Squad, please check rescue contract orbits!

[Loren Pechtel]

The mission was to recover a Kerbal in Kerbin's orbit.   I didn't notice anything strange about the orbit but it must have passed within the SOI of one of the moons.  The poor Kerbal was last seen in the vicinity of Eve.

(I think the contract simply expired rather than his meeting his doom there as it didn't actually show an intercept.  I had a bird chasing him, missed a maneuver window, it was going to take a couple more years to get there.)

[bewing]

There's a feedback report in the tracker about that subject, but I'm not sure when it'll get dealt with. I agree that it's annoying that you can't see the orbit until you've accepted the contract; and depending on where your ships are sitting, some victims may be unrescuable.

[ForScience6686]

This is why I stick to the low orbit rescues.  Easier to do and no foul ups like that.  If you can rescue in low orbit you can rescue anywhere, nothing new is learned.

[Loren Pechtel]

24 minutes ago, ForScience6686 said:

This is why I stick to the low orbit rescues.  Easier to do and no foul ups like that.  If you can rescue in low orbit you can rescue anywhere, nothing new is learned.

I used to play no-Kerbal-left-behind but now I'm getting enough rescue contracts that's not possible.  High Kerbin orbit rescues take a lot of fuel, I've decided they aren't worth it.  Where the money & reputation is Minmus orbital rescues.  The gravity is low enough that nothing is expensive.  I collect up a bunch and send a big bird for them.

[Aegolius13]

This is also a major hazard with "rescue _____ in orbit around Duna" contracts.  Ike's gravity well is so big compared to Duna that captures and "assists" happen all the time.  And unless you already have assets at Duna, you don't have the option to conduct an immediate recovery before shenanigans can occur.  I spent an inordinate amount of time in the last career trying to chase down one poor Kerbal.  But I guess he's lucky he didn't get ejected out of the system, or crash into Duna or Ike.

Would be nice if the game generated only orbits for stranded Kerbals/scrap that did not intersect with the SOI of any satellite.  

[bewing]

1 hour ago, Aegolius13 said:

Would be nice if the game generated only orbits for stranded Kerbals/scrap that did not intersect with the SOI of any satellite.  

Yeah, well -- do you realize how hard it would be to calculate the future position and SOI of every single celestial object at all times forever into the future to see if the current vessel ever intersected one of them?

Or even if the code narrowed it down to just a handful of possible objects that could intersect ... the whole concept of "no intersect ever" is basically an impossible calculational task.

[HebaruSan]

Isn't this just a more challenging scenario to supplement the same old rescues? Nothing in the game world would prevent emergencies in dangerous orbits. NASA didn't get to plead "no fair" when Apollo 13 radio'd back that their oxygen tank exploded.

[Loren Pechtel]

10 minutes ago, bewing said:

Yeah, well -- do you realize how hard it would be to calculate the future position and SOI of every single celestial object at all times forever into the future to see if the current vessel ever intersected one of them?

Or even if the code narrowed it down to just a handful of possible objects that could intersect ... the whole concept of "no intersect ever" is basically an impossible calculational task.

It wouldn't be hard--look at the periapsis and apoapsis of everything (with mass) in the same SOI.  Make sure the Kerbal doesn't cross any of them.

[Loren Pechtel]

30 minutes ago, HebaruSan said:

Isn't this just a more challenging scenario to supplement the same old rescues? Nothing in the game world would prevent emergencies in dangerous orbits. NASA didn't get to plead "no fair" when Apollo 13 radio'd back that their oxygen tank exploded.

The problem is it should be possible, or at least we should see what the orbit is before agreeing to go get the guy.

[bewing]

23 minutes ago, HebaruSan said:

Isn't this just a more challenging scenario to supplement the same old rescues? Nothing in the game world would prevent emergencies in dangerous orbits. NASA didn't get to plead "no fair" when Apollo 13 radio'd back that their oxygen tank exploded.

I agree, but I want to know in advance that the contract I'm about to accept is for an emergency rescue, and at what SOI transition. And maybe how much time I have.

16 minutes ago, Loren Pechtel said:

It wouldn't be hard--look at the periapsis and apoapsis of everything (with mass) in the same SOI.  Make sure the Kerbal doesn't cross any of them.

OK, I'll add that to the tracker feedback about that issue as a possible solution.

 

[Aegolius13]

13 hours ago, HebaruSan said:

Isn't this just a more challenging scenario to supplement the same old rescues? Nothing in the game world would prevent emergencies in dangerous orbits. NASA didn't get to plead "no fair" when Apollo 13 radio'd back that their oxygen tank exploded.

I would not mind a special contract for this - would be interesting to have some time pressure.   But would be good to have done advance notice of what you're getting into.   And probably limit it to Kerbin's SOI.

[Loren Pechtel]

11 hours ago, bewing said:

I agree, but I want to know in advance that the contract I'm about to accept is for an emergency rescue, and at what SOI transition. And maybe how much time I have.

OK, I'll add that to the tracker feedback about that issue as a possible solution.

 

More thoughts here:

1)  Perhaps there should be four types of Kerbal rescue contract:

A)  Safe:  The plotted orbit does not intersect any SOI.

B)  Hazardous:  The plotted orbit potentially intersects a SOI.  The compensation would be higher and the time limit would be calculated as if it was a rescue in Kerbol's SOI, no matter where it actually is.

My math isn't up to knowing if these can be determined fast enough:

C)  Dangerous:  The plotted orbit definitely intersects a SOI.  Like B but more compensation and you are told when the SOI intersection will happen.

D)  Deadly:  The plotted orbit is an impact trajectory.  Very high compensation, the time limit is moot.

I am not looking at plotting a whole bunch of SOI transitions.  Two should be enough--does it impact the body whose SOI it wandered into, otherwise, when it leaves is it heading for the planet.  I realize a full test (projecting forward across any number of SOI boundaries) is almost certainly prohibitive.

Unlike what Aegolius13 says, I would not limit these to Kerbin's SOI, it's just they would pay very well indeed if they spawned anywhere else.  The only way you could actually get them is if you maintained rescue forces around the planet in question.

2)  If you don't like the system above, a contract is spawned with a Kerbal in a planet's SOI and said Kerbal ends up in Kerbol's SOI increase the duration.

3)  Another version of a safe contract:

The Kerbal intersects a SOI but only when outside the inclination of the body (counting the width of it's SOI, not just it's center.)  A Kerbal with periapsis at 100km over the south pole of Kerbin and apoapsis at 50Mm isn't going to intersect any SOIs even though it crosses two of them.

[bewing]

4 minutes ago, Loren Pechtel said:

More thoughts here:

1)  Perhaps there should be four types of Kerbal rescue contract:

That's actually pretty close to what I put into the dev feedback, hopefully for implementation someday. I put in your "safe" option for regular (unlimited time) rescue contracts.

Then a new category of "Emergency rescue" contracts.

1 star = minor gravity slingshot (randomized, but Pe > SOI radius / 2), 2 star = major gravity slingshot (Pe < SOI/2), 3 star = impact.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

1 hour ago, bewing said:

That's actually pretty close to what I put into the dev feedback, hopefully for implementation someday. I put in your "safe" option for regular (unlimited time) rescue contracts.

Then a new category of "Emergency rescue" contracts.

1 star = minor gravity slingshot (randomized, but Pe > SOI radius / 2), 2 star = major gravity slingshot (Pe < SOI/2), 3 star = impact.

 

I disagree--the size of the slingshot doesn't matter, what matters is where he ends up.  Plot the orbit after leaving the SOI and see if it's ejection or impact.

[Jarin]

Had a rescue contract in low Kerbol orbit, and didn't notice the spelling difference from Kerbin. I decided to cheat something with absurd TWR and infinite fuel into a direct intercept, but the stranded pod exploded from heat shortly after physics loaded.

[bewing]

29 minutes ago, Jarin said:

Had a rescue contract in low Kerbol orbit, and didn't notice the spelling difference from Kerbin. I decided to cheat something with absurd TWR and infinite fuel into a direct intercept, but the stranded pod exploded from heat shortly after physics loaded.

OK, that's a serious contract bug, and I will report it immediately.

You wouldn't happen to have a savegame for that, would you?

Edited February 21, 2017 by bewing

[Kerbart]

I had a contract like that... The orbit was just passing within the SOI of Mun. Not enough to eject it outside the Kerbal system, but enough to foul up any transfer orbit every single time. Of course you could brute-force yourself with some 5000 m/s DV approach right next to it... but at that point the contract had become hugely unattractive.

[Gordon Fecyk]

2 hours ago, Jarin said:

Had a rescue contract in low Kerbol orbit, and didn't notice the spelling difference from Kerbin.

Wait, I thought "Kerbol" was a forum-spawned name and the game calls the star 'Sun.' When did the game start calling the sun that for contracts?

[Loren Pechtel]

2 hours ago, bewing said:

OK, that's a serious contract bug, and I will report it immediately.

You wouldn't happen to have a savegame for that, would you?

That's worse than I've seen.  The scariest one I had was at half the orbit of Moho.  I took one look and reloaded the save I made before taking it.

[bewing]

35 minutes ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

Wait, I thought "Kerbol" was a forum-spawned name and the game calls the star 'Sun.' When did the game start calling the sun that for contracts?

Probably when Arsonide got hold of the contract system. He called it Kerbol, too.

[Jarin]

2 hours ago, bewing said:

OK, that's a serious contract bug, and I will report it immediately.

You wouldn't happen to have a savegame for that, would you?

Sorry, this was a while ago. May have been 1.1.2 or something. And actually, I think it might have been the kerbal that overheated, not the pod.

[bewing]

Yeah, I was testing that, and kerbals will overheat below 2Gm altitude.

[Arsonide]

On 2/20/2017 at 9:05 PM, bewing said:

Probably when Arsonide got hold of the contract system. He called it Kerbol, too.

Personally - never in game.

[sal_vager]

On 21/02/2017 at 3:05 AM, bewing said:

Probably when Arsonide got hold of the contract system. He called it Kerbol, too.

The official internal name is Sun, nothing 'K' related, and I know Arsonide is professional enough to have avoided this word when working on contracts.

 

On 21/02/2017 at 0:04 AM, Jarin said:

Had a rescue contract in low Kerbol orbit, and didn't notice the spelling difference from Kerbin. I decided to cheat something with absurd TWR and infinite fuel into a direct intercept, but the stranded pod exploded from heat shortly after physics loaded.

I'd like to see this contract, and your logs, as this should not occur in a stock game.

[Jarin]

3 hours ago, sal_vager said:

I'd like to see this contract, and your logs, as this should not occur in a stock game.

Like I said, this was a while ago, so the save is long gone. Just anecdote at this point unfortunately. Sorry I don't have something more useful.