SQUAD

KSP Weekly: Refactoring Kerbal

Recommended Posts

Xavven    641
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Majorjim! said:

There will never be a KSP 2. I would bet real money on it. 

I bet another developer will take the concept of KSP and release their own game. It won't be named KSP 2, but it will hopefully be a spiritual successor.

I get the feeling KSP was programmed originally in a very amateurish fashion, and that eventually some professional devs came along and spent hundreds or thousands of hours refactoring the code. Just look at the way they talk about the original code in this very KSP Weekly, or how much went into reprogramming the UI from its multiple inconsistent ways into a new unified one after 1.0 released, etc.

Hopefully a seriously professional dev with more investment capital can make a new, much better game. At this point, I have little hope that career mode is going to change, and it's the game's biggest weak spot IMO.

Edited by Xavven

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
passinglurker    1384

You know what would be a cool surprise from all this refactoring and UI overhauling? if the part upgrade feature that was introduced in 1.2 was made less awkward to leverage and use in the process.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
something    328

 

Ok, now that localisation is being released Squad teases us with even more localisation - a feature I won't use. So see you in 1.5 or 1.6 or whatever version will have settled all those bugs introduced by localisation...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Herakleios    2
Posted (edited)
On 4.3.2017 at 9:45 AM, Thomot512 said:

I'm really happy about the fact that you work on bug fixing even if i find 1.2.2 already fairly stable.

On the other hand I really don't get why you try to translate the game in other language.

 

My mother language is french, my 'first' second language is german and as you may see I speak a little bit of English and as far as I know there is no way to translate 'Rocket scientist' neither in french nor in german. And according to wikipedia, Rocket Science doesn't even exist in any other language.

So my question is: why do you even try to translate a game about 'Mad rocket scientist' if the concept of the game exist only in English.

 

The other reason why I think it's a lost of time to translate the game is that a lot of us play with mods and they won't be translated and then most of the player playing with mod will stick with english.

In german (i am a native speaker) Raketenwissenschaft is the equivalent. It is used the same way "rocket science" is used in english. 

For example it is used to say that something is / or is not a complex thing.

For example: "Webdesign ist keine Raketenwissenschaft." 

Here are some more good examples:

http://www.linguee.de/deutsch-englisch/uebersetzung/keine+raketenwissenschaft.html

Some of them i have heard in real life in the same phrasing. I said similar things myself. I think the "rocket science" part of ksp can be translated very well into the german language.

Edited by Herakleios

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
John FX    1749
14 hours ago, regex said:

Get the next version of Principia.

This is something I am moving towards with ever increasing seriousness.

It seems we are both pretty much on the same page then, except maybe I would have more graphical loveliness than you would want.

I think at this stage Squad should either let us know what sort of plans there are for future development, if any, or let us know the future will be refactoring of the code, hopefully opening up the API, and eliminating as many bugs as possible before mothballing the code and letting mod makers take over.

Not doing either is whack, yo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
klgraham1013    2495
15 hours ago, regex said:

Performance issues for people with lesser systems and possibly for consoles RE: memory usage. Cloud textures I can see, volumetric clouds not really.

Graphical settings menus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Veeltch    1997
Posted (edited)

Just start development of a new game already.

Edited by Veeltch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
juanml82    276

We still don't have stock dV readouts.

 

Just saying...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ok, lets just set aside the bugs and flaws. KSP is a great game, and I am thankful for each and every one of the developers for creating this masterpiece of software. A new game is not what you need. I am on a robotics team and i know that when you build to improve and add on, the old poorly designed segments become more and more of a hindrance until you have to face them and fix them, no matter how much work it takes. That's what the devs are doing now, taking old parts of the game that were not built with the future in mind and improving them. They had to do it at some point, so stop whining and be glad that they're almost done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KerbalSaver    191

I'll just sit here in the optimist's corner. If anyone wants to join me, welcome, we have half-full glasses of ice tea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
razark    2830
31 minutes ago, KerbalSaver said:

I'll just sit here in the optimist's corner. If anyone wants to join me, welcome, we have half-full glasses of ice tea.

Well, in addition to what's become SOP for the propaganda public relations wing, we have seen a massive change in the dev team, with a number of experienced members leaving, so I can't fault people for worrying.

However, we haven't yet seen a release from the new team.  I'd say that it's time to give them a chance and see what they can turn out.  We can always get out the torches and pitchforks after the release, if we need to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
StainX    18

Some suggestions for next update: Performance optimizations, Tweakscale integration, KER integration, Multiplayer, Some more star systems + futuristic engines, Life support (with difficulty settings), Clouds, Wind, Contract improvements,...

Its not that i'm not happy to see what the game has become, love it more than ever, just pointing out that there is still room on top.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kreutzkevic    98
On 4-3-2017 at 4:01 PM, pellinor said:

 

The words exist but their figurative meaning may not be the same. At least in german, "Raketentechnik" is not commonly used as a synonym for "something incredibly complex". When metaphors or jokes are involved it is often more feasible to write new ones than to translate something existing.

Edit: now I think of it I actually remember someone jokingly saying "now I can call myself a rocket scientist" in german. He used the english word because the phrase just does not work as well in german.

Ah, I think I see your problem: you're trying to convey a joke... in German... so yeah...

You know the two shortest entries in the Encyclopedia Britannica are German humor and British food, right? :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
p1t1o    1651

Isn't German the language that most of rocket science was translated from in the first place? :D

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
something    328

Well the Germans got it from the Chinese but then the German publications (and scientists) spread in the western world due to a 'lack of infrastructure'. It is quite common for scientific expressions to transcend into English language and then further into other languages. We commonly use cavity, rampen (to ramp), locken (to lock), carrier,  sideband etc in everyday German lab language when speaking of optical cavities and - you won't believe it - we do speak German then... On the other hand Eigenvector, Eigenvalue are German expressions (eigen meaning 'self-' un that case). Maybe some translator took Eigen for a scientist or whatever. The German variants are Eigenvektor and Eigenwert which literally mean Self-Vector and Self-Value referring to the fact that they are projected onto themselves...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Enceos    1348
21 hours ago, The solid fuel chemist said:

good stuff

Beautifully said!

KSP is built on an engine which evolves every year and is not going anywhere soon, it will offer more and more opportunities to improve the game over time. I've seen some very experienced programmers join the team in the last 2-3 months. I do believe that they're working on removing all the duct tape which stitched the KSP code and replace it with solid parts capable of upgrade, it's about time they did that.

The future is bright, KSP is just too good to get shelved either by the company management or by us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
asmi    117
On 04/03/2017 at 1:04 PM, regex said:

I have zero idea what else Squad could put into this game, it's pretty much feature-complete as far as I'm concerned. Anything else will just be a "watered down mod" or will cause performance issues for some players. Seems like a perfect time to squash the bugs and refactor the game.

There is one feature which was (is) implemented in a mod...well...sorta kinda. I'm referring to robotics and moving parts specifically (like arms, deployable "wings" with antennae/solar arrays, various scientific instruments, etc.). If Squad would implement it so that every robotic action won't spontaneously blow up ship with about 30% chance - I'd be very pleased.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
regex    8869
10 minutes ago, asmi said:

There is one feature which was (is) implemented in a mod...well...sorta kinda. I'm referring to robotics and moving parts specifically (like arms, deployable "wings" with antennae/solar arrays, various scientific instruments, etc.). If Squad would implement it so that every robotic action won't spontaneously blow up ship with about 30% chance - I'd be very pleased.

I think it would end up like how I imagine they'll do delta-V; it'll have none of the features that make Engineer or MechJeb great (local TWR indicators, time of burn, that sort of thing because "it's confusing"). They'd add all the controls to the right-click menu and forget to make them action groupable, and then some modder would have to come along to make sense of it all.

I mean, I suppose it would be stable like you're asking, but I also don't think it'd be any good.

It's also the underlying engine and how things work in the game within that engine; I don't think anyone's going to make something stable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The_Rocketeer    1346
Posted (edited)

More demands for new game concepts and sequels?

You've got in your hands the best videogame in a generation. It's almost like people want a good enough reason not to play it or something...

Edited by The_Rocketeer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Corw    216
On 04.03.2017. at 8:56 AM, Benji said:

 

I'm curious. What is your native language?

Croatian.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mako    141
2 hours ago, The_Rocketeer said:

More demands for new game concepts and sequels?

You've got in your hands the best videogame in a generation. It's almost like people want a good enough reason not to play it or something...

I understand what you're saying, but let me explain why there is a demand for a sequel. KSP as it is right now is fantastic. Certainly there are some improvements that can be made. However, using Unity as it's base engine does mean that there are limits to what KSP can grow into. I'm sure there are arguments to be made about various other engines and their respective pros and cons when compared to Unity, but the truth is none of that matters to KSP. The only way an engine change would happen would be if a new project was started.

The idea of a new project built from the ground up on a more capable (or even custom designed) engine by team of experienced devs using KSP as a proof of concept holds a great amount of appeal to me, and it seems to others as well. To be clear, I don't expect this to happen at all, but I would happily wait the 4+ years of development and pay the standard AAA game $60 price for that game. Knowing what a game like KSP can become, and focusing direction and development with those goals in mind, a game that is built from a more capable beginning could give us a something that holds even more possibilities than we have now. It seems unlikely, but it's nice to dream.

All that said, I am happy with KSP. I just don't think there is too much more room to grow what currently exists. However, I certainly wouldn't be upset if I were proven wrong...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ruedii    100
On 3/3/2017 at 7:28 PM, SQUAD said:
tumblr_inline_om9kh8Tr5r1rr2wit_540.png

Welcome to KSP Weekly, everyone! This week was all about localization and its upcoming pre-release. The amount of effort and work hours that have been put into this project was nothing short of a gargantuan endeavour and our excitement is a testament of watching our efforts come into fruition. But we’re here to talk about everything Kerbal, so without further ado, let’s begin.

Everyone in QA has been incredibly busy checking and rechecking all of the strings that have been converted, as well as making sure the game still behaves as it should. There are so many different ways of playing KSP, and and an equal number of results. There’s even more ways to break KSP to add on top. The localization effort has highlighted this very well. Variations between platforms can mean that some characters don’t render in the same way as others. Screen space has been a big concern. Another special mention is due to the volunteers that have worked tirelessly through this.

For example, one of the most challenging things we had to deal with the localization process was that, originally, the code wasn’t optimized for localization and the logic of the game was intertwined with some explicit words in english. We had to deal with this and many lines of code required some tweaking to allow us to introduce new phrasings and characters, i.e., lots of work.

But the QA team went also through more general bug discovery, confirmation and testing of fixes this week,so you can expect quite a few bug fixes for the upcoming update (you may have learned about some of them if you have been following KSP Weekly in past editions).

On other regards, Blitworks is doing some good progress on the builds we’ve been receiving and testing for the past few weeks, they even added a circular menu for the controls that will make the console’s UI more user friendly. Renowned poet and tester, sal_vager, decided to write a verse to express his experience with the last build he tried:

PS4

My planes soar

Kerbals on the Mun

Saves compressed

Stability test ✓

Having lots of fun

The development team has also been jam-packed with localization bug busting, too. For example, JPLrepo finished refactoring Biomes (did you know there are over 140 planet biomes in KSP and over 40 KSC biomes?), Celestial Bodies, Science System. The devs have had to do a lot of refactoring, this week included messages, PartModules and Contracts, too. Refactoring is the process of changing the code to separate UI display strings from strings used internally in functional code. This is what happens when a piece of software is developed without Localization and then Localization is retro-fitted at a later date.

Developers also did amendments to lots of UI screens and elements to make all the Russian and Spanish fit! As well as fixing some linux bugs, some KSPedia adjustments and the creation of an automated script in python to populate the language prefixes.

Finally we just want to remind you that the Localization Pre-release will take place on March 16th and that to celebrate that launch we are doing a cool contest with some of the best prizes we have given, yet. Learn more here.  

That’s it for this week. Be sure to join us on our official forums, and don’t forget to follow us on Twitter and Facebook.

Happy launchings!


Good work.
Moving everything to proper internationalization files, even for English, should make future string bugfixes a LOT easier.

It's a huge task, so I understand why you waited to do it!  Congrats on having it almost done!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Redneck    228
13 hours ago, Mako said:

All that said, I am happy with KSP. I just don't think there is too much more room to grow what currently exists. However, I certainly wouldn't be upset if I were proven wrong...

oh there is plenty more room to grow and develop ksp. Where squad is concerned though money seems to be at the top of the list of priorities. You can say what you will but since harvester left loose ends were tied up and ksp has been on a downward trend in all areas since. There was hope then the devs left and here we are. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nightmare    18

What you thing they do this for?

Always the paycheck at the end of the month and so the money...

Every other thing comes after that.

Everyone who tries to think of something better in the first place is naive in my oppinion.

If they do not have a paysystem like in WOW where you have to pay a monthly fee for playing,

they only can sell the game once per customer, they have no dlc with which to generate income, so they have to spread to other customers who do not speak read english and have to localice.

They have to generate income or the game is dead and no further development.

Thats the simple truth...

The only thing in question is the communication with the fanbase and what they communicate and that is not at its best at the time now.

In my oppinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kerbart    2875
14 minutes ago, Nightmare said:

What you thing they do this for?
Always the paycheck at the end of the month and so the money...

(....)

Thats the simple truth...
The only thing in question is the communication with the fanbase and what they communicate and that is not at its best at the time now.
In my oppinion.

Oh, you're absolutely right. But not everyone here will get that. The forum crowd will largely be just fine with the English version or they wouldn't be playing it. And then there's the demographic segment of those that don't need to pay the rent and bills themselves, of which I suspect there's also a large segment of those in the forum. If you don't have to pay the bills, you tend to underestimate the value of being able to do so... and hence complain about Squad's "greediness" resulting in a "perverse" desire to "monetize" the game.

Personally if they can find ways to rejuvenate the income stream I'm all for it, even if that means DLC*. Bring on extended KSP development!

 

* To be clear: making existing mods only available after paying money to Squad is not what I consider DLC. I'm talking about content developed by Squad, that enhances the game, without disabling or disqualifying existing mods. Impossible? Maybe, but I'd support Squad earning money that way for a better KSP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now