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antipro

no connection lander

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Hi,

please look at this short video, it shows when I detach the last stage and the lander lose the connection.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8fxfbora0wsp8fu/network.mp4?dl=0

I can't understand. I've already landed on Duna with the same lander yesterday with no problems, I repeated the mission cause I had few fotovoltaic panels.
But now I can't land. The connection is ensured by the polar survey sat repeater.. so why?

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I can't see exactly where the relay's connections are going but even before you decouple you're not connecting through it, you're connecting directly to Kerbin even though you only have 4% signal strength. That shouldn't happen - the routing will tend to choose the strongest signal path. Either there's a broken link between the relay and Kerbin or it's not actually acting as a relay for some reason.

edit: a common problem I've seen people run into is putting a weak relay antenna and a strong normal antenna on their interplanetary relays. That will give you a scenario like this one: it looks like the relay has a connection to Kerbin, and it does, and it looks like your ship has a connection to the relay, and it does, but you can't relay signals through it because the relay antenna and the direct antenna do not combine signal strengths with each other for the purposes of actually relaying. The relay antenna(s) on the relay sat need to be able to reach Kerbin on their own for relaying to work.

Edited by renhanxue

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Maybe I'm blind, but I don't see a probe core on the lander.

-- Actually, I don't think it has one. Note that when you decouple, your decoupled lander bit shows up as "debris" in the map view.

 

Edited by bewing

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it is there, between the shield and the gyroscopes

the debris is the detached part, the engine, there are 2 icons on the same place.

Edited by antipro

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You decoupled the longer-range antennae, most likely the 16-S's don't have the range to reach the relay. You have the map view in network mode so the green line you're seeing is probably from the debris, rather than the lander.

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1 hour ago, antipro said:

it is there, between the shield and the gyroscopes

the debris is the detached part, the engine, there are 2 icons on the same place.

OK, so yeah, as renhanxue says -- your relay isn't relaying. So we need to look at that. What antennas does it have? Does the relay currently have power?

(The 4% direct connection to Kerbin is a known bug, so that part is expected.)

And on your settings, I want to verify your current setting on your "Require connection for control" button (under: difficulty/advanced).

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1 hour ago, arctangent said:

You decoupled the longer-range antennae, most likely the 16-S's don't have the range to reach the relay. You have the map view in network mode so the green line you're seeing is probably from the debris, rather than the lander.

Technically possible but highly unlikely to be the sole cause of the problem. The 16-S isn't combinable, but a single 16-S vs a RA-2 still has a max range of around 31.6 megameters. Duna's SOI radius is only around 47 Mm.

40 minutes ago, bewing said:

(The 4% direct connection to Kerbin is a known bug, so that part is expected.)

Under what circumstances does that happen? I really haven't done any testing of this but I have noticed that my ships are quite willing to choose a path through a close relay even though Kerbin is directly visible and in range, if it gets them a better connection.

Edited by renhanxue

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5 minutes ago, renhanxue said:

Under what circumstances does that happen? I really haven't done any testing of this but I have noticed that my ships are quite willing to choose a path through a close relay even though Kerbin is directly visible and in range, if it gets them a better connection.

Nobody knows yet, but there is a repeatable formal bug report in the system that the devs are looking at.

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here some screenshots

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/c1rn0vpiwoiw991/AADbL79MaE1qRVL3LDbOlS7Za?dl=0

The relay sat uses both, direct and RA.

 

1 hour ago, arctangent said:

You decoupled the longer-range antennae, most likely the 16-S's don't have the range to reach the relay. You have the map view in network mode so the green line you're seeing is probably from the debris, rather than the lander.

the 16-s can reach the relay sat. the link cant be from or to a debris, or not?

 

 

1 hour ago, renhanxue said:

I can't see exactly where the relay's connections are going but even before you decouple you're not connecting through it, you're connecting directly to Kerbin even though you only have 4% signal strength. That shouldn't happen - the routing will tend to choose the strongest signal path. Either there's a broken link between the relay and Kerbin or it's not actually acting as a relay for some reason.

edit: a common problem I've seen people run into is putting a weak relay antenna and a strong normal antenna on their interplanetary relays. That will give you a scenario like this one: it looks like the relay has a connection to Kerbin, and it does, and it looks like your ship has a connection to the relay, and it does, but you can't relay signals through it because the relay antenna and the direct antenna do not combine signal strengths with each other for the purposes of actually relaying. The relay antenna(s) on the relay sat need to be able to reach Kerbin on their own for relaying to work.

yes I am connected to kerbin directly but even the relay is connected.
Have I to use only Relays Antennae on Relay sats, because of they do not combine, really?
If yes, I think this could explain my problem, and it explain also why yesterday I reached the Duna surface: Duna and Kerbin was closer than today.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, bewing said:

OK, so yeah, as renhanxue says -- your relay isn't relaying. So we need to look at that. What antennas does it have? Does the relay currently have power?

(The 4% direct connection to Kerbin is a known bug, so that part is expected.)

And on your settings, I want to verify your current setting on your "Require connection for control" button (under: difficulty/advanced).


Yes, it is not realying, even if it has 14% signal.
What is the 4% DC Bug? can u link something or explain in 2 words?
My "Require Signal to Control" is enabled, I can control the relay sat but probably, as Duna and Kerbin are in opposition it can't relay.
This lack of relay capability should be indicated somewhere, don't you think?

I don't have saves to edit and relaunch the relay sat, I have to build a new one and kill this or I made a new one around Eve to reduce the distance.

Edited by antipro

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11 minutes ago, antipro said:

Have I to use only Relays Antennae on Relay sats, because of they do not combine, really?
If yes, I think this could explain my problem, and it explain also why yesterday I reached the Duna surface: Duna and Kerbin was closer than today.

Yes. Direct antennas do not combine with relay antennas. You have 2 RA2 relay antennas on your relay ship, and that is not giving you enough relay signal. The 4 direct antennas on your relay ship do nothing except cause confusion.

 

And the direct connect bug is that sometimes the game will prefer to use a direct connection to Kerbin, even when it has a better relay connection available. Once the Kerbin connection goes to zero, it will switch to using the relay connection -- but then it may switch back to a direct connection to Kerbin as soon as it gets a chance.

 

Edited by bewing

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ok solved, you was right, thanks!
I tested it just now, I'm saving the mission orbiting around Duna for several days until Kerbin was at 3/4 of the previous distance and the relay sat started to work at 28% with the lander at 1%.

 

Edited by antipro

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