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I am making a Modpack Website!


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  1. 1. Is this a good idea?



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1 minute ago, sal_vager said:

You make no sense with this comment.

Are you claiming this is your work? Perhaps you can share with us exactly what happened when your modpack was removed.

Yes I am claiming it's my work! You say that it's stolen work because I am a modpack supporter? It wasn't banned, it wasn't removed, you are just making stuff up now.

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Just now, ForumUser said:

So what about the "rare" ones? Just because some modpacks don't do it right doesn't mean that every single modpack should be banned. No wonder news outlets point out that KSP developers are quitting their jobs.

So now you're linking Squad's internal affairs with the amateur modding community, I'm going to have to ask for some support backing this claim.

Every single modpack should not be banned, and I don't think anyone (at least anyone relevant to the matter) believes that. If it was the case, there wouldn't be a debate and modpacks would already be banned. There is a debate because it is indeed unfair to outright ban every modpacks for repackers that are willing to invest some time in their work, but it is also unfair to allow every modpack for modders who will then inevitably see their work stolen and for moderators which will have to do the repackers' work in ensuring their packs are not breaking any rule.
People are trying to find a compromise between the two extremes, or at least a solution that satisfies the most.

Again, it's not "some modpacks" that don't do it right: because it's easier to do it wrong that right, there will always be more doing it wrong than right. Majority wins. Plus, as I already stated somewhere else: as modders are the ones who create original content and have their own work redistributed, their opinion is more valuable.

Quote

You know, 1 to 2 years ago there was no problem with modpacks and modders. What happened? When I joined I saw tons of modpack threads back then

The community evolves, maybe. I can't really answer that because I never noticed modpacks to be that big of a thing in past years.

If I had to say something I'd say it's because KSP is nearing its finished state. There are less releases and modders spend more time making their mods right. They have also acquired more experience doing so and this adds value to the mods they write.

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Just now, ForumUser said:

Yes I am claiming it's my work! You say that it's stolen work because I am a modpack supporter? It wasn't banned, it wasn't removed, you are just making stuff up now.

If you modified an existing work to create a derivative, it is a new work, not a modpack, so why are you so upset?

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1 minute ago, sal_vager said:

If you modified an existing work to create a derivative, it is a new work, not a modpack, so why are you so upset?

I am upset because you say that it's been banned or removed because it's not my fault. You should seriously research more about what happened,

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1 minute ago, ForumUser said:

I am upset because you say that it's been banned or removed because it's not my fault. You should seriously research more about what happened,

Perhaps you can tell us more about this?

On 05/03/2017 at 6:24 PM, ForumUser said:

(Sorry if I seem in a negative state of mind, one modder threatened me in order to take down a repack I made [It was the KAS/KIS/Other Mod I Forgot About That Has To Do With Construction])

 

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Just now, ForumUser said:

I already talked to a moderator about that. It wasn't the planet mod though.

Your planet mod looks like a mod to me, and not a modpack, I see nothing wrong with it, but I'd like to hear about this KIS/KAS thing though, could you tell me about it?

Also, I apologise for saying your mod was banned, that was the notion I had from what you've posted so far.

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Just now, sal_vager said:

Your planet mod looks like a mod to me, and not a modpack, I see nothing wrong with it, but I'd like to hear about this KIS/KAS thing though, could you tell me about it?

Also, I apologise for saying your mod was banned, that was the notion I had from what you've posted so far.

The KIS/KAS mod developers were not angry at me, but there was another mod that did dodgy tactics to remove my modpack, even though he gave me permission to use the mod.

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Just now, ForumUser said:

The KIS/KAS mod developers were not angry at me, but there was another mod that did dodgy tactics to remove my modpack, even though he gave me permission to use the mod.

Do you remember who this modder was? And what was this tactic?

Did Spacedock send you an explanation?

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Just now, sal_vager said:

Do you remember who this modder was? And what was this tactic?

Did Spacedock send you an explanation?

It was on Curseforge, he basically allowed my mod to be in my modpack until I got 100 downloads, then he threatened to sue me.

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1 minute ago, ForumUser said:

It was on Curseforge, he basically allowed my mod to be in my modpack until I got 100 downloads, then he threatened to sue me.

Do you still have your modpack? maybe we can take a look for you.

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Just now, ForumUser said:

It was on my old curseforge account, I wasn't doing anything wrong.

I can't access those, perhaps you would like to make a new pack and release it here, with the licenses and stuff, we can help you.

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16 minutes ago, Galileo said:

curse checks to see if the mods you are uploading are actually yours so I don't know how you would have managed even getting it uploaded. Perhaps I'm wrong? 

Yeah you are wrong.

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Hi there! It's great to see you're so enthusiastic about your project, but when I followed the link I couldn't find any indication that you are encouraging people to keep things legal. On the contrary, the wording appeared to be encouraging software piracy. That means we can't link to it from this forum, sorry. Please PM me if you would like to discuss this.

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Just now, Deddly said:

Hi there! It's great to see you're so enthusiastic about your project, but when I followed the link I couldn't find any indication that you are encouraging people to keep things legal. On the contrary, the wording appeared to be encouraging software piracy. That means we can't link to it from this forum, sorry. Please PM me if you would like to discuss this.

I will keep things legal 'til the end of my days. I will add it in now.

2 minutes ago, Deddly said:

Hi there! It's great to see you're so enthusiastic about your project, but when I followed the link I couldn't find any indication that you are encouraging people to keep things legal. On the contrary, the wording appeared to be encouraging software piracy. That means we can't link to it from this forum, sorry. Please PM me if you would like to discuss this.

Updated it.

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Wouldn't "keeping things legal" mean respecting/ honoring the licensing of the mods or are you just going to ignore that? Especially if the moderators are going to allow you to have a link on these forums. If they allow it and you ignore licensing, then what's the point of this discussion? Same reason I don't support spacedock 

Edited by Galileo
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19 hours ago, ForumUser said:

All I wanted is to help people. I don't understand why games like KSP should ban Modpacks. We are here to enjoy the games, not censor modpack creators just because some developer was crying about his mod getting famous from modpacks, not the mod itself. I am continuing development of the website, being banned or not.

Aside from the ethical people if encouraging others to reap the pride & fame from another mod author's work, the main issue is that it's the mod mod author who ends up with complaints of "why is this not working," "fix your software plz," "fix it, plz," and "fix it"

This happens with ckan, this happens with mod packs, it's not that the author can't handle the "fame," it's thT it's the kind of fame any mod author cN do without. Factor in:

  • the more automated a system is, the less tech savvy users tend to be (a high installation difficulty weeds out those with zero experience)
  • less tech savvy users tend to be a bit more rude and unknowledgeable in their interaction with the mod author ("I've asked about it since last Friday night and it's still not fixed. Why don't you get off your lazy ### and do something about it?!")
  • the same users are not aware that problems occur from "their" choice (often the mod-pack "author") to bundle two mods, sometimes against explicit warnings not to do so, and harras the mod author over something he/she has no control over or explicitly mentioned not to do in the documentation.

This will eventually come to a point where the mod author yells "enough!" and throws down his keyboard in disgust, and stops working on the mod or mods altogether. Which hurts everyone.

none of this is made up, it has happened before, and will happen again. And that's why modpacks, or mandatory ckan entries are not the best idea. Because it hurts the modding landscape to favor a few users who cannot be bothered do do even a fraction of the work the modders did for them.

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Dear @ForumUser, I have reason to believe that you're jumping the gun in proposing to build something for/with the community that the community has very clearly shown that it does not want to partake in. Even if it's just a handful of forum moderators (even the lead moderator) and major actual mod-makers their voices should carry enough weight for you to easily realize whether your ambition is misdirected.

Since you have such a great desire to give to the community (I've seen your community planet pack proposals) please consider finding a fledgling mod that interests you and that you know you have the wisdom or skills to contribute to and ask to join its dev team. Start small and show evidence of your talents by a little well-photoshopped picture or a working and desirable tweak to an existing config. Please give up this modpack website thing because it's only going to upset more people the more you fight for it. Any capable forum-goer who wants to have their GameData folder resemble someone else's has CKAN in arm's reach and the remaining mods not on CKAN are easy enough (and relatively few, I assume) to install manually.

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13 hours ago, sal_vager said:

It was mentioned elsewhere that moderators or admins should access member private messages to determine if permission was given, sorry but no that is not going to happen, your private messages are private.

First: Whoops.  Big Whoops.  Sorry about that.  I had meant to convey they could possibly do that for legal reasons. However, I worded that part very poorly and likely upset many people.  I apologize to any whom I did.  I'll edit that post to clean that up or more likely, remove that staement entirely.

Next:  @ForumUser your modpack website idea is clearly not viewed favourably by many people here.  You have been given many different ideas, and even some encouragement.  Please take a day or two to think seriously about them.  The fact this discussion is now on 2 threads and both are getting frequent (mostly negative) posts, I would take that to heart and think about some of the other options expressed by some of the biggest modders out there. 

Last: Licences are just that. Follow them.  If I want to take a part of a mod or repack and redistribute one that says "No" to that, well, that's that. I would need permission first.   Failing that, the answer is "No".  Period.  If a modder (after being asked) says "No", the answer is still no.

The KSP modders put way too much of their free time into these mods for us to enjoy.  They add something intangible to the experience for the users.  Leave it be. If a mod maker wants to bundle their stuff and or add things like MM or FS, etc (allowed, encouraged and already discussed ad nosium) they can.  Please don't compare a "mod pack" with something like NF or RSS etc.  They are not the same.

Edited by smotheredrun
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17 hours ago, smotheredrun said:

First: Whoops.  Big Whoops.  Sorry about that.  I had meant to convey they could possibly do that for legal reasons. However, I worded that part very poorly and likely upset many people.  I apologize to any whom I did.  I'll edit that post to clean that up or more likely, remove that staement entirely.

Next:  @ForumUser your modpack website idea is clearly not viewed favourably by many people here.  You have been given many different ideas, and even some encouragement.  Please take a day or two to think seriously about them.  The fact this discussion is now on 2 threads and both are getting frequent (mostly negative) posts, I would take that to heart and think about some of the other options expressed by some of the biggest modders out there. 

Last: Licences are just that. Follow them.  If I want to take a part of a mod or repack and redistribute one that says "No" to that, well, that's that. I would need permission first.   Failing that, the answer is "No".  Period.  If a modder (after being asked) says "No", the answer is still no.

The KSP modders put way too much of their free time into these mods for us to enjoy.  They add something intangible to the experience for the users.  Leave it be. If a mod maker wants to bundle their stuff and or add things like MM or FS, etc (allowed, encouraged and already discussed ad nosium) they can.  Please don't compare a "mod pack" with something like NF or RSS etc.  They are not the same.

[Snipped by moderator] I was told that I could use mods in my mod pack until I got even 1% popular

Edited by Deddly
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Kudos to @sal_vager for keeping almost supernaturally polite and professional. 

@ForumUser, you are not coming across as the good guy here. And this comes from someone who has enthusiastically used modpacks in the past for a number of games, so obviously I'm not opposed to them in concept. But really, you need to take a breath, actually look at the complaints being raised, and see if you can come up with actual solutions. Just getting hostile because you think you're under attack will get nothing done. 

Also, if you're going to complain about past events as evidence, please give details instead of vagueposts. It sounds like you're trying to call someone out without actually letting them know, or give their reasoning. 

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22 hours ago, ForumUser said:

It was on Curseforge, he basically allowed my mod to be in my modpack until I got 100 downloads, then he threatened to sue me.

Well, if you had permission, in writing from him, then it was an empty threat.  That being said, it was still not a nice thing to do.

21 hours ago, Kerbart said:

none of this is made up, it has happened before, and will happen again. And that's why modpacks, or mandatory ckan entries are not the best idea. Because it hurts the modding landscape to favor a few users who cannot be bothered do do even a fraction of the work the modders did for them

And as a result of mod author input last summer, CKAN does not allow mods to be added without the authors explicit permission.  It used to, but enough people made a fuss that it was changed. 

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