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How will you get to one of the planets?


Candre
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I\'d start by building a number of giant spaceships. First, a heavy lift system to get Orbital Construction SpaceDocks and MiningDrills to Minmus and the Mun, to simulate mining, and a SpaceDock in Munar orbit, to serve as the true orbital shipyard. From those bases I\'d sacrifice some parts to make spareParts ferries/fuel barges. Something like this...

1117987-VKOTMKS.png

Hope the picture ain\'t too big.

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I\'ll have you know that Philip Bono is my favorite rocket designer. Of course, I think his designs would have been greatly improved had they used LOX-assisted solid- or closed cycle gas-core nuclear thermal systems instead of dinky chemical rockets, but nevertheless his heavy lifters just looked awesome. I know a bit less about the DH-1. Thanks for the compliment, btw, yes I drew that.

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So... Like this?

http://nextbigfuture.com/2007/07/gaseous-core-nuclear-design-liberty.html

...Sadly, this will never be built due to the modern perception of nuclear power. You hear that? That\'s the sound of environmentalists collectively soiling their pants at the very thought of a gigantic, nuclear rocket.

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Guest butt head

I feel like this is relevant.

-snip-

i did some math and the deltav required to do a landing from 13000miles per hour is 5811.52 m/s and to take off from kerbin take about 5.5 m/s on the low end

so maby 11-12 km/s to take off from kerbin and land on mors and to get in an intercept course would be maby 4km/s so a ship with 16km/s deltav would be needed which i think is totally possible

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So... Like this?

http://nextbigfuture.com/2007/07/gaseous-core-nuclear-design-liberty.html

...Sadly, this will never be built due to the modern perception of nuclear power. You hear that? That\'s the sound of environmentalists collectively soiling their pants at the very thought of a gigantic, nuclear rocket.

Yes, like that. And as for your last paragraph, maybe. It\'s important to remember that there can be other things keeping us from building a gigantic nuclear rocket, other than environmentalists and NIMBYs and other bogeymen. If that were all that held us back, would we have thousands of nuclear warheads pointed at other nations all over the globe right now? A lot more people protested those than any nuclear spacecraft.

That article focuses a lot on the potential dangers and technical challenges (or lack thereof), but doesn\'t really say what it would be used for. Strictly speaking, and speaking as a fan of exotic propulsion, I don\'t know of a lot of reasons to have a giant rocket even if it boasts a potentially very low per-kilo launch cost. In order to be worth the while of developing a high-power high-efficiency but untried and only somewhat-tested technology, much less an entire massive launch platform built around the thing, there needs to be significant demand for heavy launches. What would you do with the cargo capacity of a Liberty Ship? Or, more importantly, how much would it cost to make the actual payload you want to launch with it?

Mining, perhaps, would bring such benefits as to offset the costs? I know too little about the subject to say anything for sure.

There\'s an interesting essay discussing the slightly related Project Orion that, while it lacks any explicit citations for its arguments against the launch system, raises some interesting questions including the one I just asked. You may find it here, archived in a forum post because the page at the original URL is unfortunately defunct. It even mentions gas-core in passing, somewhat more favorably than nuclear bomb-pooping spaceships.

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There\'s an interesting essay discussing the slightly related Project Orion that, while it lacks any explicit citations for its arguments against the launch system, raises some interesting questions including the one I just asked. You may find it here, archived in a forum post because the page at the original URL is unfortunately defunct. It even mentions gas-core in passing, somewhat more favorably than nuclear bomb-pooping spaceships.

As far as I know, the followup to Orion was actually tested (can\'t remember the name of it now, but it was a nuclear rocket without the little mini-bombs, just used a nuclear reactor to superheat the propellant). THey even blew up TWO of those reactors in Nevada... So I don\'t see why the Kerbals can\'t use something like that, sounds like it would be right up their alley :).

That said, though, getting to another planet should be pretty easy once you\'re in orbit with a decent sized ship. LANDING on it will be the real trick.

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My plan is to launch from my Orbital Construction spacedock at KSO or the ones on Mun and Minmus, use an ion engine for orbital maneuvering and 4 chemical (possibly nuclear) rockets around it for landing and takeoff from the desert planet. I\'d also bring many parachutes.

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I\'d start by building a number of giant spaceships. First, a heavy lift system to get Orbital Construction SpaceDocks and MiningDrills to Minmus and the Mun, to simulate mining, and a SpaceDock in Munar orbit, to serve as the true orbital shipyard. From those bases I\'d sacrifice some parts to make spareParts ferries/fuel barges. Something like this...

1117987-VKOTMKS.png

Hope the picture ain\'t too big.

very impressive. love to see your red planet mishon when whe get 0.17.

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I will launch unmanned probe with transporter enhancers and beam my colony to new planets.

science

Or if it fails i will do the same procedures as i was going to rendezvous with something in Kerbin orbit.

Edited by nibula
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Two real problems.

Total delta v is a big one. There is a practical limit to what we can get into orbit, so flying skill to make the most use of your fuel will be important. Might need to do some math while building the ship too (at least for me) to try and totally optimize it).

The other challenge would be actually hitting the planet. I am anticipating something like .5 g's at the surface (or less), which will present a very small target that will not be incredibly helpful for slowing down/drawing you in.

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My Murs mission would go as planned here:

1: Build & launch an OVAB

2: Send a few cargo ships for stocking up on material

3: Grab paper and get some sketches done of orbital info, planned trajectories, etc.

4: Experiment with parts to build an orbital Murs satellite with ISA-MapSat and lots of radar dishes

5: Get a rover built that can land on Murs, the Curiosity way (Prometheus Rover add-on FTW!)

6: Sketch more info on land and aerobraking trajectories and stats for marking a good landing spot

7: Build an unmanned lander similar to the one that will be manned and test

8: Plan a good method of using fuel in a way that can get a crew back from Murs

9: Build a manned rocket ready to fly from MKO (250km)

10: Use my orbital info sketches very efficiently and wisely to get the rocket to Murs

11: Get into LMO and get the aerobraking sketches and orbital map out for a decent area to land at

12: Start the descent and prepare to embrace for whatever will come up, and get the parachutes ready

13: Finish the descent, properly setup for EVA, of course EVA the kerbal, and then glory back at KSC, and all of Kerbin!

14: Wait a few months

15: Start the pack-up for flying back

16: Ascent and LMO for last time

17: Trans-Kerbin burn and my orbital info sketches again for good orbital changes

18: Achieve LKO

19: Prepare aerobraking to KSC and de-orbit

20: Steer through thicker re-entry

21: Deploy parachute

22: Land, and become greatest astronaut ever!

That was my entire mission, the stuff is already sketched and planned out, and also am working on the rockets and satellite that will fly to Murs.

Hope you enjoyed!

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I have not read all the posts, but it seems to me that the deltaV needed is a minor problem compared to find the correct time frame for your transfer there and back!

Slingshot or not you still have to get there when the planet is around....everything else are just subjective details ;P

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If you're going for the Hohmann Transfer, figuring the angle is fairly easy for objects in circular orbits. You've just got to remember Kepler's Third Law.

"The square of the orbital period of a planet is directly proportional to the cube of the semi-major axis of its orbit."

Define at as the semimajor axis of your transfer orbit, equal to (starting orbital altitude + final orbital altitude + diameter of body being orbited by everything)/2.

Define af as the semimajor axis of the orbit of your target object.

tf =0.5 * (at/af)1.5 (Edited to fix mistake in calculation)

tf is the fraction of your target's orbital period that will pass during your Hohmann Transfer travel time.

Your transfer window is thus when your target object is tf of its orbital period away from the point directly opposite your starting point.

For instance, Hohmann transferring from the Mun to Minmus, tf = 0.25, and you should launch directly into a Hohmann transfer when Minmus will have to travel 90 degrees along its orbit to get to a point directly opposite Kerbin from where the Mun is at your time of launch.

Edited by maltesh
Made a mistake in the calculation.
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If you're going for the Hohmann Transfer, figuring the angle is fairly easy for objects in circular orbits. You've just got to remember Kepler's Third Law.

Define at as the semimajor axis of your transfer orbit, equal to (starting orbital altitude + final orbital altitude + diameter of body being orbited by everything)/2.

Define af as the semimajor axis of the orbit of your target object.

tf = (at/af)1.5

tf is the fraction of your target's orbital period that will pass during your Hohmann Transfer travel time.

Your transfer window is thus when your target object is tf of its orbital period away from the point directly opposite your starting point.

For instance, Hohmann transferring from the Mun to Minmus, tf = 0.25, and you should launch directly into a Hohmann transfer when Minmus will have to travel 90 degrees along its orbit to get to a point directly opposite Kerbin from where the Mun is at your time of launch.

In science as in love, too much concentration on technique can often lead to impotence.

P.L. Berger

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I suck at orbital calculations so in my case it would be a matter of gambling. If a destination-planet would be in orbit around Kerbol (Sun) at 20,5 million km, I would raise the highest orbital point to that distance in an attempt to reach the planet. If initial interception would fail, I'd circulize my orbit and eventually get to the planet anyway, but probably blow my chances of return ... !

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My question is how do I know if my parachutes will be able to slow me down enough in the atmosphere? What are the calculations for this and what do I need to know in order to make sure that I know that my parachutes will slow down my craft enough upon descent?

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