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Blackline

Edit active vessel in VAB

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Wouldn't it be cool to edit an active vessel (that already made its way to a mun orbit) in the VAB? It could cost money or items (like rocketparts) for career mode.

An in-flight editor would be even better, the game pauses, and the vab editor comes in from the left. 

Cheers

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that isn't a good idea. First, how do you build and attach the created parts. Second, In flight is unreasonable, if you want to fix an orbiting vessel, invest in Docking ports, and then get yourself Extraplanetary Launchpads

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It would be a very Kerbal thing to do, to be trying to make repairs/additions up in space, right?

Ideally, I think there should be some kind of cargo vessel you should have to rendezvous with the vessel you want to modify.  And you can only add so many parts as you can fit into the cargo vessel.  (Maybe with some freedoms of restriction on struts, say .. maybe the cargo vessel automatically have 50 struts and a few fuel-lines on board?)

So, if you can get up there with your cargo vessel, and maybe two engineers, who probably have some nice welding equipment with them .. or perhaps there has to be an "assembly workshop" module too .. Then you can enter a version of the VAB that shows your vehicle as it is at the moment, but with a nice slowly rotating space background.  And the engineers float around it and cause sparks to fly in the vicinity of recently added parts as they weld them into place.  (You place them as you normally would .. the engineers are just floating around doing some touch-up work that visually enhances the space-VAB environment.)

It could be quite a cool addition to the game.  Just think of the possibilities with expanding a space station if you can properly attach parts, rather than having to dock modules?  Some interesting vehicles could be assembled up there with this.

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12 hours ago, TKO said:

It would be a very Kerbal thing to do, to be trying to make repairs/additions up in space, right?

Not a good excuse. It would be kerbal to try to approach the ship with actual repair tools via docking. Fixing things with telepathy telekinesis is not kerbal, on the other hand.

Edited by Matuchkin

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32 minutes ago, Matuchkin said:

Not a good excuse. It would be kerbal to try to approach the ship with actual repair tools via docking. Fixing things with telepathy is not kerbal, on the other hand.

Um, wasn't my solution exactly that?  Approaching the ship and making changes to it with a couple of engineers and parts you've brought up with you.  (Which encourages learning orbital rendezvous .. Kerbal bonus!)  I never suggested magically opening the VAB up in space.  You might have got that from @blackline's original post.  My suggestion is opening the VAB *interface* with the correct in-orbit background because, after all, there's going to be nothing more tedious than trying to build by directly controlling an engineer in EVA .. there does have to be a sensible building interface for it to practically work.

There could be risk to it too: want to weld that fuel-tank to the existing fuel-tank with a particularly inexperienced engineer?  Boom!  :)

Not sure where you got the idea of telepathy .. I suspect you mean telekinesis anyway. 

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playing devils advocate here this would make a nice poormans KIS though I would stipulate that the parts catalog should be locked in a way that you can't add any parts you don't already have up there, and overly drastic structural and plumbing changes shouldn't be permitted (not without some sort of late game unlocking mechanism at least) 

This does make a sort of sense when you remember that in real life Nasa has used full scale physical simulations of spacecraft on the ground to plot moves and actions before passing instructions to the astronauts. So this isn't telepathy its plotting out things for kerbals to do themselves off screen.

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I once made a mod that let you do this. You could bring the active vessel into the editor, edit it, and then it would be back wherever it was when you exit with all the changes made. It was for when you forget an antenna/solar panel or want to reduce part count and stability on a station after docking. It had tons of issues, especially with docked vessels. KSP doesn't really like to take a vessel and turn it back into a craft file, but it is possible to do. There's just a lot of holes for bugs to get into. I don't have any intention of trying to bring that back, it was going to be a lot of work to get it to something remotely stable.

With that said, there's always hyperedit (or save file editing, or the debug menu) for those times when you really need to fix a stupid mistake. Or there's KIS and/or KAS if you want kerbals to have to take parts up to fix something (I've replaced antenna that way on more than one occasion...)

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40 minutes ago, passinglurker said:

playing devils advocate here this would make a nice poormans KIS though I would stipulate that the parts catalog should be locked in a way that you can't add any parts you don't already have up there, and overly drastic structural and plumbing changes shouldn't be permitted (not without some sort of late game unlocking mechanism at least) 

This does make a sort of sense when you remember that in real life Nasa has used full scale physical simulations of spacecraft on the ground to plot moves and actions before passing instructions to the astronauts. So this isn't telepathy its plotting out things for kerbals to do themselves off screen.

 

Yes low cpu impact orbital construction would be great use for this and as long as what you edited was in a cargo bay or faring then isn't just mass as far as the physics is concerned.

You could have two modes one for unsheilded payloads that doesn't allow parts to be swapped but just moved around. Where shielded payloads could be have parts swapped as long as the system can balance the mass before payload is deployed.

You could build an OrangeTankSSTO launch the same craft file as often as you need then do a payload swap once in orbit. Consumable tanks would be raided to balance the mass. 

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Make a cargo ship, dock it to the craft in question, then open the in-flight vehicle editor. Require KAS+KIS, but you don't have to control the EVA by yourself, just let the engineer Kerbal with high enough level and proper tools do it. The changes are in real time. Makes perfect symmetry space assembly possible.

That's my idea summed up. Would be perfect as a mod.

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To begin with my deepest and most Humble TL:DR excuse.
This is a bad idea that is worthy to be requested in the mod page sections but not here.

Also understand what your doing here.
You basicaly failed in constructing your vessel properly!

One type of user goes to "Gameplay questions and tutorials" on these forums and asks how to better build their vessels.
Another type of user (you) ask for a game overhauling stock plugin instead of doing what the other group of users do as stated above. Lame I guess!?

Reality check!

In real life, parts are made by many companies (whereas a part may be a wire)
It is then assembled on assembly lines.
It is then tested and re tested and shipped to a vehicle assembly line.
If all that effort creates one object like a fuel tank (something that ksp considers to be 1 part) it has to be installed with hoisting/precision cranes, special equipment all the way up to requiring the aid of machines rather then tools to assemble anything properly and in the right order.
Even then systems are tested, retested, search for crack and surface ripples and even patches of filth.
All this is carried out by thousands of personnel, not just Bob and Jeb!

 I hope I have reality checked and summed up for you. Are you suggesting a stock KIS/KAS or even a floating VAB building for active vessel modifcation?
 

Where is the logic in this anyway? The source of all resources is down to Earth.
So why would you want to launch the dead weight of a construction facility and scrap parts, tools and the whole shebang to low orbit?


Why do that if you can just NOT do that and make sure you build your vessel properly to begin with.
If you build your vessel properly to begin with, it doesn't require to be modified with additional parts once it's active.

And you shouldn't be able to add tanks and engines to a vessel with a single engineer anyway. Regardless of his crew level (whereby I like to comment to remove the leveling system alltogether)
First of all he can't do that (or he shouldn't if you want to have a smudge of realism left over)
And you would need a crew of (xx) if not (xxx) to pull it off. Atleast safely and realisticaly that is.
Then, lacking the proper facilities in space theres a good chance one error will create a giant space KABOOM!
But if this idea is supposed to be made possible a floating VAB is exactly what you will need in space.
Because anything less will not supply the equipment to do any tweaks whatsoever.
Just having a GUI in orbit is even more unrealistic compared to the floating VAB idea.

KIS/KAS Is also unrealistic. Kerbals don't carry that much around, nor do they 1 click or 1 click hold reattach a giant container to anything they weld it to.
This is why KIS and KAS are mods, and not stock.

But most importantly it would be a waste to send a repair facility to orbit in the first place when ksp spacetravel is much cheaper if you just build your vessel properly to begin with.
I hereby lending my effort and show my willingness to contribute if the topic starter simply asks how to improve his vessel instead of asking for a bag of magic orbital construction tricks.

In light of what is being suggested I must direct the topic starter to the game "space engineers" in case he doesn't know about it yet.
A perfect game to do what your looking for.
I'm sorry your idea doesn't fit into the realms of KSP. It just doesn't, I'm sorry.
 

 

Edited by Razorforce7

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That sort of defeats the purpose of KSP, doesn't it? If you don't design your ship properly, then you have to revert to VAB. At least that KSP is usually merciful enough to let you do that (Excluding Hard Mode and other special cases.) And besides, the only mods that you need to edit your craft mid-flight are the KAS/KIS mods.Just send down a resupply craft with the parts your ship needs to rendezvous with the ship in need, then get a Kerbal to do the dirty work.

Edited by TopHeavy11

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Ok, I dont see where I mentioned a wrong built vessel. You hopped on the wrong train here. But thanks for the time you spend with this topic.

I am talking more of a nice, vab-like GUI for when I dock my ssto with xx cargo and want to EXTEND my space station (not attach a forgotten antenna or engine...). Imagine time moves on, and my old solar panels from 10 years ago need to be replaced by some shiny new ones. Why not send a craft to the space station with some new equipment onboard, open up the vab-like GUI and do the replacement. No magic here, in fact thats how its done in reality ;-) (not by GUI of course, but with a toolchain that is well abstracted by such a GUI)

Kis/kas is nice, but did you ever try to attach more than an antenna? Maybe with proper symmetry, angle snap etc this would come close to what id expect.

I can not imagine, that it would be hard for suad to enable the vab editor galaxy-wide. Just pause the game, convert the vessel to a temp craft file, edit it (of course with some kerbals flying around in the background, welding stuff and creating sparks etc) and unpause again with the new vessel in Space.

Fuel and all the required material would be needed to be hauled in orbit by hand ofc.

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I support the idea of repairing outside of the VAB in a similar manner that KIS allows (try the mod, you cant quite VAB edit and it has its share of restrictions, but you can attach and move around parts on a vessel in orbit/on another planet).  Actually KIS (or at least the edit craft feature of KIS) would be great to have stock.  That would really make it more immersive then right now, since it is very difficult if not impossible to fix a ship after it was damaged in battle despite having lots of parts leftover from whatever you just vaporized during battle.

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On 4/3/2017 at 2:12 PM, Blackline said:

Wouldn't it be cool to edit an active vessel (that already made its way to a mun orbit) -snip- It could cost money or items (like rocketparts) for career mode.

 

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6 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

 

I know of all the epl, mks and ose's out there, but they all lack (and could greatly benefit from) a vab-style editor GUI.

Instead of choosing a subassembly from the EPL GUI, build it right there! No more tedious switching from mun surface launchpad -> space center -> vab -> building vessel and save it -> back to space center -> tracking station -> mun... And realizing : Oh I forgot a solar panel -> back to space center... 

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8 minutes ago, Blackline said:

I know of all the epl, mks and ose's out there, but they all lack (and could greatly benefit from) a vab-style editor GUI.

Instead of choosing a subassembly from the EPL GUI, build it right there! No more tedious switching from mun surface launchpad -> space center -> vab -> building vessel and save it -> back to space center -> tracking station -> mun... And realizing : Oh I forgot a solar panel -> back to space center... 

Now that's an idea seriously worthy of Squad's attention. One-click VAB access in order merely to create or update a vessel's design.

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