SQUAD

KSP Weekly: Per aspera ad astra

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Wallygator    838
23 minutes ago, John FX said:

If you bought mouldy bread at the shop you should be able to address your concerns with any employee working in any department. The company is at fault so you are taking up your concerns with the company by talking to any employee.

I would use the company complaints procedure about any employee who basically told me they were not going to help when I told them their bread was mouldy.

@John FX drops mic.

(Love it!)

Edited by Wallygator

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razark    2830
4 hours ago, Wallygator said:

If we don't agree with squad, and therefore don't read the thread, then how would we continue to know if we agreed or disagree with squad?

This isn't about agreeing or disagreeing with Squad.  To the point, though, just don't read the thread.  As y'all are constantly saying, there's no information in the KSP Weekly in the first place.  Why bother to read it?

 

4 hours ago, Foxster said:

Now, where else have I seen this "believe what I believe or go away" attitude recently?

Again, this isn't about "Thou shalt not speak badly of Squad".  This is "Stop saying the same damn thing over and over and over and over and over again, in this (and each weeks') thread."  So less of a "no protesting" that you make it out to be, and more of a "the protest area is thataway".

 

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Foxster    2430
19 minutes ago, razark said:

"Stop saying the same damn thing over and over and over and over and over again, in this (and each weeks') thread." 

Nope. Like you, if I want to repeat myself I will. Or what will you do?

Edited by Foxster

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Terwin    468
15 minutes ago, razark said:

This isn't about agreeing or disagreeing with Squad.  To the point, though, just don't read the thread.  As y'all are constantly saying, there's no information in the KSP Weekly in the first place.  Why bother to read it?

 

Again, this isn't about "Thou shalt not speak badly of Squad".  This is "Stop saying the same damn thing over and over and over and over and over again, in this (and each weeks') thread."  So less of a "no protesting" that you make it out to be, and more of a "the protest area is thataway".

 

They are unhappy about Squad policies and pessimistic about KSP.

If they complain elsewhere they will have less of an audience and not be able to spread their pessimism.

If they cannot spread their pessimism to the rest of the community(making it a shadow of it's former self) then their pessimism might turn out to be inaccurate.

It is all part of a visceral reaction of wanting to punish those that make them unhappy, even if it is ultimately self-destructive.

The vocabulary and grammar might be better, but other than that, it is the exact same thing you see everywhere else on the internet.

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Red Iron Crown    12089

Please stop with the sniping at each other. Everyone is welcome to comment in the KSP Weekly threads, whether their feedback is positive or negative. I'd ask that people try to keep their critiques as constructive as possible, though.

Edit: I've removed a couple of responses, please see above, and also please don't post reaction videos/images.

Edited by Red Iron Crown

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Errol    226

Well I'm glad they finally stopped bothering with the "we've got a big secret we can't tell you about but will keep mentioning and teasing you with" shtick. That was getting really annoying.

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pandaman    1155

Squad seem to have a bit of a 'no win' situation with the weekly updates.

If there is no real fresh news to give they get panned for not telling us what's new.

 If they drop hints of future goodies they get panned for teasing.

 If they give details of these teased future goodies they get panned for not delivering on 'promises' if they don't happen or get delayed for any reason.

If they say nothing they get panned for saying nothing.

Whatever approach they take it will annoy someone, but at least by posting every week we know they are still there.   Even if the only news is 'not much change from last week' it's at least 'some' news, and it's better than leaving us wondering if they are still there, or them making promises that they may not be able to keep.

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DoctorDavinci    1215
2 minutes ago, pandaman said:

Squad seem to have a bit of a 'no win' situation with the weekly updates.

If there is no real fresh news to give they get panned for not telling us what's new.

 If they drop hints of future goodies they get panned for teasing.

 If they give details of these teased future goodies they get panned for not delivering on 'promises' if they don't happen or get delayed for any reason.

If they say nothing they get panned for saying nothing.

Murphy's Oil Soap Law :wink:

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technicalfool    1230
34 minutes ago, pandaman said:

Squad seem to have a bit of a 'no win' situation with the weekly updates.

If there is no real fresh news to give they get panned for not telling us what's new.

 If they drop hints of future goodies they get panned for teasing.

 If they give details of these teased future goodies they get panned for not delivering on 'promises' if they don't happen or get delayed for any reason.

If they say nothing they get panned for saying nothing.

Whatever approach they take it will annoy someone, but at least by posting every week we know they are still there.   Even if the only news is 'not much change from last week' it's at least 'some' news, and it's better than leaving us wondering if they are still there, or them making promises that they may not be able to keep.

All of this. Every single bit.

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Foxster    2430
42 minutes ago, technicalfool said:

All of this. Every single bit.

Well just say how it is then instead of the teasing nonsense. 

KSP is not some pre-alpha might-be-launched we-need-to-be-worried-about-rivals product anymore. You've released it. It's good. You have cornered the market. Good job. 

Now you can just tell it how it is. If it's a DLC that costs $20 for a bunch of stuff then that's super-cool and me and everyone else can throw money at you. If it's some more localisation guff then say so and we can all get over it.  

<REDACTED BY MODERATOR>

Edited by Frybert
Please don't skirt profanity filter.

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Lupi    146
3 hours ago, Foxster said:

Well just say how it is then instead of the teasing nonsense. 

KSP is not some pre-alpha might-be-launched we-need-to-be-worried-about-rivals product anymore. You've released it. It's good. You have cornered the market. Good job. 

Now you can just tell it how it is. If it's a DLC that cost $20 for a bunch of stuff then that's super-cool and me and everyone else can throw money at you. If it's some more localisation guff then say so and we can all get over it. 



What panda (and by quoting it, TF) are saying is that Squad is saying it how it is, and in this time where there's nothing to report except some localisation improvements, optimisations, and general bugfixing, that's exactly it: there's nothing much to report. There's no big secret to prematurely tease, and then disappoint everyone when the hype train overblows what it is.

Edited by Frybert
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Hotaru    1635

Part of the problem, I think, comes from the fact that Squad had been hinting at a big super-secret feature in the works and then quietly stopped hinting at it. The combination of the old tease/disappoint pattern and the new lack of transparency is a little frustrating: basically what we know is "1.3 might have a new feature, or it might not," which is pretty much what we'd know if Squad had said nothing at all. 

I absolutely agree that there's an aspect of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" to this, but on the other hand my recollection is there was a lot less hostility in responses to the old devnotes (which, while often disappointing, were at least informative) compared to the new KSP weekly. 

An unambiguous statment to the effect of "no big new features in next update, current projects are localization and 1.2 on consoles" would be helpful--as would a confirmation that there will be big new features in the next update. 

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Errol    226

More actual detail on the "optimizations and bug fixing" is what many are asking for, not anything complicated or university paper worthy, but a few details about the actual goings on in development. 

Which bugs were squashed? How about a tiny bit of history on the bug, maybe if known how long has it been in the game, what caused it, how was it fixed? Not all players will have encountered that bug, and they may be interested/learn something from the it. You know, high school paper level stuff. Even if it was literally in who, what, where, when, why format, that would be preferable to hollow fluff. A lot of this stuff is available on the buck tracker, and could be referenced by the person writing the dev notes, with added explanations for technical things. 

I do remember in the past the developers responding to requests of more detail in dev notes with a huge dev note with more technical jargon in it then the average citizen is liable to understand. That's an example of an over reaction, we aren't asking for miracles or promises that you can't keep. 

It feels very much like ever since the shift away from developer written dev notes to a PR person written dev notes that they are now being written by a journalist, ie, someone who is not fully invested in each story they do because they have to be invested in so many stories, in such short periods of time. Details get mistranslated, facts get misrepresented, things are explained in ways that don't make sense, or are simply omitted. 

When the devs themselves wrote the dev notes, they knew what they were up to that week, and are invested in enough to actually know what is going on with it. 

Surely there must be a happy middle ground somewhere. I realize that there are folks out there that are simply going to feel antagonized regardless of what is done, and will complain no matter what, but why give them more ammunition? I'm talking, again, about the secret plans that were never revealed. Didn't they learn there lesson with the porkjet rocket parts debacle? Once they stopped dancing around the bush and putting off the announcement and admitted that the plans have been shelved for now people left them alone about it. I mean sure, people still complain that the rocket parts need to have an art pass for sure, lets face it, those models are dated. But people dropped it about the porkjet parts, as far as I can tell, once squad was honest about them. 

Why not just tell us what the thing is? 

"Sure, we were working on kerbal reproduction, but realized we bit off more then we could chew this time and shelved it for now. Sorry."

Or what ever the super secret thing is. 

Anyway, /rant.

Edited by Errol

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Red Shirt    654
28 minutes ago, Errol said:

More actual detail on the "optimizations and bug fixing" is what many are asking for, not anything complicated

Errol, I agree with everything you've written. I too would like more information on  bugs and otherwise without being overwhelmed with coding and other stuff I wouldn't understand. Well stated. Here's hoping for that happy middle ground. 

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Vanamonde    6254

Squad: "We're going to do this." 
Replies: "Don't do that. It's stupid." 
Squad: "We did that." 
Replies: "You shouldn't have done that. It's terrible." 
Squad: "Here's what we're doing." 
Replies: "You should do the other thing instead. Everything you do sucks. You ripped us off, you lazy jerks." 
Squad: [Mournful silence.] 
Replies: "Why don't you tell us what you're doing?" 

Not speaking as a moderator. Just saying. 

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HoloYolo    1263
9 minutes ago, Vanamonde said:

Squad: "We're going to do this." 
Replies: "Don't do that. It's stupid." 
Squad: "We did that." 
Replies: "You shouldn't have done that. It's terrible." 
Squad: "Here's what we're doing." 
Replies: "You should do the other thing instead. Everything you do sucks. You ripped us off, you lazy jerks." 
Squad: [Mournful silence.] 
Replies: "Why don't you tell us what you're doing?" 

Not speaking as a moderator. Just saying. 

Whatever appeals to the majority I guess.

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9 minutes ago, Vanamonde said:

Replies: "You should do the other thing instead. Everything you do sucks. You ripped us off, you lazy jerks." 

This right here is the sentiment that baffles me the most. 

People paid for a game. That game was delivered. End of story. Everything after that is a bonus, that we get for free. The only response should be 'thank you.' 

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HoloYolo    1263
Just now, FullMetalMachinist said:

This right here is the sentiment that baffles me the most. 

People paid for a game. That game was delivered. End of story. Everything after that is a bonus, that we get for free. The only response should be 'thank you.' 

So just because we get free content every so often we should let Squad be silent and not tell us anything? What if they release a virus with the newest update? Since it's free we should just say "thank you" because it was free. I mean you can't just say "thank you" to everything. It may be polite but it's not telling anyone what's wrong with something or how us consumers feel.

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Majorjim!    5971
24 minutes ago, Vanamonde said:

 Squad: "We're going to do this." 
Replies: "Don't do that. It's stupid." 
Squad: "We did that." 
Replies: "You shouldn't have done that. It's terrible." 
Squad: "Here's what we're doing." 
Replies: "You should do the other thing instead. Everything you do sucks. You ripped us off, you lazy jerks." 
Squad: [Mournful silence.] 
Replies: "Why don't you tell us what you're doing?" 

Not speaking as a moderator. Just saying. 

A slight over-reaction I think. Squad are big and ugly enough to make their own minds up and ignore the 'noise'. The reaction to what they do is overwhelmingly positive anyway. 

 

 

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Lupi    146
3 minutes ago, Majorjim! said:

A slight over-reaction I think. Squad are big and ugly enough to make their own minds up and ignore the 'noise'. The reaction to what they do is overwhelmingly positive anyway. 

 

 

It's more a depiction of what seems to go on every time there's a devnote/ksp weekly/etc sort of thing posted, or whenever the format is changed or there isn't enough content to allure the masses.

 

Squad try to respond and keep in touch with things, but every time they change the format the backlash is massive. 

Edited by Lupi

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The_Rocketeer    1346
1 minute ago, Majorjim! said:

A slight over-reaction I think. Squad are big and ugly enough to make their own minds up and ignore the 'noise'. The reaction to what they do is overwhelmingly positive anyway.

I don't think Vanamonde was commenting on the majority of reactions, but on the reactions of some repeat responders to the KSP Weekly thread. Check a few back-issues and you'll see what he's getting at.

It's a bit sad really. Here we are given a weekly newsletter covering all things KSP, and all people can do is moan about how it doesn't say anything, by which I think they mean "it doesn't say what I, in my total lack of perspective, want to hear".

Personally I'd rather have the pulse of 'business at usual' reported every week than be left with the impression that KSP was just slowly bleeding out.

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Majorjim!    5971

Yeah I saw. I agree with some of them. :D

 

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The_Rocketeer    1346
8 minutes ago, Majorjim! said:

Yeah I saw. I agree with some of them. :D

 

Well, Squad may just be a big and ugly faceless company, but doubtless their employee-ambassadors to the community are just ordinary people who take an absolute beating every week from people who don't like the posts that they've put time and effort into producing. If the endless negativity bothers other community members and moderators, I can only guess at how it must feel when it's in direct response to your own work.

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Majorjim!    5971
3 minutes ago, The_Rocketeer said:

Well, Squad may just be a big and ugly faceless company, but doubtless their employee-ambassadors to the community are just ordinary people who take an absolute beating every week from people who don't like the posts that they've put time and effort into producing. If the endless negativity bothers other community members and moderators, I can only guess at how it must feel when it's in direct response to your own work.

I don't think anyone is bashing the coding work here just the lack of info in the ksp weekly threads. 

 Which is a fair point given the amount of things mentioned/teased. I feel adding to this discussion would be reductive so I will end by saying I look forward to the next KSP update and the teased new feature/thing/whatever. 

:)

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Lupi    146
1 minute ago, Majorjim! said:

I don't think anyone is bashing the coding work here just the lack of info in the ksp weekly threads. 

 Which is a fair point given the amount of things mentioned/teased. I feel adding to this discussion would be reductive so I will end by saying I look forward to the next KSP update and the teased new feature/thing/whatever. 

:)

He wasn't talking about the coders, he was talking about Uomo, Badie, and the new PR manager. The people who write these.

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