TiktaalikDreaming

[1.3] Orion Drive TD Edition

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Continued from 

 which is really continued from http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/28428-Orion-aka-Ol-Boom-boom

I'm calling this Komplete (until it's not).

This is basically a continuation of Nyrath's original Orion drive mod.  The engine's been split up into different parts, basically so you can have pulse units loaded without the add-on magazines.  Everything has been remodelled and reworked, but the plugin that drives the whole thing is basically the same beast as Nyrath's work.

It's licensed via the standard MIT license, as per the original license file included in the original work.

The cast of contributors is growing.  

To get this up and running in 1.2 @FreeThinker and @HebaruSan helped a lot.  Which is to say, those two made it work.  All I've done is tweak atmosphere effects and similar things.  Prior to 1.2 it was a cast from what I shall call "before my time", but clearly involved @nyrath and a few others, the cerebrate/Alistair Young who obviously cleaned up and githubbed the code at some point (not sure if that's the forum's @Cerebrate or not) and anyone else who contributed over the years that I'm unaware of.  To all of you, I thank you.  Let me know if you're ever in Brisbane Qld, I'll buy you a drink.

Anyway, after all that, this is an Orion drive, not an Orion capsule.  It's a drive first envisioned by Stanislaus Ulam, and developed from some basic ideas into a well engineered concept by a team at General Atomics with Freeman Dyson (Mr Dyson Sphere, not Mr Vacuum Cleaner).  As a first order approximation, it's a system for propelling a craft by firing nukes out the back.  That's obviously not a good idea generally, so there's a huge metal plate on some long shock-absorbers involved, and changes to the nukes themselves to make it all work.  But that's the basics.

As did @nyrath, my primary reference for this was Scott Lowther's http://www.up-ship.com/eAPR/ev1n5.htm

Many other sources of information were referenced as well, most of which can be found on @nyrath's website http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/enginelist.php#id--Pulse--Orion

https://web.archive.org/web/20070704104944/http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19770085619_1977085619.pdf contains original unclassified source info

Download: https://spacedock.info/mod/149/Orion TD Edition

And, pics or it didn't happen;

A quick user guide.

Orion Craft Building tip 1.  You don't have enough RCS, add more.  Orions are HEAVY.  While regular rockets are doing their damnedest to strip weight off, extra weight on Orions just smooths the ride.  This is great, except for RCS.

Now, to get this mod to work, you need 2 things.  A pusher plate (engine) and some bombs.  Any arrangement will work, but there's the "correct" arrangement or things that will look a bit silly.  The way it's intended to go together is an engine on the bottom, then some loader floors above that.  Using the matching size of course.  The 86 foot pusher plate fits all it's gases and oils in quite low, so you really need a few floors to cover the suspension shrouds.  

On top of the loader floors, you should add a payload interface.  On the 10m (actually 7.8m in game) the choice of size primarily affects how many external magazines you can add in the frame, and how much 2.5m parts you'll need to stack before you're past the framework.  The 80foot payload interfaces are basically the same, but one has a fairing.

Then there's the upper stages, and if needed extra magazines of bomb.  Generally, with the 86foot Orions, I just use the loader floors, as there's quite a large number of pulse units per floor.  And if it's reasonably heavy, you'll mostly just be using the 1.4kt yield and upwards.  But the loader floors on the 10m only have 138 units each, so I usually stack some more up.

So, super quick craft build.

You'll need a pod, some mono and RCS.  Preferably all 2.5m, as the small Orion joins with 2.5m

zgfj9Yv.png

Then, attach a payload interface,

vnZIrA7.png

A loader floor or more;

Rx6C4FQ.png

Then, an engine AKA pusher plate,

2CHooyA.png

Note, you can stack up external stackable magazines and they don't need to match the yield on the loader floors.  In fact, unless you have too few of that yield, you're better off using those external magazines to add variety;

kP98TG5.png

And then add some more RCS. :D

 

NOTE: The pulse yield, aka how much push you get, is highly dependent on atmospheric density.  In the opposite way to a rocket.  The "thrust" at sea level is roughly 12 times what it is in a vacuum.  So, those different yields will come in handy as you travel upwards.  To change what yield units you're using, right click the engine to bring up the interface.  "Kill" means stop loading those pulse units.  "Start" means start using those.  Usually all but one yield should be Killed with only one Started.  Or you'll get uneven pulses.  Start small. :D

Edited by TiktaalikDreaming
add a user guide of sorts

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Finally it is about time! I hope you continue in it original conception in creating a realistic experience and limit any gamification to a minimum.

Edited by FreeThinker

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It's great to see this continuing (and I need to go install those updated textures!). For those who might not know, one of the reasons this mod is exciting is because @nyrath is the proprietor of the Atomic Rockets web site, which explains all sorts of space technologies (propulsion and beyond) using real world and science fiction examples. It's a great resource if you need to know the specific impulse of some obscure engine that you only just heard about. The KSP community is interested in so many of the same things, so it just makes sense to keep this connection alive.

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Should we report issues here, on Github, or somewhere else? I just had a crash, and I can supply KSP.log, Player.log, the craft file, and the save file.

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11 minutes ago, HebaruSan said:

Should we report issues here, on Github, or somewhere else? I just had a crash, and I can supply KSP.log, Player.log, the craft file, and the save file.

That's a damned good question.  I'd say here.  At least I get notifications when there's posts here.  I do get github notifications, but because I've linked myself to the netkan github, I get so many they go off to a folder of their own that I mostly ignore.  :-)

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13 minutes ago, TiktaalikDreaming said:

That's a damned good question.  I'd say here.  At least I get notifications when there's posts here.  I do get github notifications, but because I've linked myself to the netkan github, I get so many they go off to a folder of their own that I mostly ignore.  :-)

OK, cool.

Mods installed
  • This one
  • KER
  • Module Manager
  • Scatterer-sunflare (missed it when I was uninstalling stuff en masse)
    EDIT: Nevermind, that's just CKAN being confused because I accidentally uninstalled it by removing the folder. It was not actually installed at the time of this crash.
Log files and craft https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1uGLwvS6hf6OTEza0pLNkE4MTg
Save file https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1uGLwvS6hf6UDRNdEdOTVd5Qms
Steps
  1. Load the craft in the VAB
  2. Click the green Launch button
  3. Max throttle (mine did this via the setting, not manually)
  4. Press space
  5. Wait through a few booms (around 8?)
  6. Crash

The log shows a bunch of NaNs after launch, which seem to happen while it's processing the destruction of other craft. That's why the save file is important; somebody parked a bunch of planes outside the SPH, and they don't seem to be Orion-rated. :)

Edited by HebaruSan

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1 hour ago, HebaruSan said:

OK, cool.

Mods installed
  • This one
  • KER
  • Module Manager
  • Scatterer-sunflare (missed it when I was uninstalling stuff en masse)
    EDIT: Nevermind, that's just CKAN being confused because I accidentally uninstalled it by removing the folder. It was not actually installed at the time of this crash.
Log files and craft https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1uGLwvS6hf6OTEza0pLNkE4MTg
Save file https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1uGLwvS6hf6UDRNdEdOTVd5Qms
Steps
  1. Load the craft in the VAB
  2. Click the green Launch button
  3. Max throttle (mine did this via the setting, not manually)
  4. Press space
  5. Wait through a few booms (around 8?)
  6. Crash

The log shows a bunch of NaNs after launch, which seem to happen while it's processing the destruction of other craft. That's why the save file is important; somebody parked a bunch of planes outside the SPH, and they don't seem to be Orion-rated. :)

That it does.  I do like "recalculated orbit for Mark2Cockpit (24th Special Tactics F-24): the Sun ( UT: 32420677.6139179 )"  That's some serious deltaV applied to that cockpit.

I think what's happening is passing a limit on the numbers for debri.  I tried recreating it.  Just a basic launch first, but I didn't get destructions happening, so I then tried a semi-controlled hover and got the craft bounced around, broken up, etc.  But I didn't get the error.  The plugin has two damage systems though, so I wondered if you'd managed to get into the destroy zone rather than damage.  So I actually put wheels on an orion and drove it round, parked it cheeks towards the debri, and fired the engine.  Still couldn't replicate it.  

So, it's possible the unity player for linux is doing something daft with large numbers (or the other way around) that the windows one isn't.  But I can see the apparent issue in the logs.  And I have an old dodgy laptop running ubuntu that's about to get it's first Orion mod update in a while.  I'm thinking it might need some max limits put on forces applied to things.  Maybe, if it comes close to whatever the limit is, the code can just use the destroy sequence instead.  I think the "damage" effect applies a force.  And if the craft is small, said force is going to escalate badly.

 

 

ahhhhhhhh

Destroy code happens after damage code.  So, it's entirely possible the NaN errors happened even though the parts would be destroyed.  And, it does look like the explosion forces are applied using base Unity code, ala "attachedRigidbody.AddExplosionForce".

I'm going to flip those bits of code around.  No point accelerating parts to light speed just to destroy them later.  Do some rebuild and see if I can replicate on the dodgy laptop, so I can confirm if the "fix" is a fix.

Edited by TiktaalikDreaming
updatey

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Quote

And I have an old dodgy laptop running ubuntu that's about to get it's first Orion mod update in a while.

And I have an old dodgy laptop running Ubuntu that I wiped that I'm reinstalling steam and then KSP and then some mods on.  :/

Installed.  Took less time to install everything than the time it's taken so far to start KSP.   Tis an OLD laptop.  :-)

OK, well, the old laptop was capable of "running" KSP once upon a time (with all the options turned down and an expectation of frame rates in the units per second when lucky), but either the updated OS's extra appetite or updates to KSP since I last tried (um, many moons ago), it will no longer run, even with no mods and all the options off.

BUT, a VM with 1/8th of my desktop resources is getting there.

Edited by TiktaalikDreaming

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2 minutes ago, CarnageINC said:

@TiktaalikDreaming, I'm I reading this correctly, is this mod replacing TD Industries Orion bits and Orion aka ol boom boom into one mod?  Only asking so I can tidy up the libraries.

No.

There never was a separate thread for this mod, but it is an alternative to "Orion aka Ol' Boom Boom".  It uses more texture memory, has more polygons, and more parts, so I'm considering it a high rez substitute for Nyrath's original.  I'll keep maintaining the original, as it uses the same code.  When I rerelease the bits mod it will be aimed at joining to the top of this one, not Nyrath's.

One thing I should have mentioned earlier, I have not been able to get both this and Nyrath's edition working at the same time.  I had thought it was just capping out a maximum number of pulse unit types, but there's something else going on as well.  So this is essentially incompatible with the original, and vice versa.

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2 minutes ago, TiktaalikDreaming said:

No.

There never was a separate thread for this mod, but it is an alternative to "Orion aka Ol' Boom Boom".  It uses more texture memory, has more polygons, and more parts, so I'm considering it a high rez substitute for Nyrath's original.  I'll keep maintaining the original, as it uses the same code.  When I rerelease the bits mod it will be aimed at joining to the top of this one, not Nyrath's.

One thing I should have mentioned earlier, I have not been able to get both this and Nyrath's edition working at the same time.  I had thought it was just capping out a maximum number of pulse unit types, but there's something else going on as well.  So this is essentially incompatible with the original, and vice versa.

Ah, okay.  Thank you for the clarification on that!  I'll try to keep my eye out for the merger.

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On 4/15/2017 at 7:06 AM, HebaruSan said:

The log shows a bunch of NaNs after launch, which seem to happen while it's processing the destruction of other craft. That's why the save file is important; somebody parked a bunch of planes outside the SPH, and they don't seem to be Orion-rated. :)

Can you try replacing the dll with https://www.dropbox.com/s/l7amsdhhrbe31bl/USAFOrion.zip?dl=0

My mad schemes to replicate the issue have failed so far, and if I look at KSP at 0.5FPS any further I'll get seasick.  It turns out it runs really badly in a VM.

This is a quick test to see if switching the destroy and damage code around will be enough to fix it.  If not, then I might have to add a second set of destroy code between the two to catch small craft (and after they've been broken into bits, something like an antennae is a very small craft) and destroy them out to the range of the damage.

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23 minutes ago, TiktaalikDreaming said:

Can you try replacing the dll with https://www.dropbox.com/s/l7amsdhhrbe31bl/USAFOrion.zip?dl=0

My mad schemes to replicate the issue have failed so far, and if I look at KSP at 0.5FPS any further I'll get seasick.  It turns out it runs really badly in a VM.

This is a quick test to see if switching the destroy and damage code around will be enough to fix it.  If not, then I might have to add a second set of destroy code between the two to catch small craft (and after they've been broken into bits, something like an antennae is a very small craft) and destroy them out to the range of the damage.

So far so good. With that DLL, I can launch my ship in that save file, and there are no NaNs and no crash. I can see the planes exploding on the ground, and the log has a bunch of "Exploded!!" messages regarding them. I tried it a few times and it was consistent.

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Just now, HebaruSan said:

So far so good. With that DLL, I can launch my ship in that save file, and there are no NaNs and no crash. I can see the planes exploding on the ground, and the log has a bunch of "Exploded!!" messages regarding them. I tried it a few times and it was consistent.

Awesome.  :cool:

I'll pack it up and update the mod.

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7 hours ago, VaPaL said:

@TiktaalikDreaming Hey, Kottabos just made a review!
 

 

Yep. And that's why I hurriedly added a bit of user guide this morning. 

After years I did forget that not everyone knows how the Orion drive worked. 

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I've been looking at adding some little known booster rocket in at the right scale to loft the 10m Orion.  

So far, nothing has textures, and I do need to redo the engine mesh.  I also think I'll play around with the different engine specs.  The one I used for testing was the F1 from Apollo up-to-13.  After that they got a small boost in thrust.  And Rocketdyne worked on a F-1a and F-1b, neither of which ever flew, but probably more closely model the expected performance for a later than Apollo Orion lofting.  I mention this as lofting an Orion up to 6.5k before the fuel cuts out isn't necessarily fulfilling the goals of lofting.

Oh, and I haven't done the little winglets yet, they have to be separate parts due to how KSP aero works

I made an album so I can update the pics without extra posts here.  It is after all very secondary to the primary mod

 

Edited by TiktaalikDreaming
album

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OK, updated to include the lofting rocket.  The engine still needs work.  It's basically still a NASA 3D resource chopped off the bottom of their Saturn V stage 1 for 3D printing, so it's a bit mangled.  The other parts are not sourced from the NASA 3D things.  It's very hard to work with models saved for 3D printing, so the Fuel tank, fins, etc are all new meshes.  Also, the 3D printing model was absurdly high polygon because 3D printers don't do normal maps.

Also added a decoupler suitable for the 10m Orion and "fairing" clamps.  But they're not properly textured yet (just using a semi-random metal texture).

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11 hours ago, TiktaalikDreaming said:

OK, updated to include the lofting rocket.  The engine still needs work.  It's basically still a NASA 3D resource chopped off the bottom of their Saturn V stage 1 for 3D printing, so it's a bit mangled.  The other parts are not sourced from the NASA 3D things.  It's very hard to work with models saved for 3D printing, so the Fuel tank, fins, etc are all new meshes.  Also, the 3D printing model was absurdly high polygon because 3D printers don't do normal maps.

Also added a decoupler suitable for the 10m Orion and "fairing" clamps.  But they're not properly textured yet (just using a semi-random metal texture).

And completely forgot to update the Orions.  The update I put in to add little bits of text suggesting the 86-foot Orion needs more loader floors, for the top of the suspension shrouds, was forgot.  It's included in the 1.0.3 update that I just uploaded.  Had that done ages back.  Should have updated my mod build version back then.  :-(

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hey just a question about career mode, I was wondering which node in tech tree it would appear in in CTT (and the normal tree as well) I can't seem to find it but it is around in sandbox

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6 hours ago, Kertech said:

hey just a question about career mode, I was wondering which node in tech tree it would appear in in CTT (and the normal tree as well) I can't seem to find it but it is around in sandbox

I honestly have no idea.  I'll have to look into that.  Also, many costs are probably completely wrong.

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On 5/2/2017 at 5:00 AM, Kertech said:

hey just a question about career mode, I was wondering which node in tech tree it would appear in in CTT (and the normal tree as well) I can't seem to find it but it is around in sandbox

Well, that's well spotted.  There is no place for them, because the main parts actually pre-date career mode, and as I'm usually in sandbox mode for testing, I never noticed.  They have no TechRequired entry.  At all.  So, in career, they're never going to show up.

But now that you've mentioned it, they will be coming to a node near you soon!  Probably with an included CTT MM patch.  Possibly with a patch for CTT to create suitable nodes.  I'll need to check where best to put this stuff.  I can't remember seeing a "nuclear weapon blast shaping and miniaturization" node.  :wink:

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51 minutes ago, TiktaalikDreaming said:

Well, that's well spotted.  There is no place for them, because the main parts actually pre-date career mode, and as I'm usually in sandbox mode for testing, I never noticed.  They have no TechRequired entry.  At all.  So, in career, they're never going to show up.

But now that you've mentioned it, they will be coming to a node near you soon!  Probably with an included CTT MM patch.  Possibly with a patch for CTT to create suitable nodes.  I'll need to check where best to put this stuff.  I can't remember seeing a "nuclear weapon blast shaping and miniaturization" node.  :wink:

well as an avid nuclear explosion fan, the USI orion stuff ((in CTT) is in the "high efficiency nuclear propulsion" node, though really I feel it should be one further along in the experimental nuclear propulsion node (or split accross two different ones with different yield nukes for different nodes. As for regular tech I have no idea!

 

Glad to know I wasn't going mad though, I've been playing hunt the part for a while now!!

Edited by Kertech

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Yeah, the problem with sticking it in the traditional nodes, is it's not really related to nuclear thermal as for how the propulsion works.  And another issue is that a lot of the research that made it possible was weapons research, not vehicle.  It's very tempting to make it's own node (or two actually, one for the suspension systems, and one for the nukes).  I've never messed with the tech trees though.  Still, doesn't look disastrously hard.

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Played arround a bit with Orion drive,  they allow the construction of SSTI (Single Statge To interstellar)

Xtt1s5H.jpg

The Stellerator fits realy well with the Orion, added a few Static radiators, Fusion Pellet tanks, Magnetic nozzles and few Arcjet RCS for maneuvering.

 

Edited by FreeThinker

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