SQUAD

KSP Weekly: We’re turning into polyglots!

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Alshain    4730
13 hours ago, Flashblade said:

Let's just hope that he was part of the team that made the PC version playable. I got it last year and thankfully by that time the game worked without a hitch, for me at least.

I took the recall refund option and never looked back.  I still haven't played it.

7 hours ago, Hotaru said:

So you'd happily buy a game in a language you don't understand? Or learn a new language just so you can play it? (I don't know, maybe you would, but I wouldn't.)

Honestly I don't know whether we're talking about a hundred new sales, a thousand, or a million, but I think it's safe to say plenty of people will be interested in playing KSP in their own languages who wouldn't have been interested otherwise. And even if it's not, I think making the game more enjoyable and accessible for the non-(native)-English speakers who already own it would be worth the effort. Even if it means the rest of us have to wait slightly longer to get prettier rocket parts and clouds on Kerbin.

Frankly, if you're just determined to be annoyed with Squad I can't help you. Personally I prefer not to be annoyed with them if possible, even when I disagree with their decisions.

Except English is the most used worldwide.  Unlike the US, most countries define national languages, and English is usually one of them.  It may open up some sales, but I doubt it will be substantial.

Nevertheless, I support having multiple localization whether it increases sales or not.  It's not so much about sales as it is about making it most user friendly.  Even those countries that speak English as a second national language, it still may be more comfortable not to.

Edited by Alshain

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klgraham1013    2495
7 minutes ago, Alshain said:

Except English is the most used worldwide.  Unlike the US, most countries define national languages, and English is usually one of them.  It may open up some sales, but I doubt it will be substantial.

 

As someone who used to date someone from one of those countries.  I can say that just because a country teaches their citizens English, it doesn't mean those citizens are actually fluent in it.  ...and before anyone asks, her English was impeccable, but she was also a Ph.D.

That's just my experience, though.

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tack50    9
4 hours ago, scottadges said:

I think this logic makes sense, from a business perspective, if they want to drive more sales, hire more developers, improve features, then they can open up new markets and more users.

I play on Xbox (don't have a PC) so I don't have direct experience with Steam, but I assume it segments by language? i.e. you can buy games for your specific language?

Not an Xbox player for KSP especifically, but the way it normally works is that the language of your console is the one the game will be displayed in (if unavailable, it defaults to English). In theory it should automatically appear in your language automatically (assuming it will get a localization; many times developers just stick with what is sometimes called PAL-5: Spanish, German, French, English and Italian, though this is increasingly rare)

The closest thing to language region locking is that when games have a dub in Spanish, there might be 2 different dubs, one for Latin America and one for Spain. You only get the one for your region. In fact, if there's only one available, and it's for the other region, it's very likely the publisher just sticks to subtitles for your region instead of a full dub anyways! (Latin American dubs are usually badly received in Spain and vice versa)

That's actually a lot more relevant for movies and TV shows, but it can happen with games.

Since KSP does not have voice acting though, this should not be an issue

1 hour ago, Alshain said:

I took the recall refund option and never looked back.  I still haven't played it.

Except English is the most used worldwide.  Unlike the US, most countries define national languages, and English is usually one of them.  It may open up some sales, but I doubt it will be substantial.

Nevertheless, I support having multiple localization whether it increases sales or not.  It's not so much about sales as it is about making it most user friendly.  Even those countries that speak English as a second national language, it still may be more comfortable not to.

Actually, there are less native English speakers than Spanish ones. And that's just Spanish, add French, German, Italian, Portuguese, etc as well and you end up with a lot more than English. As for fluency, I think you are overestimating the amount of non native speakers that are willing to play a game in English (I am one actually, but I'm the exception, not the norm), here's a map for Europe: 

conversation-english-eurobarometer.jpg

For what is known as PAL-5 (the usual 5 translations: English, Spanish, French, German, Italian), it ranges from Germany's 56% to Spain's 22%. And that's a conversation and self-reported, the actual numbers might be even lower. Also it's Europe; other places probably have lower numbers as well.

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Alshain    4730
24 minutes ago, tack50 said:

Not an Xbox player for KSP especifically, but the way it normally works is that the language of your console is the one the game will be displayed in (if unavailable, it defaults to English). In theory it should automatically appear in your language automatically (assuming it will get a localization; many times developers just stick with what is sometimes called PAL-5: Spanish, German, French, English and Italian, though this is increasingly rare)

The closest thing to language region locking is that when games have a dub in Spanish, there might be 2 different dubs, one for Latin America and one for Spain. You only get the one for your region. In fact, if there's only one available, and it's for the other region, it's very likely the publisher just sticks to subtitles for your region instead of a full dub anyways! (Latin American dubs are usually badly received in Spain and vice versa)

That's actually a lot more relevant for movies and TV shows, but it can happen with games.

Since KSP does not have voice acting though, this should not be an issue

Actually, there are less native English speakers than Spanish ones. And that's just Spanish, add French, German, Italian, Portuguese, etc as well and you end up with a lot more than English. As for fluency, I think you are overestimating the amount of non native speakers that are willing to play a game in English (I am one actually, but I'm the exception, not the norm), here's a map for Europe:

For what is known as PAL-5 (the usual 5 translations: English, Spanish, French, German, Italian), it ranges from Germany's 56% to Spain's 22%. And that's a conversation and self-reported, the actual numbers might be even lower. Also it's Europe; other places probably have lower numbers as well.

Your numbers are all based on "first language speakers".  In which case Chinese wins, but that assumes a single person can only be accounted in one language category.  By comparison, there are ~30 countries where Chinese is spoken, ~40 where Spanish is spoken, and ~110 where English is spoken.  Then you have to weed out of that how many would likely have people to play this game.  In the end, the bulk of the likely player base speaks English.  I will admit (I actually already did), that not ALL of them fit into that category, but it is still most of them.  As such, localization is not likely to attract a significant number of new players.  It will however be more user friendly to those who are more fluent in non-English speakers, which is why it is important anyway.

Edited by Alshain

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scottadges    146
54 minutes ago, Alshain said:

localization is not likely to attract a significant number of new players. 

You're probably right that it may not garner as many new players as a net-new release, but it would be interesting if Squad released some info (non-proprietary/non-confidential of course) as far as their projections for what localization means for their bottom line.

As a business, they must have some quasi-quantifiable rationale behind dedicating time & resources to localization. Would love to have a "peek behind the curtain" in that respect. :D:funds:

Edited by scottadges

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EBOSHI    385

I understand that there are only native English speakers and native foreign languages speakers who are trying English conversation in this place.
But I don't know the relationship between the population of the country and the population of the language and the population of the game. Does anyone know?
Well, though it might not be very different from the present discussion even if here there are eager translators and earnest experts who can discuss the relationship between language statistics and game marketing:wink:.

Edited by EBOSHI

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BebopRebop    19

I think localisation is a "good faith" gesture, if nothing else. Sure people could just learn English. I could just learn Spanish, or French, or German as well. And it's not that I haven't tried, or that I couldn't stumble my way through a game written in any of those languages, but it makes it a lot easier for me if it's written in my native language, which is English. So I feel like having it in other languages, whether it's good for business or not, is good for people that speak those languages natively.

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Foxster    2430

I question if the effort put into localisation will pay off. 

There will be a bell-curve of sales for KSP. It is has probably reached all those likely to have it bought it, sales now on the tail-end of the bell-curve. I don't see a big increase in sales at this point, with localisation not contributing much. Most gamers who would have bought KSP having enough English to muddle through and having already bought it.

Could perhaps have been a different story if some localisation had been done prior to launch. At this stage though, I think it was best left to the modders. 

The more obvious places to put all that effort now to keep the game alive and the cash rolling in for ongoing development are DLCs and KSP 2.0. 

 

 

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5thHorseman    7636
On 2/3/2017 at 8:39 PM, StrandedonEarth said:

Again. no mention of the the allegedly upcoming supersecret feature?

Thank you for proving that Squad can't win.

Don't mention it, people assume you're not working on it.
Mention it without details, people complain that you're teasing.
Mention it with details, and any one of those details change, people complain that you're not delivering on promises.
Mention it with details, and actually meet all of those details, people will have blown their expectations out of proportion and then complain that you didn't meet their unrealistic expectations.

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T-Red    14

I volunteered to help with Russian translation, but, sadly, my letter has been just ignored. Well, I hope that other people working on it will do a good job, because, unfortunately, most "Russian localizations" of games have questionable quality.

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StrandedonEarth    2004
1 hour ago, 5thHorseman said:

Thank you for proving that Squad can't win.

Um, none of the above? Sorry If I came across as complaining, you may have noticed that I hardly, if ever, complain about anything. Like so many others, I'm just curious about what they have up their sleeve.

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John FX    1749

Good to see long standing bugs/model issues being sorted out and I for one am pleased we are not being told any more about something we won`t be told anything about (super secret)

My hope is that after this update normal work will resume although that hope is only small.

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5thHorseman    7636
1 hour ago, StrandedonEarth said:

Um, none of the above? Sorry If I came across as complaining, you may have noticed that I hardly, if ever, complain about anything. Like so many others, I'm just curious about what they have up their sleeve.

I actually specifically worded option 1 without the word "complain" because you didn't :) Sorry if I came across as attacking you in particular.

But it is true, they can literally not win, because if they answer your question they'll fall into one of the other categories.

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3 hours ago, Foxster said:

I question if the effort put into localisation will pay off. 

I'm not certain that that Squad's goal with localization is to sell more copies. I mean, we all assumed that, but I don't remember them ever actually saying that was the reason. 

I honestly think that they just want to make it accessible to everyone that wants it. And this seems like a good point in the development of the game to do it. They've just released the best update yet (IMO), and there's nothing else major going on (except the super-secret stuff that may or may not be a new feature). 

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klgraham1013    2495
19 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

I actually specifically worded option 1 without the word "complain" because you didn't :) Sorry if I came across as attacking you in particular.

But it is true, they can literally not win, because if they answer your question they'll fall into one of the other categories.

 

It's true.  Some will complain no matter what, but if you let a few's complaints outweigh the praise of the majority, then you're doing it wrong.

I believe the issue stems from Squads method of hype delivery.  They choose to hype a secret.  Doing so, along with the history of such secrets (exhaust ground effects), has led to some being a bit more disillusioned about such things.

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Red Iron Crown    12089
5 hours ago, Foxster said:

I question if the effort put into localisation will pay off. 

There will be a bell-curve of sales for KSP. It is has probably reached all those likely to have it bought it, sales now on the tail-end of the bell-curve. I don't see a big increase in sales at this point, with localisation not contributing much. Most gamers who would have bought KSP having enough English to muddle through and having already bought it.

"Long tail" is the term you're looking for. I think localization will start another, smaller bell curve, which I guess is the reasoning behind putting development effort into it. Honestly I think Chinese is the big untapped market for localization, huge pool of native speakers and a smaller percentage of those speak English well enough to use the that version. We'll see, I suppose.

5 hours ago, Foxster said:

Could perhaps have been a different story if some localisation had been done prior to launch. At this stage though, I think it was best left to the modders. 

The more obvious places to put all that effort now to keep the game alive and the cash rolling in for ongoing development are DLCs and KSP 2.0.

Well, if DLCs become a thing then having the larger, localized player base would be beneficial. It might have benefits for a sequel, too, as Squad will have gained experience in localizing for a bigger market, experience that could be brought to bear on localizing an initial release.

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EBOSHI    385
7 hours ago, Foxster said:

I question if the effort put into localisation will pay off. 

There will be a bell-curve of sales for KSP. It is has probably reached all those likely to have it bought it, sales now on the tail-end of the bell-curve. I don't see a big increase in sales at this point, with localisation not contributing much. Most gamers who would have bought KSP having enough English to muddle through and having already bought it.

Could perhaps have been a different story if some localisation had been done prior to launch. At this stage though, I think it was best left to the modders. 

The more obvious places to put all that effort now to keep the game alive and the cash rolling in for ongoing development are DLCs and KSP 2.0. 

The more obvious places to put all that effort now to keep the game alive and the cash rolling in for ongoing development are DLCs, KSP 2.0 and localisation.

You seems to think that it is better for KSP to have those three.

You attempted to claim what you want, but in fact it is questionable whether all three will succeed or not. But at the same time I think all three are our hope and expectation.

Edited by EBOSHI

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pandaman    1155

I'm all for localisation, even if the additional new sales as a result of it are not huge the increased accessibility for non native English speakers has to be a good thing.

In my experience there is often a very noticeable difference between a 'native' speaker and a 'taught' speaker.  All languages have their quirks and 'subtleties', these come naturally to native speakers and are often picked up by 'taught' speakers that are sufficiently emersed in an environment with native speakers.  But most 'taught' speakers  simply don't get the level of emersion needed to pick up those subtleties however well taught they may be.  Even native UK English and native US English speakers have language difficulties because of these qurks and subtleties on occasion, and different UK regional accents and dialects cause enough confusion at times.

So... I believe that having a KSP in one's own native language would make it more comfortable, and therefore more enjoyable, for many non native English speakers to use, regardless of how good their English language skills may be.  So yes, I think the time and effort put into localisation is a good investment, it may not give a huge or immediate sales and revenue boost, but I think long term it will benefit Squad and the whole player base.

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swjr-swis    1454
On 2/4/2017 at 4:47 AM, JPLRepo said:

What has been asked for is we would like more save files to assist in debugging and ensuring the bug is fixed once fixed. Please paste them into this bug report which is one that I copied just for the purposes of collecting the bug reports.

Seeing as your request did not garner any new save files on that report yet, I went and drove around a rover in search of the seams. I've attached save files and screenshots of several I found, near the KSC, on the beach, in the ocean, and up in the hills.

They are not difficult to spot once you know what to look for: the tell-tales are bright straight lines with moving intermittent patterns when you are moving, towards the sides of the screen or the terrain horizon. But keep an eye on them when getting near because then they tend to fade in with the terrain (the blue of the 'ocean' surface visible through the gap doesn't contrast much from the deep green of grass/hills).

Not all of them cause noticeable steps when driving over them, but they can break a wheel even when rolling over them at slow speeds (10m/s unpowered, rolling down the hill).

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mikegarrison    803

I'm not in any way opposed to localization.

But that being said, English is the international language of aviation (with a few French words mixed in). I wonder if that means that more people interested in game like KSP would be comfortable in English than if the game was about some other subject.

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legoclone09    2303

The uproar about localization is like saying anime should never be subbed (or dubbed) because you can just learn Japanese. It's a needed thing so everyone can enjoy it.

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Motokid600    867

How far fetched of a dream is it that to hope for one day the only terrain in KSP that behaves like ice is ice? Unity limitation?

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BeeGeenie    139

Yo, People complaining about localization, I'm really happy for you, I'ma let you finish, but Kerbal Spice Program had some of the best fan submissions of all time!

 

Seriously though. As a fan of linguistics, I applaud the KSP team on their diligent work to make it easier to share KSP with the world.

 

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scottadges    146
10 minutes ago, BeeGeenie said:

 

Yo, People complaining about localization, I'm really happy for you, I'ma let you finish, but Kerbal Spice Program had some of the best fan submissions of all time!

 

 

I sense an imgur Kanye/Kerbal photoshop meme contest in there somewhere 

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