Kurld

[1.3] PEBKAC Saturn parts

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This add-on is a set of parts I created because I wanted to learn some things about creating engines for KSP. It's main feature is a model of the Rocketdyne F1 rocket engine used on the Saturn V. 

After I built the engines, I wanted a five-way adapter to mount them under. So I built a model of the thrust structure from the Saturn V S-IC. This includes aerodynamic engine fairings and integrated retro-rockets to help separate the stage from the rest of your rocket. I probably should have included a decoupler, but I didn't.  When you mount the F1 engines, the non-gimbaling version goes in the center.

After that, I noticed the thrust structure does not really line up all that well with the stock 2.5m fuel tanks. So I took leave of my senses and modeled the entire S-IC stage. This part is ridiculously over-detailed, and uses a boat-load of texture memory.  Again, there are the two sizes available.

Finally, what good is a rocket without the right fins to really set it off? So, I also modeled the proper fins from the Saturn V. Then I decided I wanted the markings to look correct. The included plugin will detect what node on the S-IC or thrust structure that you are sticking the fine onto, and draw the appropriate marking.

Here's some screenshots: http://imgur.com/a/3sm97 (not recent)

Here is the download on Spacedock: http://spacedock.info/mod/1184/PEBKAC Saturn V Parts  (compatible with KSP 1.3).

Caveats: The models were built to real-life scale and then scaled down to "Kebal size" of 0.64. So the S-1C tankage is roughly 6.375 meters across. The configs are all pretty much a first-draft and may or may not be reasonable or realistic. Since probably nobody has 6.375m parts, I also included "mini" versions of the parts that should fit with other 2.5m parts.

I'm still wondering about swapping out meshes. For instance, I have two separate F1 parts, one which gimbals and another that doesn't. Instead of having two variants in the parts bin, it would be great to be able to right click the part, and choose whether or not the engine should gimbal and thus have it load the correct mesh based on that setting. There is still some more detail I could build into the S-IC part. For instance the launch hold-downs are not correct and there are no umbilical panels, etc at the bottom. The UV mapping and texturing for the S-1C badly needs a second pass to greatly reduce its memory footprint and to clean up a few things.

I don't plan to do any of this any time soon, if ever. But I may go crazy again, who knows.

Enjoy!

Edited by Kurld
new release

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19 minutes ago, Kurld said:

I'm still wondering about a few things, mainly about swapping out textures and meshes. For instance, I have two separate F1 parts, one which gimbals and another that doesn't. It would be great to be able to right click the part, and choose whether or not the engine should gimbal and thus have it load the correct mesh. Another thing I'd like to do is be able to swap out the textures for the fins. The real-life Saturn V fins and markings showing Fin A, B, C, and D. It would be cool to right click on a fin and tell it which marking to show.

There should be code floating around for texture and mesh switching. Fins are usually symmetry attached, so changing something on one would change them all. Perhaps a little part module could determine each fins orientation on attach and load the appropriate texture. Beware that one of the fins will have it's texture mirrored, some sort of weird KSP bug.

Looks good. Good luck!

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Dank. You know where to find me if you ever have questions, both on the details of the Saturn and anything related to the modeling/texturing side. :)

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2 minutes ago, VenomousRequiem said:

Finally I can use a Saturn V without having to install that silly BDB mod...

And you posted this comment right after the creator of BDB has posted his comment, showing interest in helping this modder...

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Just now, MK3424 said:

And you posted this comment right after the creator of BDB has posted his comment, showing interest in helping this modder...

I, a dev of BDB, posted a comment right after the creator of BDB, who posted right after the OTHER dev of BDB, trash talking BDB

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LOL, you guys are killing me.

In case anybody else is wanting or trying to read anything into anything... please stop. The BDB crew have all been excellent towards me, so no worries, OK?

 

5 hours ago, Jso said:

Fins are usually symmetry attached, so changing something on one would change them all. Perhaps a little part module could determine each fins orientation on attach and load the appropriate texture. Beware that one of the fins will have it's texture mirrored, some sort of weird KSP bug.

Yeah, this is kind of what I am wondering about. I've looked at source for several different mods that switch textures and it seems straightforward enough. But the symmetry is a big wrinkle. I haven't really looked at the mesh switching much.

At some point I need to start actually playing this game again... It's been several versions now where I haven't gotten past Minmus.

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3 hours ago, VenomousRequiem said:

I, a dev of BDB, posted a comment right after the creator of BDB, who posted right after the OTHER dev of BDB, trash talking BDB

lol.... such meta...

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17 hours ago, Kurld said:

Yeah, this is kind of what I am wondering about. I've looked at source for several different mods that switch textures and it seems straightforward enough. But the symmetry is a big wrinkle. I haven't really looked at the mesh switching much.

At some point I need to start actually playing this game again... It's been several versions now where I haven't gotten past Minmus.

I think... the easiest way, for you, would be to have texture switching on the fins, don't attach them with symmetry, and then you can individually change the textures... which sucks. But perhaps a worthwhile technical solution? Also, since you're working on the S-1C, don't forget the retros. :) They're designed to blast straight through the top of the engine 'lobes'.

coYc38i.jpg

Did you ever get to use your LES in a full Apollo mission? :)

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Yeah, I hate having to mount them one at a time, but that would do it. I'm wondering if there is some kind of tomfoolery I could do with a plugin where it looks at the named node the fin is attached to and sets the texture appropriately.

The fairings do have retro rockets underneath. I actually went to the trouble of modeling them and if you peek up under the fairings you can see them in there.

Playing a full BDB Apollo mission is on my list of things to do once my modeling fever ever breaks...

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perhaps instead of entire wings to attach just make the fin itself part of the engine, and a control surface part to attach to the lower edge of the fin instead?

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20 hours ago, TK421d said:

perhaps instead of entire wings to attach just make the fin itself part of the engine, and a control surface part to attach to the lower edge of the fin instead?

That's an interesting idea and would solve the problem. My understanding is that, in real life, the bottom edge was not an actual control surface, even though it kind of looks like one.

I've been playing with the BDB parts this past week and seriously questioning why I've spent so much time repeating something they have already done so well. I did learn a lot about Blender though.

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48 minutes ago, Kurld said:

That's an interesting idea and would solve the problem. My understanding is that, in real life, the bottom edge was not an actual control surface, even though it kind of looks like one.

I've been playing with the BDB parts this past week and seriously questioning why I've spent so much time repeating something they have already done so well. I did learn a lot about Blender though.

They did not have control surfaces. They actually found out they provided a negligible amount of drag (drag being good for this, pulls the CoL down making the rocket more stable) but it was too late to be worth deleting them. They handwaved it by saying the marginal extra stability would improve safety in an abort.

I can't remember if they were also used for hold down clamps like S1B.

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5 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

I can't remember if they were also used for hold down clamps like S1B.

Nothing I've seen indicates that, all the hold-downs, etc. were in the thrust structure.

I did finally fly to the Mun today:

slxFtni.png

 

 

 

For some reason it won't let me add any more screenshots.

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I've got some plugin code working that allows me to add the fins in 4x symmetry and have it automatically show the correct fin marking. I need to do some cleanup but it seems to be pretty solid. I learned a lot by looking at the code from @allista's SimpleTextureSwitcher about how to set textures dynamically. I had to revisit my model in Blender to create objects/materials for the fin markings and then a small amount of code in OnEditorAttach() callback to detect which node the fin was attaching to and to set the correct texture.

If anybody wants to see the code, etc. just reply here or PM me.

 

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I uploaded a version to Space Dock that is compatible with 1.3.  It now includes the plugin (and it's source code) for automatically setting the correct decals on the Saturn V fins.

Cheers!

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@Kurld Can I please use your plugin in my mod, which needs to put a KASA logo on one of the SDHI protective panels, but they can only be attached in 3x symmetry, not individually.

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Go for it!

Note: I decided I needed to update the license information included with the package. Most of the code for that plugin was copied/derived from code originally written by @allista as part of his AT_Utils code for his excellent set of mods. So, I've replaced the package on Space Dock with a new one containing the following license:

The MIT License (MIT)

Copyright (c) 2016 Allis Tauri

Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy
of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal
in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights
to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell
copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is
furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:

The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all
copies or substantial portions of the Software.

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR
IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY,
FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE
AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER
LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM,
OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE
SOFTWARE.

 

The models and textures for the Saturn V parts are all still covered by my basic request of "If you re-use these let me know and give me credit somehow."  Not that anybody would, I think. If you want Saturn parts (and more!), look no further than the excellent mod put together by BDB.

Cheers!

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