_Augustus_

TRAPPIST-1 now has seven planets. (Possible life?)

Recommended Posts

sal_vager    5744

Guys, apparently this is what TRAPPIST-1 looks like, this is possibly the image from the Transiting Planets and Planetesimals Small Telescope at the La Silla Observatory, or through the Spitzer space telescope.

giphy.gif

 

It's being discussed on Reddit, including how they are able to tease out the data on the planets, you might want to take a look.

More info including graphs and the animation above are here.

And raw data here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Spaceception    2731

Planet h has an equil temp of 169k, putting it on the snow line, and an orbital period of 18.764 days.

Additionally, TRAPPIST-1 has a rotational period of 3.3 days, and has a number of flares consistent with an active, middle aged, late M dwarf.

More info here: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.04166.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Green Baron    952
Posted (edited)

More data via the Nature page or through the team of the University of Liége. The first name in the authors list of the original paper is the one to address.

Guys, you overestimate our momentary possibilities by magnitudes. Also much has been put as facts which are just fantasies. Nobody knows what these planets look like, no spectral traces of atmospheres were found (though featureless atmospheres can not be ruled out completely).

The orbital parameters of the planets where deduced by changes in the apparent magnitude of the star. I'd laugh out loud if one day we find out that we were hunting sun spots or a yet unknown form of solar activity.

This does not mean that i think it is bogus, i think it is serious data that yet needs some interpretation (that's why all the speculation takes place ;-)) but i also think it'll take yet a few years and maybe new telescopes to get a clearer view of that system

Btw., the thrilling question for planetary science is not whether there is life but how could such a system possibly form.

:-)

Edited by Green Baron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Green Baron    952
Posted (edited)
On 14.3.2017 at 5:47 PM, Spaceception said:

Planet h has an equil temp of 169k, putting it on the snow line, and an orbital period of 18.764 days.

Additionally, TRAPPIST-1 has a rotational period of 3.3 days, and has a number of flares consistent with an active, middle aged, late M dwarf.

More info here: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.04166.pdf

I just wanted to link this but you already did so :-)

May i add: preliminary evaluation of the K2 data, not yet published.

I do not agree with the "169K is on the snow line" part. At least not H20 snow. 100K are missing if we ignore highly speculative atmospheres or other heating mechanisms that we don't know about.

Be it as it may: the star is between 3 and 8 billion years old. There is no reason to assume that the planets have not formed in place. But the system might get instable in the future (a billion of years), see original paper.

The E-ELT might be able to actually give images of the planets :-)

 

Edited by Green Baron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bill Phil    1451
On ‎3‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 0:54 AM, 0111narwhalz said:

Problem is, there're no gas giants. Probably. I'd expect they would find a large body like a gas giant before a pile of little pebbles, but this is outside my range of (mediocre) expertise.

Red dwarf stars have very low likelihood for gas giants. This star has an unusally high metallicity, so rocky planets could be fairly likely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Spaceception    2731
Posted (edited)

April fools paper on TRAPPIST-1 :D

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.10803.pdf

 

Beer jokes galore!

TRAPPIST-1b as
Achel the brown
.
TRAPPIST-1c as
Isid’or the amber
.
TRAPPIST-1d as
Trappe the blond
.
TRAPPIST-1e as
Chimay la bleue
.
TRAPPIST-1f as
Chimay la rouge
.
TRAPPIST-1g as
Chimay the gold-i-locked
.
TRAPPIST-1h as
Chimay la blanch
Edited by Spaceception

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Scotius    1578

I wonder how many six-packs were consumed during this thirst-inducing research process :D Or was it kegs? :lol:Na zdrowie!!! As we say in Poland raising full glasses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Spaceception    2731
9 minutes ago, Scotius said:

I wonder how many six-packs were consumed during this thirst-inducing research process :D Or was it kegs? :lol:Na zdrowie!!! As we say in Poland raising full glasses.

I like TRAPPIST-1d's name the best :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ProtoJeb21    2569

Some interesting stuff published recently. There's been some 3D atmosphere modeling on the TRAPPIST planets, and guess who's survived to become the prime potentially habitable planet of the system?

*drumroll*

TRAPPIST-1E!

Here's the article: http://www.space.com/36349-trappist-1e-just-right-for-life.html

Also, some preliminary analysis of the radiation coming from Trappist-1 is making people conclude that all the planets have be stripped of their atmospheres. Here's what's irking me: 

PLANETS B AND C HAVE CONFIRMED ATMOSPHERES! DON'T YOU PEOPLE REMEMBER?!

*deep breath* Okay, here's the link: https://www.universetoday.com/134882/trappist-1-showing-bit-much-flare/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Green Baron    952
Posted (edited)

Here's the pre-print: https://arxiv.org/abs/1703.05815

The model is based on assumptions of liquid water and atmospheres, not observations, or am i getting something severely wrong ? Sorry for spoiling if so :-). Edit: the applied model calculations suggest that 1e is the only planet that could have kept its water at least partially liquid under the assumptions made. "Just right for life" sounds a little lurid ...

All i remember is that no spectral traces of atmospheres were detected, or do we have new data ? Am heavily interested of course ...

 

Edited by Green Baron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Green Baron    952

The main problem i have with much of the work on exoplanets is that so much is based on assumptions and hypothetical preconditions that it is really close to guessing imo. Like "if there was water" and "if there was an atmosphere" and "if we interpreted this as flares" ... it seems like in the recent past people got ever more eager to outrival each other with these "ifs".

I am not sure whether all these assumptions can be confirmed by observations in the future. I really would not be surprised if different explanations turn out to explain the flickering of some of these pixels that represent stars, or if some of our models that represent radiation transport in stars are not as applicable as we might think.

We need bigger telescopes. Bigger is better, as is sooner :-)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ProtoJeb21    2569

http://astrobiology.com/2017/04/updated-masses-for-the-trappist-1-planets.html

New masses for the Trappist planets! And the results...are kinda weird.

While the masses are not entirely pinned down, there are some interesting things suggested with this data. Theros (b) definitely seems like a coreless planet, Auxo (c) appears to be an iron-rich planet, Thallo (d), may have a more rocky composition than previously thought (less iron), Eiar (e) is in a very interesting spot (more on that later), Irene (f) still seems to be a mainly oceanic planet, Carphos (g) is FAR more water-rich than before, and Cheimon (h) appears to be just around 8.6% the mass of Earth. This shows that many of the Trappist planets are either frozen icy planets or have retained quite a lot of liquid water despite their attention-seeking star. That boosts some hope for worlds like Kepler-438b and Proxima b (the latter I still believe to host some sort of civilization).

Back to Eiar, it has the least certain mass of all the planets. Cheimon could arguably be worse, but the upper and lower limits of Eiar's mass are more over the place. It could be less than 0.24 Earth masses (ocean planet/gas dwarf) or as high as 0.80 Earth masses, making it a rock-rich planet slightly denser than Earth. The former seems too low mass and too rich in hydrogen and water to stay intact over the 3-8 billion year lifespan of the Trappist system. I would put my money closer to the upper limit, which makes sense with Auxo's ridiculous iron content and the unusually high metallicity of Trappist-1 - +0.04 [Fe/H], rather high among tiny red dwarfs.

Also, more cool news for the system: a bio-signature (or water signature) search with the THIRSTY telescope! Man, those guys LOVE making awesome acronyms.

http://astrobiology.com/2017/04/observations-of-trappist-1-exoplanetary-system-fosters-a-new-biomarker.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ProtoJeb21    2569

Finally...after so long...all the planets have all their physical and orbital parameters measured!

What's also cool is that Carphos (g) and Cheimon (h) are in a 3:2 resonance like Jool and Eeloo. Similarly, Cheimon has the highest eccentricity in the system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Spaceception    2731
6 minutes ago, ProtoJeb21 said:

Finally...after so long...all the planets have all their physical and orbital parameters measured!

What's also cool is that Carphos (g) and Cheimon (h) are in a 3:2 resonance like Jool and Eeloo. Similarly, Cheimon has the highest eccentricity in the system.

 

I am increasingly convinced that this is the Kerbol system.

And if g doesn't turn out to be a chilly water world, or at least a gas dwarf, I'm going to flip a rocket.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ProtoJeb21    2569
18 minutes ago, Spaceception said:

And if g doesn't turn out to be a chilly water world, or at least a gas dwarf, I'm going to flip a rocket.

Then I'd suggest moving to Australia within the next 0.6 seconds.

The mass of Carphos is the most accurate of the system, and appears to be 0.56 times that of Earth. That's too much mass for a gas dwarf, suggesting that it's a water-rich planet. But I'm not too sure if it will have a greenhouse effect powerful enough to warm up said ice to 32*F or above.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheEpicSquared    1887
2 minutes ago, ProtoJeb21 said:

But I'm not too sure if it will have a greenhouse effect powerful enough to warm up said ice to 32*F or above.

Is there any way to find out the greenhouse effect level of a planet? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Spaceception    2731
16 minutes ago, TheEpicSquared said:

Is there any way to find out the greenhouse effect level of a planet? 

Find an atmosphere.

G should be large enough to hold on to a decent atmosphere, but I agree, it might be too cold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ProtoJeb21    2569
27 minutes ago, Spaceception said:

Find an atmosphere.

G should be large enough to hold on to a decent atmosphere, but I agree, it might be too cold.

I agree. But it may be possible that there's a good amount of tidal heating to create volcanoes, generating higher surface temperatures than expected. For now I'd say that the equator has the highest chance of having liquid water.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ProtoJeb21    2569

Visual ideas time!

-Theros: The terrrestrial atmosphere, low density, and temperature suggest that this world has an odd surface chemistry. It would be mainly covered in odd, supercritical oceans of liquid water. Some giant shield volcanoes could be poking out.

-Auxo: Basically, this is Eve 2.0. Its iron content suggests it could have some seas of liquid metals - most likely Gallium. Volcanoes would dot a bizarre, craggy surface made of chemicals rarely found on Earth. The atmosphere would be thick and rich in volcanic gases.

-Thallo: Quite a dynamic looking, small planet. Most of this world is a desert with a few significant craters strewn about. Seas of liquid water pool in the cooler regions, and there are a few patches of bright blue plant life. There's also a large back-side ice cap.

-Eiar: Somewhat similar to Thallo, but with a few striking differences. The surface is completely coated in purple life, except for the ice-tipped mountains. About 60% of the front side is covered in water. The back side is also a large ice sheet. The atmosphere is purple due to bacteria.

-Irene: This world is more of a gaseous planet than Carphos. It has a puffy, thick atmosphere mainly made of water vapor and methane. The clouds here would be more or less in messy belts. Below is a watery, icy surface. 75% of the surface is frozen solid - the very front side is liquid.

-Carphos: I like to think of this planet as being completely green - ocean, land, and atmosphere alike. It has huge POLAR ice caps stretching close to the equator, but are jagged and broken by rivers and seas. The atmosphere is also rather thick but not as cloudy as that of Irene.

-Cheimon: The lone icy world of the system. It is likely very similar to Ceres, but with larger craters and more varied colors. They could range from blue-white to yellow-cream. There might also be a thin, wispy atmosphere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Arugela    130
Posted (edited)

So, if one day we get high resolution imaging for these objects will we look back on these days and make bad memes about atari video game hypage? Or should we assume the future is now? 8)

110432.jpg?v=1

Call me skeptical, but I'm taking the route of caution with all 8 bit blurry images proving anything or being useful for analysis. I'm going to assume it will come out like any other past analog(pun intended) for past scientific thought before more grueling evidence is available. It's just one of those things I can't get myself to take a leap of faith beyond.

The image is like a very zoomed in part of the above picture. In fact if they faked it and really did take that from this image how would you ever know. 8p They could have some vintage stuff sitting around from the 80's and just ripped the images and pretended to do all the hard work. ><

And, should we not be concerned the most overly funded and probably powerful entity in the modern world(I'm assuming nasa) is the only one still using the term epic with, in essence, an atari video game image. Let alone calling it hard scientific evidence.

Or maybe the crappy funding at the whatever place is doing the research is stuck with an atari for entertainment and got a bright idea for a hoaxs that went too far some years ago! >< "Dude! Just stick the CRT monitor at the correct distance in front of the telescope on a mount. Nobody visits for years at a time. No one will ever know!!", "So, close. If we get a new high score on space invaders we can say we found a new class of black hole!"

The images for that would be humorous. Because with Atari, "The universe is in your hands!!" oO

spacewar-decus-1962.jpg

Edited by Arugela

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
electricpants    531

@ProtoJeb21, will you be updating IA Revived to accomodate for the changes with TRAPPIST-1's planets?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ProtoJeb21    2569
2 minutes ago, electricpants said:

@ProtoJeb21, will you be updating IA Revived to accomodate for the changes with TRAPPIST-1's planets?

Absolutely. I've had plans for reworking the entire system for a few weeks now, but recently I've taken a break from modding to do my first casual sandbox gameplay in MONTHS. Seriously, I always play a bit too...seriously. It's nice to do a giant mission without worrying about putting science gathering thingamadoodles on it.

Where was I? Oh yes, Trappist-1.

Every planet is getting an atmosphere, and the two inner worlds are getting oceans. Although I will have to remove the moon Arctus because a recent study showed that moons will be IMPOSSIBLE in this system. So sad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
electricpants    531
1 minute ago, ProtoJeb21 said:

Although I will have to remove the moon Arctus because a recent study showed that moons will be IMPOSSIBLE in this system. So sad.

I will grieve for Arctus :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now