. It made the career game seems much more fun, in a way where I have cash to manage, to buy facility upgrades and such, and I have the liberty of launching huge monster rockets if I want to. This way I can have fun while still having to take care of my money and science, but I can do more bigger, fun things more often instead of the stock grind.

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As others stated it is what you make of it :)

After playing a couple thousand hours stock, I did give career a change and went with GPP as that gives you a ksp 2.0 feeling as everything is different.
GPP is also less of a science farm to a point I ran into some serious funding that I had to grab 3 tourists contracts just to be able to upgrade my R&D to level 3.

Using USI Life support will put a short leash on "just go anywhere" as you have to get back home to restock, refuel and rotate the crew while all the long term stuff is still locked.
Using the Community Tech Tree will domper you`re "I went to the moon and unlocked everything" as with GPP, more and expensive nodes you have far less biomes to simply unlock the tree but enough to unlock long term HAB for inter planetary travels :D

I`ve been in my career for over a week and only unlocked R&D 3 today, mainly cause I don`t want to just spam contracts, have a little role play fun and try to have a more sustainable space program.
This is how my low tech early start looked by trying to build a more modular ship, I must admit that half my game time is almost spent to get the dang thing fueled after every mission, but that had me going to develope a Falcon 9 style rocket that I never botherd with but had to due to the budget (admitingly, it`s a blast to fly)

So really, grab some mods, set some personal goals and focus on just building an infra structure from the start to late game use and have fun :)

http://imgur.com/a/uRHfM

 

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It feels that, in my opinion, the contract system becomes much less important the moment I start leaving Kerbin SOI. World Firsts are enough to break even on damn near every inter-planetary mission. The only exception might be Kerbaled Eve trips that return from the surface. 

Disclaimer: 

Spoiler

I play with mods, but in a way that is nearly indestinguishable from what I do in stock. I use KIS/KAS to refuel surface vehicles, and tweakscale to change tank sizes-saving part count. I don't even use my own mod parts in career. I feel it's important to announce this, as the contract system is (presumably) intended to improve stock playstyles. 

Until the career/contract/science system is overhauled in a way that makes progression fluid (don't hold your breath), we have to learn to set our own goals.

Right now, the game seems to consider your first extra-terrestrial landing as an endgame. That's about the time an average player will be looking at the tech tree, thinking "Well, I guess I'll just unlock the 2.5m ore tank, then. I wonder what Astroneer looks like these days?" 

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I'm keeping it fresh by playing with BDB and doing a realish program, I have pioneer, explorer, ranger, and mercury programs under way, soon to be Gemini.

Once we get to the Apollo era I'll start freelancing it more and head to minmus then Duna and who knows.  Well Laythe obviously, but who knows?

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If science is what motivates you, accumulate enough science points to activate the strategy that changes 100% of science points to funds, and then just go and explore the entire system gathering all the science data you can. Many of the science definitions are quite entertaining, and the game definitely feels more complete once you've gone around everywhere and gotten all of the science points.

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Honestly, I'm pretty much in the same boat. Once I've unlocked the tree, I see little point in continuing that career. I usually start over at that point, looking for more challenging or efficient ways to do it.

Best,
-Slashy

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I usually play with science around 60 and money around 70, I use contract configurator to limit what contracts are available limiting them to exploration, science, flags, the things I like. You can add play your way to get funds from science returns as well. I also use custom barn kit to make all kerbal hires 100,000 and turn off rescues via CC,  I feel the game spams rescue contracts a bit too much, I do miss the surface rescues though.

One way I like to play is to basically make my space program a sight seeing venture, the goal being to take pics of kerbals next to anomalies.

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I've always played sandbox as an aside to sandbox.

Since it became part of the stock game, I've played three career mode games, each time building up through the tech tree to its completion, but it was always as an "ok... new major game version, I'd better play through this" attempt, rather than any commitment to playing in career mode.

For me, sandbox is what I reach for when a new version comes along, or I'm just getting the itch to go interplanetary again.

Whether in career or sandbox there is so much more than just maxing out the tech tree.

  • As has been said before "boots on all bodies" (and bringing them back to Kerbin... I'm looking at you Eve).
  • Build insane vehicles (huge stations that serve no real purpose other than looking cool and being fun to put together, insane rovers that have no place on Kerbin, let alone going to other worlds)
  • Challenges... whether you're number one on a leader board, or just having a crack at one for the fun of it, these can be challenging, educational and entertaining (take a look at the major ones like Jool 5)
  • Mods - new planets, new vehicles, new challenges
  • Self challenge - who cares what about some random contracts or challenges when you can set your own goals... you have a whole planetary system to play with, go nuts!

Any and all typos are the responsibility of WINE Industries and BEER Inc... it's 1:am on a Sunday morning after all :D

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I have the same consideration to go through. I got some good idea (also from comments here).

I'll start the second game in about a month (still some plans for the current game plus Rimworld game to finish) but I already started collecting ideas in the thread below

Edit: I might add that I enjoyed the career game - especially exploration, progress through science, building comsat network, orbital stations. I have found rovers quite useless but with BonVoyage mod they seem appaling again :).

Edited by Raphaello

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On 1/27/2017 at 1:47 PM, Temeter said:

Only if you're going for bland vanilla space missins. Everything silly and over the top can easily waste all your money.

I don't see that happening with anything useful/practical. I don't grind contracts once i am halfway with the techtree, i just choose what fits my bigger plan. I thought i am wasting money on a Eve lander/accent, it turns out the flag planting contract on eve alone paid out the lander and booster...twice over.

I went ahead and built a modular base on Laythe using a VTOL dropship, total price was 3 or more millions...yet i ended up with more funds than i started with just because of some random orbital station contracts i selected beforehand. Obviously it is not true sandbox since career funds are still finite, but at no point did i feel i was considering funds at all...there was always enough of the ever increasing number.

This was pure stock, so I know that part packs like B9's HX mothership parts can get real expensive real quick

On 1/27/2017 at 5:10 PM, regex said:

So, playing on normal mode, after I land on Duna the first time I never have to touch a contract again? All my buildings are upgraded and I can just build and do whatever I want? That's amazing!

If you are having a hard time on normal by the time you land on Duna, you might want to check out the tutorials first.:P Seriously, funds are in such huge quantities by that time that everything can be upgraded at once. That's why we don't play normal mode


My point is, career mode on normal is unbalanced in funds/science. You start out with a real fun challenge, then at some point the game just keeps giving you massive rewards for simple contracts...it devalues everything you did in the career mode

Edited by Blaarkies

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20 minutes ago, Blaarkies said:

If you are having a hard time on normal by the time you land on Duna, you might want to check out the tutorials first.:P

Alternatively you're not playing slot machine with the contract generator or stacking up missions that have nothing to do with how you want to play. Yeah, it does get pretty easy, but it's hardly enough to unlock all the buildings and literally not touch contracts ever again. I haven't played career mode on reduced funds in a long time because the contract system is just so ... ill thought out and that, to me, devalues everything I do in career mode far more than overly-generous rewards. Which is why I just play science mode or sandbox. Setting and completing my own goals is far more rewarding, and not having to find something tangentially related to anything I want to do in the game (i.e. direct a damn space program) in order to get a resource is gold.

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On 27/01/2017 at 5:47 AM, Perotis said:

I once I've maxed out my science in career mode, I find little motivation to keep playing.

And this is the exact reason why I got rid of science points entirely. Thank heavens for modders.

Tech unlocked by science makes no sense and makes career mode very hard to enjoy. You either finish the tree in no time or experience the eternal grind.

I'm through half of my tech tree, only one of my buildings is fully upgraded and I have at least one probe going to each body and all that thanks to the fact I minimized the science yield and bound tech directly to funds granted periodically based on how well my space exploration (World's Firsts = reputation) is going. It's that simple.

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Its easy to unlock the tech tree from the Mun and Minmus but what if you restricted yourself to just one fly by and one landing per body? That would force you to venture further to unlock science without just re running multiple missions in kerbin SOI.

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14 minutes ago, Leafbaron said:

Its easy to unlock the tech tree from the Mun and Minmus but what if you restricted yourself to just one fly by and one landing per body? That would force you to venture further to unlock science without just re running multiple missions in kerbin SOI.

That would require you setting your own goals though. Isn't that what contracts were supposed to do, set goals for you?

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3 minutes ago, regex said:

That would require you setting your own goals though. Isn't that what contracts were supposed to do, set goals for you?

Yeah sure no questions contracts could use some work, however, the thread is reasons to keep playing career. I think setting your own goals would qualify as a reason, especially if doing science is something you enjoy doing but find yourself filling the tech tree out too quickly. 

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26 minutes ago, Leafbaron said:

especially if doing science is something you enjoy doing but find yourself filling the tech tree out too quickly. 

 

That's what I find.

I confess I do dream of a day when there's a proper career mode. Sadly, I don't think that Squad has any interest at all in redoing it and I don't think it's something mods can achieve.

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8 minutes ago, Nathair said:

I confess I do dream of a day when there's a proper career mode. Sadly, I don't think that Squad has any interest at all in redoing it and I don't think it's something mods can achieve.

They can get pretty close to it though.

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39 minutes ago, Leafbaron said:

I think setting your own goals would qualify as a reason, especially if doing science is something you enjoy doing but find yourself filling the tech tree out too quickly. 

Well wouldn't contracts also be a reason to continue playing career? I mean, if you're not playing with the contracts then why not play science or sandbox mode? I thought that was the whole point of career mode, to play with funds as a limiter and use contracts to guide your progression, give you something to do?

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4 minutes ago, regex said:

Well wouldn't contracts also be a reason to continue playing career? I mean, if you're not playing with the contracts then why not play science or sandbox mode? I thought that was the whole point of career mode, to play with funds as a limiter and use contracts to guide your progression, give you something to do?

I think those a points are a matter personal playstyle. For me I play career because you start with nothing and you have to manage money wisely. But I only do contracts I want to do. If none of them suite my fancy then i just ignore them until something pops up. I have never used contracts as a guide to progression, some may have. and with the current contract system, Those players may be steered wayward. unless the pursue just the world first milestones contracts you can get, which do logically proceed with difficulty. "escape the atmosphere", "orbit kerbin" "fly by the mun" "orbit the mun" etc....

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4 minutes ago, Leafbaron said:

 pursue just the world first milestones contracts you can get, which do logically proceed with difficulty. "escape the atmosphere", "orbit kerbin" "fly by the mun" "orbit the mun" etc....

2

Eh, sort of. Rendezvous near Mun then dock two vessels near Mun then transfer crew near Mun then rendezvous near Minmus then dock two vessels near Minmus then transfer crew near Minmus...

There is a certain logic to them but it's painfully simplistic and rather grindy in spots.

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On 1/31/2017 at 6:06 PM, Nathair said:

I confess I do dream of a day when there's a proper career mode. Sadly, I don't think that Squad has any interest at all in redoing it and I don't think it's something mods can achieve.

They could achieve it quite easily if everyone agreed on what a proper career mode is in the first place...and there's the problem.  Everyone has different ideas about what they want and it's probably impossible to please everyone all at once.  There's certainly lots of room to improve on the current system, but you still might end up having to use mods or even just setting your own goals at some point.

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10 minutes ago, Hodari said:

Everyone has different ideas about what they want and it's probably impossible to please everyone all at once. 

And that's why career mode will never be good, Squad will try to make it playable to as many players as possible. E: Which is relevant to the OP: You, the player, need to make the game meaningful past the simple, obvious goals.

Edited by regex

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15 minutes ago, regex said:

And that's why career mode will never be good

You mean that's why career mode will never be perfect but it can certainly be made a lot better than it is. As the Duke of Albany put it "striving to better, oft we mar what's well". Currently I don't think anybody is satisfied with career, even those of us who only play in that mode aren't exactly thrilled by the way Squad more or less phoned it in.

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