NASA SLS/Orion/Payloads

[tater]

1 minute ago, ZooNamedGames said:

He also didn’t say 2020 wasn’t possible. He said that 2021 was. He’s likely covering his tail so if something goes wrong, no one can say he was wrong. Plus, he can set himself up to be “ahead of schedule” by intentionally listing it as later.

Nonsense.

Read what he said. He said that they MIGHT be able to achieve 2021. That means (hard to believe I have to parse simple English for people), in no uncertain terms that it might NOT be achievable in 2021. There is no reality in which it's possible (likely according to other sources) it might not make 202, and still possible it does make 2020. 2020 is not happening, period.

2 minutes ago, Barzon Kerman said:

Bridenstine is very good at navigating the political oceans of human BEO exploration.

Yeah, he is. I like Bridenstine, actually, he has a tough job, however, and SLS/Orion has been mismanaged a long time (that's not my opinion, that's the opinion of the NASA OIG).

[ZooNamedGames]

1 hour ago, tater said:

Nonsense.

Read what he said. He said that they MIGHT be able to achieve 2021. That means (hard to believe I have to parse simple English for people), in no uncertain terms that it might NOT be achievable in 2021. There is no reality in which it's possible (likely according to other sources) it might not make 202, and still possible it does make 2020. 2020 is not happening, period.

Yeah, he is. I like Bridenstine, actually, he has a tough job, however, and SLS/Orion has been mismanaged a long time (that's not my opinion, that's the opinion of the NASA OIG).

Then I’d like a detailed explanation why. All hardware exists, all hardware has been tested with the exception of Stennis. Stennis doesn’t take 18 months.

[Barzon]

Mating doesnt take 18 months, and as ZNG said, neither does the Green run.

[tater]

13 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Then I’d like a detailed explanation why. All hardware exists, all hardware has been tested with the exception of Stennis. Stennis doesn’t take 18 months.

 

8 minutes ago, Barzon Kerman said:

Mating doesnt take 18 months, and as ZNG said, neither does the Green run.

Don't know, but apparently Administrator Bridenstine knows---how weird is it that he knows stuff about the schedule of SLS that we don't, right? We're guys on an internet forum, and he runs NASA, what does he know?

[ZooNamedGames]

35 minutes ago, tater said:

 

Don't know, but apparently Administrator Bridenstine knows---how weird is it that he knows stuff about the schedule of SLS that we don't, right? We're guys on an internet forum, and he runs NASA, what does he know?

Biggest question is what did he learn that forced him to shift from his ambitious 2024 campaign to 2021 for the first launch. There's a reason. 

[tater]

21 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Biggest question is what did he learn that forced him to shift from his ambitious 2024 campaign to 2021 for the first launch. There's a reason. 

I'd be more likely to wonder why Gerst was moved. Perhaps the timelines being presented were overly optimistic, and then in some recent meeting, it was pushed back, and Bridenstine decided there needed to be a shakeup. Maybe this was starting to be a thing back when he had them look at alternate solutions for EM-1.

I think an ambitious timeline is a good thing, to borrow a term from Musk, "aspirationally." In terms of dealing with government funding, Congress, etc, ideally that doesn't fly when talking about specific flights that by all reason should have dates at this point (barring some failure), though. Artemis to the Moon, 2024, aspirational. EM-1? It's amazing that SLS doesn't have a specific DAY in mind if things are as far along as people suggest, it's not like they don't know how fast they can mate it, etc. The only supposed delay should be if the Green Run goes bad---unless some of the stuff that looks done is not in fact done.

Edited July 17, 2019 by tater

[Vanamonde]

Goodness. People are grouchy today. Ease off on the sarcasm today, please, guys? 

[Nightside]

3 hours ago, Barzon Kerman said:

2020 is definitely possible.

keep in mind, this is old. more progress has been made

Hopefully they remembered to save these as subassemblies. 

Anyone know if there is any progress on the parts of Artemis 2?

[tater]

6 minutes ago, Vanamonde said:

Goodness. People are grouchy today. Ease off on the sarcasm today, please, guys? 

I think we're good, just a little humor to lighten things up, wasn't meant in a nasty way (that's a default for me, not being nasty about stuff, so when in doubt, take it as humor).

Another story:

https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/07/17/nasa-boss-pleads-for-funding-to-ensure-2024-moon-landing/

Quote

To get there, NASA plans to launch the first SLS rocket and an uncrewed Orion capsule on a flight around the moon in 2021. The mission is known as Artemis 1.

“When we go around the moon uncrewed, we will be able to navigate around the moon, to be able to change orbits, to test all of the systems we need to test with the Orion crew capsule and the European service module,” Bridenstine said Wednesday.

In the 2022-23 timeframe, NASA plans to launch Artemis 2, the first flight of an SLS and Orion spacecraft with a crew on board. The astronauts will initially test Orion’s systems in Earth orbit before heading out on a trajectory that will carry them on a “free return” loop around the moon and back to an ocean splashdown.

(more likely NET 2023 for Artemis-2 now).

[tater]

 

[Guest]

I don’t think we’ll ever find out the reality behind why Gerst was sidelined out of a leadership role. He seems like an old school type of guy but in his job experience almost certainly trumps youthful exuberance >_<. 

From the outside looking in it’s troubling for me because it reeks of a politically motivated shake-up... Whatever the case it’s done now. NASA still has a hugely important part to play in human exploration, if this is what is needed for it to move forward under the current management then fine, there’s a lot of work to be done and I wouldn’t want Bridenstine’s job.

6 hours ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Then I’d like a detailed explanation why. 

Well, that’s a complicated topic with a lot of conjecture and arguments surrounding politics XD.

you kinda have to come to your own conclusions about SLS, because imo you aren’t going to see a detailed public explanation.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Guest

[Bill Phil]

I’ve heard that some guidance equipment will be mounted off kilter on the first vehicle. Someone appears to have screwed something up for that.

[Silavite]

2 hours ago, Bill Phil said:

I’ve heard that some guidance equipment will be mounted off kilter on the first vehicle. Someone appears to have screwed something up for that.

As long as they aren't gyroscopes hammered in upside down.

[Ultimate Steve]

Artemis has a logo now.

[tater]

23 minutes ago, Ultimate Steve said:

Artemis has a logo now.

Spoiler

 

[ZooNamedGames]

4 hours ago, Bill Phil said:

I’ve heard that some guidance equipment will be mounted off kilter on the first vehicle. Someone appears to have screwed something up for that.

Link to this?

[Nightside]

1 hour ago, Ultimate Steve said:

Artemis has a logo now.

Generated on Shuttle era word processing software.

but that’s ok, NASA usually likes a lot of symbolism in its logos, so what have we got here?

Obviously the gray hemisphere is the moon, the blue curve is Earth, but it could also be Artemis’s bow, with a big pointy arrow.

The red curve is a kind of rocket plume or orbit I guess, but it doesn’t look very near rectilinear to me.

Any other thoughts?

[Barzon]

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/artemis-identity

[Bill Phil]

3 hours ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Link to this?

Sourced straight from the mouths of individuals working on the project at Marshall Space Flight Center.

[tater]

Right now the NET launch date for Artemis-1 (formerly EM-1) is the late Q4 2021, and most expect 2022 as more realistic (for reasons none of us know, but must be true, else Bridenstine doesn't say it).

ULA Vulcan is April 2021 as their goal.

BO's NG and SpaceX's SH/SS both I think simply list 2021 as operational dates, with SpaceX claiming orbital test flights as soon as next year.

Given that EM-1 is simply a test flight, there's a decent chance both the huge "new space" LVs are operationally flying before SLS is---something I would not have said even a year ago, as much as I dislike SLS.

 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Nightside said:

Generated on Shuttle era word processing software.

but that’s ok, NASA usually likes a lot of symbolism in its logos, so what have we got here?

Obviously the gray hemisphere is the moon, the blue curve is Earth, but it could also be Artemis’s bow, with a big pointy arrow.

The red curve is a kind of rocket plume or orbit I guess, but it doesn’t look very near rectilinear to me.

Any other thoughts?

Don’t forget the “E” is slightly fading out on its top area. XD

[kerbiloid]

14 hours ago, Bill Phil said:

some guidance equipment will be mounted off kilter on the first vehicle

As  usually.

Spoiler

 

 

[KSK]

9 hours ago, Nightside said:

Generated on Shuttle era word processing software.

but that’s ok, NASA usually likes a lot of symbolism in its logos, so what have we got here?

Obviously the gray hemisphere is the moon, the blue curve is Earth, but it could also be Artemis’s bow, with a big pointy arrow.

The red curve is a kind of rocket plume or orbit I guess, but it doesn’t look very near rectilinear to me.

Any other thoughts?

Looks like a launch escape tower in which one of the solid motors has come loose, flown off at random and smacked into the top.

Welcome to the Kartemis Program.

Snarks aside, I agree with @Nightside.

[kerbiloid]

Apollo and Artemis were also managing mice, so a lot of gray is in order.

The blue arc with the red curve look like a rear end and a tail of a psychedelic colored mouse sticking out from a hole.
The lambda-looking figure is the mouse hole entrance.

The Moon is made of cheese.

So, the emblem in whole depicts successful return of a psychedelic colored mouse to her native hole from the far, mouse-gray Moon made of cheese. Artemis bless!

Edited July 20, 2019 by kerbiloid

[jadebenn]

10 hours ago, tater said:

Right now the NET launch date for Artemis-1 (formerly EM-1) is the late Q4 2021, and most expect 2022 as more realistic (for reasons none of us know, but must be true, else Bridenstine doesn't say it).

I'm not buying that NET is late 2021. The most uncharitable reading of Bridenstine's comment is simply, "we've given up on 2020."  Berger was the one who jumped to that meaning late 2021, and I take anything he says about SLS with a grain of salt after his (misleading) reporting on the second mobile launcher.

If I were a government official tasked with giving a pessimistic-but-realistic estimate for Artemis 1 based on the information currently available, I'd go with mid-2021. That gives you half-a-year to a year of schedule margin to screw-up and/or deal with unforeseen issues with CS-1/the engines/launch infrastructure and still be "on-schedule." Adding to this, I believe this is actually the same estimate the GOA predicted. 

Any delays after core stage assembly completes will be of a fundamentally different nature to those that came before. Instead of dealing with problems in product development, you'll be dealing with problems in product implementation, or with the testing process itself.

10 hours ago, tater said:

ULA Vulcan is April 2021 as their goal.

BO's NG and SpaceX's SH/SS both I think simply list 2021 as operational dates, with SpaceX claiming orbital test flights as soon as next year.

Given that EM-1 is simply a test flight, there's a decent chance both the huge "new space" LVs are operationally flying before SLS is---something I would not have said even a year ago, as much as I dislike SLS.

Vulcan I can buy. It could get delayed too, but I could buy that timeline. They can finish the man-rating process after they start flying, since they're going to be using Atlas V for CCrew at first, so that won't hold them up the way it does with SLS.

Starship's 2021 date is laughable, unless they're trying to claim launching one of the water-towers counts.

I don't know enough about NG to comment on it.

Edited July 20, 2019 by jadebenn