KSP Weekly: A Titan’s flyby and making history!

[Daniel Prates]

1 hour ago, klgraham1013 said:

Unfortunately, not.

Oh this is indeed too bad.

Not having the mission builder integrated into the career mode, makes it only a sort-of 'single-mission' generator, which, although kinda cool, is little more then a tool for players to give themselves challenges. This is already possible, without a in-game tool - it suffices to check the many 'challenges' the community has  to offer. A single mission builder that is not integrated into career is just a way to either bureaucratize sandbox mode, or bureaucratize community challenges. 

How's  that an improvement then?

 

[StrandedonEarth]

33 minutes ago, Daniel Prates said:

How's  that an improvement then?

Trust us, it just is. Here, have some Kool-Aid, it's yummy. 

[klgraham1013]

1 hour ago, Daniel Prates said:

bureaucratize community challenges

Basically this.

[regex]

1 hour ago, klgraham1013 said:

Basically this.

Download the latest Kommunity Khallenge!

 

Yeah, no thanks.

[Daniel Prates]

I'm amazed [shaking my head in disbelief] that the next great feature of KSP will not be available for use in 90% of the game's scope, namely, career/science modes. What is left is that i will be able to plant that flag in Laythe not because I wanted to, but because I wanted to and created a bureaucratic stand-alone mission with said aim. And when the flag was planted, it checked 'done' in a mission scripted by myself, to myself.

Hurrah!

 

 

[HebaruSan]

5 minutes ago, Daniel Prates said:

I'm amazed [shaking my head in disbelief] that the next great feature of KSP will not be available for use in 90% of the game's scope, namely, career/science modes.

It's not a contract generator. That's not the same as it not being available in career mode.

[DoktorFrogg]

Great job with the Vostok model! I've always thought the Russian spacecraft bits had an artistic quality to them that the Americans lacked. It's exciting to see these make it into stock!

[cfds]

15 minutes ago, DoktorFrogg said:

It's exciting to see these make it into stock!

Well, they won't...

[klgraham1013]

1 hour ago, HebaruSan said:

It's not a contract generator. That's not the same as it not being available in career mode.

You're not wrong, but the way JPLRepo responded in the post I had previously quoted from makes it seem as though it is not in career mode.

Edited April 24, 2017 by klgraham1013

[HebaruSan]

27 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

You're not wrong, but the way JPLRepo responded in the post I had previously quoted from makes it seem as though it is not in career mode.

Hmm, here's that post:

On 4/4/2017 at 9:20 PM, JPLRepo said:

Not sure what you are basing that on. I didn't see @nightingale say that at all, and yes he left Squad back in Jan? Mission Builder is not Contract Configurator. Nor does it generate or use contracts.

Well the first part is close but not exactly correct, as it was explained in the KSP Weekly's. But nowhere did anyone say anything about it adding contracts? So not sure where you sourced that info from.

The only thing this says unambiguously is that Mission Builder is not contract-related. The words "career," "sandbox," "science," and "mode" are not mentioned. I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

[klgraham1013]

1 hour ago, HebaruSan said:

The only thing this says unambiguously is that Mission Builder is not contract-related. The words "career," "sandbox," "science," and "mode" are not mentioned. I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

Merely reading between the lines as the word "contracts" would be the term used in relation to career mode and the desired mission creator we're talking about.  Why would you separate the two within career mode?  If it were custom contracts, wouldn't they call it as such, instead of mission builder?

They seem to be making an effort to separate mission from contract.

Edited April 24, 2017 by klgraham1013

[HebaruSan]

4 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

Merely reading between the lines as the word "contracts" would be term used in relation to career mode and the desired mission creator we're talking about.

Contracts only pertain to career mode, but there's more to career mode than just contracts. For example, Kerbal XP also only works in career mode, and it doesn't relate to contracts at all (IIRC, correct if wrong). Just because something doesn't involve contracts, does not therefore mean it will not be available in career mode.

4 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

Why would you separate the two within career mode?

Because you want to create something that plays differently from the contracts the game already has. Because you want your new project to be compatible with all three game modes. Because you're not satisfied with the way contracts work and have not found a way to fix them. I can imagine any number of reasons, but even if I couldn't, that doesn't mean SQUAD can't.

4 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

 If it were custom contracts, wouldn't they call it as such, instead of mission builder?

It's definitely not custom contracts. They've been extremely clear about that (and little else).

[Daniel Prates]

5 hours ago, HebaruSan said:

It's not a contract generator. That's not the same as it not being available in career mode.

Granted. And that has been said above already. The thing is that it could be. And probably should.

[klgraham1013]

2 hours ago, HebaruSan said:

snip

I hope you're right.  I would love to guide my Kerbal Space Program.  It's what I've wanted since career mode was announced.  I'm just doubtful it's the case.

[Red Iron Crown]

7 hours ago, Daniel Prates said:

I'm amazed [shaking my head in disbelief] that the next great feature of KSP will not be available for use in 90% of the game's scope, namely, career/science modes.

Don't assume that the way you play is the way everyone plays. I would say 90%+ of my KSP time is in sandbox, and I am sure there are other players like me. Some features get added to the game that don't appeal to everyone, not being part of the group to which they do appeal does not invalidate them.

[0111narwhalz]

Let us hope that the API is open enough to permit integration into modes of gameplay disparate from the original intended usecase.

[XLjedi]

I'm content to wait and see what's in the new update to improve/enhance gameplay in terms of the mission editor. 

Have to admit though, the updates on localization (although I'm sure important to the target audience) are about as exciting as weekly updates on congress trying to fix Obamacare.  It's basically something that has to get done so we can move on to better things.  Yes, very selfish of me to say... I know...  I know...

Got any new robotic parts?

Edited April 25, 2017 by XLjedi

[regex]

4 hours ago, HebaruSan said:

For example, Kerbal XP also only works in career mode, and it doesn't relate to contracts at all (IIRC, correct if wrong).

All game modes (pretty sure, I can use it in Science mode), depends on save settings.

[HebaruSan]

22 minutes ago, regex said:

All game modes (pretty sure, I can use it in Science mode), depends on save settings.

Hmm, the wiki says:

Quote

The Experience system works only in Career mode; in Sandbox and Science modes there are no restrictions on abilities, all kerbals are top level.

Does it interact with contracts, though? E.g., a contract to advance a Kerbal to a particular level, or have a Kerbal of a particular level on board when placing a station? That's what I was less sure of.

[regex]

24 minutes ago, HebaruSan said:

Hmm, the wiki says:

Then the wiki is behind. I just started a new sandbox save in 1.2.2 and was able to use the advanced options to enable Kerbal experience and immediate leveling. When the save initially loaded I confirmed that the starting four were, indeed, at 0 experience in the astronaut complex.

Quote

Does it interact with contracts, though? E.g., a contract to advance a Kerbal to a particular level, or have a Kerbal of a particular level on board when placing a station? That's what I was less sure of.

Not that I know of.

Edited April 25, 2017 by regex

[Pthigrivi]

On 4/23/2017 at 9:39 PM, Daniel Prates said:

Is the mission builder a feature that is going to be available in carreer mode? If not, please consider it. I would love to make science/money on missions and goals I have set up for myself, instead of relying only on the missions automatically generated. Some of them are good, but some come in unconvenient times and in a bad order.

Shouldnt be a hard feature to tailor into the game! You click and drag the mission specs, and the harder they are, more money is generated.

I like this idea long-term, but how exactly could it know how 'hard' a mission is?

Edited April 25, 2017 by Pthigrivi

[XLjedi]

26 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said:

I like this idea long-term, but how exactly could it know how 'hard' a mission is?

Perhaps a function of optimal delta-V required?

[Gordon Fecyk]

On ‎4‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 9:31 AM, monophonic said:

Hey, the runway seams are fixed too! So... what to use as bowling pins?

Spoiler

 

Stock parts, that's what.

[Daniel Prates]

2 hours ago, Pthigrivi said:

I like this idea long-term, but how exactly could it know how 'hard' a mission is?

Well the game already does this, more or less. By bodies. The farther the body, the more it pays. Maybe on the mission customization,  you could start by selecting the target body. All bodies would pay a fixed ammout for the simplest of misisons (flyby, perhaps). Then changing or adding goals would pass the value by a multiplier.

So assume I am creating a mun mission. I would select "mun". Ok, the mission already is "do a flyby by mun" and pays 10.000 (for instance). If the "land" goal has a multiplier of 1.5x (again, for instance), when I change goals the prize automatically goes to 15.000 and so on. In that logic, instead of changing, I could be adding goals. So suppose I added both "flyby" and "land". It pays 25.000. When I am good and ready, I click "genetate mission" and voilá, a 25.000 prize for a mun flyby plus landing has just appeared in mission control. In my mind, adittional buttons would tweak deadlines, science gathering etc.

This is how I envisioned a career-oriented mission builder. It seems like a reasonably easy thing to implement, since the basic interface is already under development (albeit for another purpose). I quite frankly cant understand all the resistance to the idea that I've seen here. Why not?!?!

[Pthigrivi]

1 hour ago, Daniel Prates said:

Well the game already does this, more or less. By bodies. The farther the body, the more it pays. Maybe on the mission customization,  you could start by selecting the target body. All bodies would pay a fixed ammout for the simplest of misisons (flyby, perhaps). Then changing or adding goals would pass the value by a multiplier.

So assume I am creating a mun mission. I would select "mun". Ok, the mission already is "do a flyby by mun" and pays 10.000 (for instance). If the "land" goal has a multiplier of 1.5x (again, for instance), when I change goals the prize automatically goes to 15.000 and so on. In that logic, instead of changing, I could be adding goals. So suppose I added both "flyby" and "land". It pays 25.000. When I am good and ready, I click "genetate mission" and voilá, a 25.000 prize for a mun flyby plus landing has just appeared in mission control. In my mind, adittional buttons would tweak deadlines, science gathering etc.

This is how I envisioned a career-oriented mission builder. It seems like a reasonably easy thing to implement, since the basic interface is already under development (albeit for another purpose). I quite frankly cant understand all the resistance to the idea that I've seen here. Why not?!?!

Yeah we've had threads about this in the past, Im totally on board. Right now we have the passive milestone contracts that pay out for just going out and doing things like flyby's and stuff. Its actually no problem to fund your whole agency without ever accepting a regular contract. The real problem is they're invisible from a UI standpoint. I don't know what the simplest way to build that in would be. It seems odd to manually input a bunch of parameters and then go out and capture passive rewards when you could skip the input process entirely and just go do it and get paid. At the same time right now there isn't a clear way to see those missions and gauge the cost-benefit when we don't know what the pay-out will be until they're complete.