Theysen

[1.6.1] Realism Overhaul v12.7.2 [17 July 2019]

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23 hours ago, raidernick said:

EDIT: On a side note we will not be supporting the DLC content at all. I don't have it, nobody on the team has it as far as I'm aware and all of the parts it adds are copies of already existing mods with much higher fidelity models. Nobody wants to buy the DLC and then do the work to add support for parts they won't be using and I don't want to do that either. That won't stop us from adding support if someone who DOES have the parts and wants to make PR for them though submits something. Just be aware that if that happens that person will be expected to keep the files up to date and in working order or they will be removed in future releases if they are causing problems.

Doing some missions with RO would be pretty nice; I had an idea a while back to make a Columbia rescue mission, but designing space shuttles that look and fly even sort of realistically in stock is absolutely painful.

Really, the DLC engines and such are no great loss (aside of the Cheetah and Mastodon, they're really ugly, as they carry that uncanny quality of KSP's painted-terracotta-like textures, just in higher resolution and with grey-colored bits protruding everywhere), but certain features are great, and so are engine plates (is there a mod that adds these to the base game?)

 

I do think little of value is lost skipping 1.5.1. The only change that really matters is deployables being stronger while undeployed (no more shattering solar panels just because the fairing brushed them). Most of the changes were visual updates (peanuts if you're running RO) and a few of the more notably shiny ones didn't even shine outside the VAB until 1.6! That said, with how little the changes touched actual mechanics, it's worrying that mods have taken this long to update, as it suggests a serious lack of maintenance.

Edited by Nebbie

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Thanks for all the efforts of updating the mods. RO makes for a very different experience in KSP.

 

I think the mods are not updated so quickly anymore because of mod fatigue. The current updating cycle of the game is not very mod friendly . Releasing 2-3-4 "new" versions of the game with minimal improvements adds a lot of work and stress to the mod community trying to keep up with the updates. For KSP being a very heavy mod dependent game (mods account for a huge chunk of it's value) , these frequent updates are not very wise indeed. In real terms we could have skipped from 1.2 to 1.6 in one big realese, but that's supposedly not good marketing.

 

So in the current environment the modders suffer as they try to keep up everything up-to-date, that's why I'm even more gratefull for those people that still make the effort.

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On 12/23/2018 at 5:01 AM, raidernick said:

Ok quick update, 1.5.x is dead in the water in terms of releases. We will NOT be releasing any of the RO related mods for that if they haven't been done already. We have a current open PR for 1.4.5 which will be releasing soon. It is currently waiting on 3 mod updates. Two of those mods will be done fairly quickly, the third is being debated what to do with it right now. This should all hopefully be wrapped up soon in regards to that release.

For 1.6.x, we will be moving on to that immediately after 1.4.5. I will personally update all of the RO related mods that I have access to for 1.6.x and I'll push the mod authors of the other mods to get their stuff updated for it as well. This should ensure only the REQUIRED mods as set in this thread or CKAN are updated. I cannot and will not guarantee all of the "recommended" or "suggested" mods are updated.  There are far too many to deal with and too many mod authors who have vanished or have changed hands.

 

EDIT: On a side note we will not be supporting the DLC content at all. I don't have it, nobody on the team has it as far as I'm aware and all of the parts it adds are copies of already existing mods with much higher fidelity models. Nobody wants to buy the DLC and then do the work to add support for parts they won't be using and I don't want to do that either. That won't stop us from adding support if someone who DOES have the parts and wants to make PR for them though submits something. Just be aware that if that happens that person will be expected to keep the files up to date and in working order or they will be removed in future releases if they are causing problems.

I do have the expansion and as I will be on vacation next week I will work on adding configs for the engines and capsules. I feel that the engines look decent enough to use for people wanting to reduce the number of mods installed and I am willing to keep these updated.

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I support this decision, it really does feel like low quality version of parts that are already avaiable(for years!!) with MUCH better models.

Only thing that would ever convince me to buy the dlc is if it was required by RO. If take2 realized the full potencial they would try to make modders job easier, not just copy them.

 

edit - And ofcourse HUGE respect to you guys! I got 500+/- hours from vanilla ksp, the next 1500+ is spent in RO, and i still have so many things to do!

Edited by species

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1 minute ago, species said:

 If take2 realized the full potencial they would try to make modders job easier, not just copy them.

The developers have consistently worked with us in the past and at present and no doubt in the future to make our jobs easier.

Modular Flight Integrator wouldn't have been possible if they hadn't gone out of their way to ensure that things we needed were public and able to be overridden in the FlightIntegrator class.

Just for one example.

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1 minute ago, Starwaster said:

Just for one example.

Oh, i did NOT know that :O Thanx! 

From the outsider POV it seems theyre releasing patch after patch with little to no changes(new suits, paraglider, some parts?!) and every one of em breaks all the mods.

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41 minutes ago, species said:

Oh, i did NOT know that :O Thanx! 

From the outsider POV it seems theyre releasing patch after patch with little to no changes(new suits, paraglider, some parts?!) and every one of em breaks all the mods.

On the subject of broken mods, that largely depends on how dependent the mod is on KSP code.

For instance, we are long past the point where something that is purely a parts pack is going to get broken by a KSP update as long as it is not itself dependent on plugins (*.dll) which could be broken by an update.

The less reliant a plugin is on KSP code (has to access some KSP class, field or property) that might change then the less likely it is to be broken.

Deadly Reentry for example is mostly immune to such breakakge. The last time that happened was when the old particle FX system was deprecated and that was something that was warned about for over a year.

Some plugins however specifically have code that checks for KSP version changes and Unity version changes and will deliberately disable themselves if that happens. That is purely dependent on the detected versions and doesn't actually have anything to do with whether or not there were KSP changes that could have broken the plugin. Sometimes the compatibility checker just issues a warning. How it behaves is entirely up to the individual modder. This last bit is important because it means that a lot of mods out there are not actually broken by KSP updates but instead choose to disable themselves until the modder has time to evaluate the situation  and decide what needs to happen to make the mod compatible. Sometimes it's as simple as updating the Compatibility Checker (there is actually common checker that we use) with the new versioning number and recompiling. 

Finally there are plugins which depend on certain KSP code such as accessing celestial body code or manipulating resources and those can and have been broken when the underlying KSP code is overhauled. (a life support mod for instance can be easily broken if the resource code is rewritten leaving the old methods invalid even if 99% of the life support mod uses its own code for logic)

It's a complex situation and KSP's developers just aren't always responsible for the impact an update has on the modding scene. (when taken on a case by case basis - though there was a situation a few major updates back where every single mod plugin could break KSP with hard exceptions and crashing just by virtue of not having been recompiled for the new version - that situation seems to have been corrected in the recent KSP updates)

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Posted (edited)

i'm gonna play to RSS/RO in 1.4.5 but we dont have RO for this version, on github exists "hold for release" on RO 12.5 for KSP 1.4.5 in pull requests section

I really waiting RO on 1.4.5 but when u going to release it?

thank for ur answer

P.S. what u know 'bout RSSVE update for 1.4.5?

Edited by astronaut2019

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I am sincerely looking forward to the next RO/RSS update. Take your time and do it at your own collective pace.

Does anyone remember the RSS extended mod?  which added a plethora of additional solar bodies?  Is anyone owning that these days?  I've searched but found nothing - which could surely be due to my waining technological skills. Just curious.

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8 hours ago, astronaut2019 said:

P.S. what u know 'bout RSSVE update for 1.4.5?

The latest RSSVE update seems to function properly on 1.6, surprisingly. Nonetheless it is not officially supported for the version, but there's no risk of using it anyway.

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On 1/1/2019 at 6:11 AM, astronaut2019 said:

I really waiting RO on 1.4.5 but when u going to release it?

When Real Fuels is updated, that's the last thing needed for RO to be released.

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, raidernick said:

When Real Fuels is updated, that's the last thing needed for RO to be released.

On the RF front, here is what is holding that up right now.

Analytical thermal issues have been mostly resolved for awhile now (since MLI was implemented) but the solution also introduced another analytic issue where internal temperature is too slow to change. Including when trying to cool down overheated tanks in analytic mode. And AFAIK I'm the only active RF developer that really understands what happens in analytic mode that affects cryo tanks and why.

So I'm still trying to work that out right now...

Edit: So, there's a big gap between being where you know what's happening during analytic and  being where you  know what you need to do to manipulate the system into doing what you need it to do. I think I'm a good bit closer to that point now. 

Edited by Starwaster

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ok now I want RO  in 1.6 because they fixed the stutter in vab bug.

But i know I will probably have to wait a long time.... :(

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6 hours ago, Agustin said:

ok now I want RO  in 1.6 because they fixed the stutter in vab bug.

But i know I will probably have to wait a long time.... :(

There is also no stutter in 1.3.1 :)

 

 

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I am so happy to see continued development on RO and RF. Combined with RSS this is the only way to play KSP for me. Each version bump deserves a generous donation, it is like getting a new game.

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6 hours ago, Theysen said:

There is also no stutter in 1.3.1 :)

 

 

oh, tell that in the RP1 discord. Everyone says there is stutter. everywhere I read about it and everybody the game lags in vab when building large vessels and placing parts. It DOES stutter, and I know it lol. But They say it was fixed in 1.6

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I have the engines completed for RO. Working on the plume configs. Should have that finished for tomorrow.  I also have started the new Gemini equivalent pod. I have it sized to be 3m at the bottom, top is sized that same as the Mercury pod so the RCS pack is usable. I see that the stock Mercury pod had some RCS thrusters added, shall I also add to the stock Gemini? Also if I can get some guidance for the amount of electric charge, food, water and oxygen should be pre-added? I was thinking that ~7 days should be about right.

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16 hours ago, Agustin said:

oh, tell that in the RP1 discord. Everyone says there is stutter. everywhere I read about it and everybody the game lags in vab when building large vessels and placing parts. It DOES stutter, and I know it lol. But They say it was fixed in 1.6

Don't tell me that you are comparing a 80+ modded KSP installation with a stock one...

Anyway, RSS/RO/RP for KSP 1.4+ is a reality but, as always, you have to be patient! Also, if you want, you can help since this is a community project.

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45 minutes ago, Phineas Freak said:

Don't tell me that you are comparing a 80+ modded KSP installation with a stock one...

Anyway, RSS/RO/RP for KSP 1.4+ is a reality but, as always, you have to be patient! Also, if you want, you can help since this is a community project.

How may I help?

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3 hours ago, Phineas Freak said:

Don't tell me that you are comparing a 80+ modded KSP installation with a stock one...

Anyway, RSS/RO/RP for KSP 1.4+ is a reality but, as always, you have to be patient! Also, if you want, you can help since this is a community project.

I am not comparing,. I just read all over the place this was fixed in 1.6 period.

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18 minutes ago, Agustin said:

I am not comparing,. I just read all over the place this was fixed in 1.6 period.

Was it also tested with the mods we use in RO/RP-1 though like TestFlight, RealFuels and the likes? It may very well be that the culprit lies in the in a mod interaction there instead of the pure base game. 

But reading won’t help us until we can actually test it , so every help is welcome :)

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Posted (edited)

Real fuels yes, but I unninstalled Test FLight because I think it was adding lag in VAB also....
I still have lag so....
I have been trying to remove different mods but it seems that it allways lag when the ship is larger than 20 parts. Placing parts in VAB freezes the game for a second, EVERY TIME, it doesn't on flight or in other scenario.

Oh, I understand you said that we should try RP-1 in 1.6 to see if it was fixed. And yes, you are right, BUT, I saw a video of a youtuber talking about how he allways had that problem with large ships and tested the same vessel in 1.6 and it worked fluently, without any lag where he allways would have it before with the SAME craft. So a memory savings have been already adressed from the squad part and that may very well help when playing on RP-1 finally.

Edited by Agustin

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1 hour ago, Agustin said:

Real fuels yes, but I unninstalled Test FLight because I think it was adding lag in VAB also....
I still have lag so....
I have been trying to remove different mods but it seems that it allways lag when the ship is larger than 20 parts. Placing parts in VAB freezes the game for a second, EVERY TIME, it doesn't on flight or in other scenario.

Oh, I understand you said that we should try RP-1 in 1.6 to see if it was fixed. And yes, you are right, BUT, I saw a video of a youtuber talking about how he allways had that problem with large ships and tested the same vessel in 1.6 and it worked fluently, without any lag where he allways would have it before with the SAME craft. So a memory savings have been already adressed from the squad part and that may very well help when playing on RP-1 finally.

Did your 'youtuber' have all of the same mods he had before with his entire ships folder and all his subassemblies?

Just what was his testing methodology? Because you can't just take a craft you experienced issues with in one version and import it by itself. Is that what he did or did he actually recreate his old setup for his testing environment?

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Look, I don't really know. I just saw in different sites this information, and i've been having this lag a lot so I am just dreaming it got fixed.

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