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New LockMart lander proposed for Moon.

Looks like it's the Mars lander minus the aerodynamics and other Mars specific elements:

Crewed-Lunar-Lander-concept_high-sun-144

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2 hours ago, tater said:

New LockMart lander proposed for Moon.

Looks like it's the Mars lander minus the aerodynamics and other Mars specific elements:

Crewed-Lunar-Lander-concept_high-sun-144

Looks very Kerbal-ish!

Im geussing those engines are RL10s but could they be replaced by a BE-3U, or would that be too overpowered?

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3 hours ago, tater said:

New LockMart lander proposed for Moon.

Looks like it's the Mars lander minus the aerodynamics and other Mars specific elements:

Crewed-Lunar-Lander-concept_high-sun-144

How do they plan to get that thing there? It's 60+ tonnes.

Unless the plan is to launch it empty on an SLS or something.

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31 minutes ago, Bill Phil said:

How do they plan to get that thing there? It's 60+ tonnes.

Unless the plan is to launch it empty on an SLS or something.

Maybe on the mythical Block 2.... now farther away (as we expected):

 

Edited by tater
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Dry mass of that Moon lander is 22 tons. Presumably you could send it partially filled to the Gateway (since they're all about the Gateway), then use a commercial vehicle to fill it with props (hydrolox).

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2 hours ago, tater said:

Dry mass of that Moon lander is 22 tons. Presumably you could send it partially filled to the Gateway (since they're all about the Gateway), then use a commercial vehicle to fill it with props (hydrolox).

Probably. They do want to make it reusable, if built, so there'll need to be a decently sized depot in orbit.

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Spoiler

1. Who made the photo? And where are the stars?

2. Will they learn from the past mistakes and take care about the lander visibility from the Earth?
Say, have a big spotlight or so.
bat-signal.jpg

 

Also if set the spotlight horizontally, the Earth astronomers would be watching the 100m long shadows of crew members running and jumping on the Moon.

 

Edited by kerbiloid
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18 hours ago, tater said:

Maybe on the mythical Block 2.... now farther away (as we expected):

 

At this rate, by the time SLS flies, there will be two new HLVs (Vulcan and New Glenn) capable of lifting Orion and DSG components to TLI. And that's if we ignore BFR.....

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9 minutes ago, _Augustus_ said:

At this rate, by the time SLS flies, there will be two new HLVs (Vulcan and New Glenn) capable of lifting Orion and DSG components to TLI. And that's if we ignore BFR.....

Doubt that NG or Vulcan can throw 25t+ to TLI.

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49 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

Doubt that NG or Vulcan can throw 25t+ to TLI.

Vulcan can throw 16t to GTO and New Glenn can send 13t to GTO. Im pretty sure the Delta-V required to reach GTO is much lower than to reach the a Trans-lunar injection, so you can expect the TLI payload te be lower than the GTO payload. Neither Vulcan nor New Glenn (2 stage) can send a 25t+ payload to the Moon. So you are right.

Falcon Heavy might just be able to send the lander to a TLI, but im not sure if SpaceX is willing to expend their boosters and maybe also expand their cargo bay.

Maybe the 3 stage New Glenn can send it to the Moon.

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29 minutes ago, NSEP said:

Vulcan can throw 16t to GTO and New Glenn can send 13t to GTO. Im pretty sure the Delta-V required to reach GTO is much lower than to reach the a Trans-lunar injection, so you can expect the TLI payload te be lower than the GTO payload. Neither Vulcan nor New Glenn (2 stage) can send a 25t+ payload to the Moon. So you are right.

Falcon Heavy might just be able to send the lander to a TLI, but im not sure if SpaceX is willing to expend their boosters and maybe also expand their cargo bay.

Maybe the 3 stage New Glenn can send it to the Moon.

Well if we're talking about Lockheed's lander concept, it could be launched into LEO fully loaded with propellant and then could do TLI itself. From what I can find it's a single stage design, so it may just have the delta-v. Of course, you then need to refuel it.

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8 minutes ago, Bill Phil said:

Well if we're talking about Lockheed's lander concept, it could be launched into LEO fully loaded with propellant and then could do TLI itself. From what I can find it's a single stage design, so it may just have the delta-v. Of course, you then need to refuel it.

Then it would probably be possible on an New-Glenn/Vulcan rocket doing it that way.

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1 hour ago, sh1pman said:

Does it have enough dV to land and then launch back to NRHO as a single stage?

The dv of the thing is ~4600 m/s. It could actually make LLO from LEO.

It cannot sortie from Gateway to the surface and back as far as I can tell. It's ~750 m/s to LLO from Gateway, then 1800-2200 each way to the surface and back.

(did I mention that Gateway is stupid yet?)

Edited by tater
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32 minutes ago, tater said:

The dv of the thing is ~4600 m/s. It could actually make LLO from LEO.

It cannot sortie from Gateway to the surface and back as far as I can tell. It's ~750 m/s to LLO from Gateway, then 1800-2200 each way to the surface and back.

(did I mention that Gateway is stupid yet?)

Well, gateway is supposed to have ion engines and significant maneuvering capacity, right? Could probably rendezvous...

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35 minutes ago, tater said:

(did I mention that Gateway is stupid yet?)

I think you did, significantly more than once...:)

So the reason why the Gateway will be at NRHO is because Orion can't visit any lower orbit. It is this way, because Orion's ESM is a copy of ATV service module and has 2 times less fuel than Apollo CSM. NASA decided to keep it small because SLS Block 1 can't send more than 26t to TLI... Did I get everything right?

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