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juanml82

(OPM) Exploring Sarnus

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I've finally decided to tackle the OPM planets and I have an upcoming window for Sarnus. Which means I'll be exploring a bunch of moons and planets I haven't played in before, so things will go wrong. I'm using several mods, including MRS lite, Mk2 & 3 expansions, MK4, Near Future electrical & propulsion, KSP-I, Kerbal Atomics and I've been begining to try out Ground Construction. I'm certainly not going that far with just stock parts. I'm around the 1,000-1,500 science tier, so no antimatter or warp drives though.

So, as I'm designing the ships and thinking the mission profiles, I wanted to see what the community think about these ideas (and I also get to put them in writing and consider them as I do so):

Regarding comm networks, is Sarnus out of range of the Tracking Station unless I spam antennas? I was thinking about sending a space station including the mobile lab and the 2.5m three kerbal pod, which can remotely control probes if it has two pilots on board. I'm also deploying two relays in polar orbits around Sarnus to cover most of the system, but should I count on those relays reaching Kerbin or am I safer relaying on the space station for remote control?

Is it possible to aerocapture medium to big sized ships on Sarnus? Or would I spin out of control and burn in the atmosphere? I'm not sure using Slate for a gravity slingshot would work, since I'll probably use a faster route to reach Sarnus and I'll end up entering the system in a straight line.

A ground refinery on Eeloo, this includes setting up a construction camp of sorts using Ground Construction. That also means I'll need to deliver several DIY kits and spread them around. I'm thinking about delivering on an Mk3 cargo bay and to use Konstruction to move them around.

For exploring Sarnus, is it reasonable to expect a probe with electric rotors or atomic thermal jets to dive into the atmosphere, get atmospheric data across the Sarnus biomes and then get out of the atmosphere and into an orbit so I can later recover that science? Or should I just send an impactor, transmit the data and sacrifice the probes?

For Hale and Ovok, I'm planning to use a nuclear electric lander I made with NFT parts

For Eeloo and Slate and Tekto, I'll just reuse my standard Duna lander (which is overpowered for Eeloo, but I just send a single ship). That, unfortunately, means aerospikes, which means the tanker(s) I'll deliver (to be built using Ground Construction) will also need to carry oxidizer. So that's at least four resources I'll need to ship around (liquid fuel, oxidizer, liquid hydrogen for the return trip and monoprop. I may just add an argon tank in the space station in the unlikely event the nuclear electric lander runs out of fuel). I may build it on site on Eeloo instead of carrying it all the way to Sarnus.

I was planning to ship a couple of disposable rovers to Eeloo and Slate and use Bon Voyage for harvesting all those biomes, as well as to travel to any interesting place there (if any :P ). Regarding Tekto, I intend to toss a plane with electric propellers there. I'm guessing that if it flies in Kerbin and Eve, it flies in Tekto, right? Also, regarding Tekto's atmosphere, do I need to worry too much about reentry? It has small gravity, which means a slower orbital velocity to begin with, but it is a dense atmosphere.

 

In total, the fleet would include: the space station; a couple of relays; something to survey everything for resources, with focus on Eeloo and maybe Tekto; a nuclear electric lander, a miner, a probe to go inside Sarnus atmosphere, some sort of largish rover with the DIY kits and DIY kits for the heavier lander for the larger moons, a tanker, rovers and planes for the heavier moons as well as the boosters to take them there and a return to Kerbin ship so the space station remains there for later use. Crew should include: 2 scientists + 2 pilots for the space station, 1 engineer and pilot for the mining base (the pilot just in case I loose radio contact with kerbin), 1 scientist for the inner moons, a crew of three for the outer moons (although I could use the same scientist of the inner moons), for a total of 9 kerbonauts.

EDIT: I forgot about engineers for Ground Construction and the GC workshop (everything else is too inefficient) which will probably be the same as the cargo delivering the DIY kits

 

Ideas, suggestions?

Edited by juanml82

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You're plan sounds good to me. I haven't been beyond Dres with a manned mission, so take everything I say with a grain of salt lol

11 hours ago, juanml82 said:

Regarding comm networks, is Sarnus out of range of the Tracking Station unless I spam antennas? I was thinking about sending a space station including the mobile lab and the 2.5m three kerbal pod, which can remotely control probes if it has two pilots on board. I'm also deploying two relays in polar orbits around Sarnus to cover most of the system, but should I count on those relays reaching Kerbin or am I safer relaying on the space station for remote control?

It should be within range, thanks to the boosting that OPM does to the tracking station and the most advanced antenna. A relay would still be good to have control on the far sides of Sarnus and it's moons, although 2 antenna in high polar orbits (one over north and one over south poles, perhaps slightly inclined of the 90* line) should have you covered, I would imagine.

11 hours ago, juanml82 said:

Is it possible to aerocapture medium to big sized ships on Sarnus? Or would I spin out of control and burn in the atmosphere? I'm not sure using Slate for a gravity slingshot would work, since I'll probably use a faster route to reach Sarnus and I'll end up entering the system in a straight line.

........

For exploring Sarnus, is it reasonable to expect a probe with electric rotors or atomic thermal jets to dive into the atmosphere, get atmospheric data across the Sarnus biomes and then get out of the atmosphere and into an orbit so I can later recover that science? Or should I just send an impactor, transmit the data and sacrifice the probes?

I would imagine both of these are possible, just watch for overheating when capturing. If you're coming in in a straight line, you may be going too fast to be able to get to a depth that produces anything meaningful. I would say electric rotors would probably be your best bet for flying around, as you don't have to watch so much on fuel, just your EC generators.

11 hours ago, juanml82 said:

A ground refinery on Eeloo, this includes setting up a construction camp of sorts using Ground Construction. That also means I'll need to deliver several DIY kits and spread them around. I'm thinking about delivering on an Mk3 cargo bay and to use Konstruction to move them around.

Never heard of Ground Construction, but a refueling base would definitely be a plus.

11 hours ago, juanml82 said:

For Eeloo and Slate and Tekto, I'll just reuse my standard Duna lander (which is overpowered for Eeloo, but I just send a single ship). That, unfortunately, means aerospikes, which means the tanker(s) I'll deliver (to be built using Ground Construction) will also need to carry oxidizer. So that's at least four resources I'll need to ship around (liquid fuel, oxidizer, liquid hydrogen for the return trip and monoprop. I may just add an argon tank in the space station in the unlikely event the nuclear electric lander runs out of fuel). I may build it on site on Eeloo instead of carrying it all the way to Sarnus.

Why not use the electric lander for Eeloo also? Or is it too big at that point?

 

All in all, looks fairly good! Good luck and don't forget to post screenshots of your mission when you do! I'm trying to plan a mission to jool, but I still don't have a surface base on Duna/Ike yet :/

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39 minutes ago, HoveringKiller said:

Why not use the electric lander for Eeloo also? Or is it too big at that point?

TWR is 1.66 in Eeloo. Doable, but low. But it may be a moot point - I was thinking about using Ground Construction to build the lander in Eeloo, so it would be taking off from there instead of landing.

 

I've just tried my Duna lander in Tekto in sandbox. It's not going to work, at all. Granted, I took off inclined because I've landed on a hill and was in a 20° something slope, but it tilted to the side worse than a rocket in Kerbin. I'm going to need to something with wings, I think, and maybe even try HOTOL

Which also means I will probably have an easier time by using a different design in Slate. So much for using the same ship over and over.

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I'm also playing with OPM, But I've not venture out of Kerbin SOI yet. I've starting designing the comm sat. I play with no additional relay antenna on ground, only KSC. I've managed to set 3 hi-teck comm sat at 1000km  around Kerbin. Don't forget, OPM sets a *4 modifier to antenna power range.

My calculations set the power coverage at Sarnus between 70 and 80% (and 80 to 91%) when KSC is well placed, if i use high tech antenna around Sarnus. So, I've planned to send 3 RA-100 comm sats on my first window.

Comms will only be an issue with Urlum and Plock. At Urlum, you'll really have contact with DSN and not with RA100 comm network.

I did some calculations with deep space networks, but that's not really as effective as we could suspect. A 350Gm network gives the same Neidon coverage as direct exposure to KSC antennas. and don't work with plock further range. In all cases, you'll loose a lot of science trying to radio it to KSC, so favor direct return. Maybe some multiple deepspace networks could do tyhe trick, but that'll cost a lot of time.

So if you play with multiple DSN antenna at Kerbin, don't bother with deep space network. You only have to adress the lack of comms to Plock and decrease science return when radioed

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I saw your post and started reading some of it. I thought the people on here might enjoy this one as well:
 

 

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20 hours ago, HoveringKiller said:

It should be within range, thanks to the boosting that OPM does to the tracking station and the most advanced antenna.

^ This.

One thing to be aware of is that OPM boosts the power of all antennas by 4x, which IMHO makes them way overpowered for the inner solar system.  If that bugs you, another solution is to add this mod:

...it adds a powerful 1000G antenna, and includes a patch that undoes the tinkering that OPM does.  This will give you a stockalike experience, and then you can use the big honkin' antenna for the outer planets.

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1 hour ago, Snark said:

^ This.

One thing to be aware of is that OPM boosts the power of all antennas by 4x, which IMHO makes them way overpowered for the inner solar system.  If that bugs you, another solution is to add this mod:

...it adds a powerful 1000G antenna, and includes a patch that undoes the tinkering that OPM does.  This will give you a stockalike experience, and then you can use the big honkin' antenna for the outer planets.

Cool. Downloading.

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4 minutes ago, juanml82 said:

Cool. Downloading.

@Snark, cool work! But RT already has an 850Gm dish. Is this one still really necessary (yes, I use OPM) iyo?

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1 hour ago, Calvin_Maclure said:

@Snark, cool work! But RT already has an 850Gm dish. Is this one still really necessary (yes, I use OPM) iyo?

*shrug*

A few things to consider:

  • Do you actually want to run RT?  (that's RemoteTech, for the uninitiated).  For example, I sure don't, now that I have CommNet in the stock game.  I used to like to play RT games, but it was so crashy that I finally had to quit because the instability was taking the fun out of the game for me.  So, JX2Antenna is a much lighter-weight alternative to RemoteTech, which doesn't affect your game other than adding that one part.
  • 1000G > 850G!  Boo yah!  :)
  • I happen to think that the JX2Antenna just looks way cooler.  (And I can say that without blowing my own horn, since it was @steedcrugeon, not me, who did the model.)  Also, I like that it's stack-mounted.  Opens up some ship-design options.

So it basically comes down to personal taste.

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15 minutes ago, Snark said:

*shrug*

A few things to consider:

  • Do you actually want to run RT?  (that's RemoteTech, for the uninitiated).  For example, I sure don't, now that I have CommNet in the stock game.  I used to like to play RT games, but it was so crashy that I finally had to quit because the instability was taking the fun out of the game for me.  So, JX2Antenna is a much lighter-weight alternative to RemoteTech, which doesn't affect your game other than adding that one part.
  • 1000G > 850G!  Boo yah!  :)
  • I happen to think that the JX2Antenna just looks way cooler.  (And I can say that without blowing my own horn, since it was @steedcrugeon, not me, who did the model.)  Also, I like that it's stack-mounted.  Opens up some ship-design options.

So it basically comes down to personal taste.

Yes, I very much want RT (already using it). And yes, that 1000Gm dish does look damn fine. Still, even if 1000>850, if 850 already covers the deep, then... :P
 

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@Snark

Your mod is very nice and fits quite nicely in OPM. I too wasn't too happy with the *4 to relays and antenna as there is no real benefit of setting a deep space network (there is no reall good configuration that's beats the DSN direct emission.

I've only ONE question :

This mod antenna is a regular antenna or a relay ?

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Does the x4 antannae thing still happen with OPM when RT is used?

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1 hour ago, Warzouz said:

This mod antenna is a regular antenna or a relay ?

Hint:  the first sentence in the mod's description gives a clue.  :wink:

(Okay, I'm being a jerk.  Yes, it's a relay.)

1 hour ago, Calvin_Maclure said:

Does the x4 antannae thing still happen with OPM when RT is used?

I've never played OPM + RT together since KSP 1.2 came out, so I don't have any authoritative answer there.  But I'm guessing that the answer is yes, it boosts the tracking station range 8x, but no, it doesn't boost the range of the antennas 4x.  Try it and see, is about all I can tell you.

The good news is, you can have the best of both worlds.  Suppose you want to play with RemoteTech... and you don't want the range boost from OPM... and you also don't want JX2Antenna, for some inexplicable reason.  :wink:

Well, in that case, you can just do this to get exactly what you want:

  1. Get the jx2_OPM.cfg patch file.
    • This is the piece of the JX2Antenna mod that undoes OPM's antenna & DSN tinkering.
    • You can get the file either directly from the link above, or out of the JX2Antenna zip file if you've already downloaded it.
  2. Put that file anywhere in your GameData directory.
  3. Done!

Doing the above will undo all the antenna-range tinkering that OPM does, without bringing the actual JX2 antenna along for the ride.

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