totm nov 2023 SpaceX Discussion Thread

[tater]

The old tower needs to be reskinned

[cubinator]

That blurry image looks to me like a really sleek tower. 

[mikegarrison]

1 hour ago, tater said:

Will it not even have a portable toilet? I think Orion has something like that.

Everything I have read or seen for CST-100 says they will rely on astronauts emptying their buffers before the flight, then wearing diapers for any in-flight issues.

[tater]

4 minutes ago, mikegarrison said:

Everything I have read or seen for CST-100 says they will rely on astronauts emptying their buffers before the flight, then wearing diapers for any in-flight issues.

They either have some contingency supplies (Apollo style adhesive zip bags?), or they must be aiming for a short flight.

The commercial crew contract is supposed to include all the provisions of NASA-STD 3001 Vol 2, which specifically mentions waste collection, though I suppose that a diaper might well meet minimum requirements (yuck).

Let's hope they close and dock quickly!

[sevenperforce]

1 hour ago, tater said:

Will it not even have a portable toilet? I think Orion has something like that.

Assuming it has nothing at all, then will it only do really rapid transfers to ISS, akin to the last Soyuz flight that docked a few hours after launch?

(zero-g bathroom issues are pretty interesting/important, IMNSHO)

I suppose you are one of the "H is humble" people then, too?

It's just mind-boggling to me that the majority of people now interpret IMHO as "In My Honest Opinion".

1 hour ago, tater said:

Not grandpa's crew access arm:

 

THE HYPE IS REAL

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

On Crew Dragon vs. Soyuz crampedness:

From pictures, it really looks like the Crew Dragon has more space.

Even if all of the surrounding area is filled with payload, the seats are still farther away from each other.

However, it appears that SpaceX is using some "tricks" to make it look bigger.

First, their consoles and controls, although roughly the same distance from the astronauts faces, are thin and there is space behind them. Although this may use up just as much volume, it looks more open. 

Second, the walls are mostly even. The inside looks like a cylinder, not a cylinder with a bunch of bulges on it protruding into the cabin.

Third, most of the official SpaceX photos are shot with a slightly fisheye lens though large windows or doors, an angle that appears not to be possible with the soyuz.

Finally, they paint the walls white. Although they are not not in the photo I chose, they are still reflect light like white does. This is a well known interior decoration trick that, while not making the room "larger" per se, makes rooms appear much more light, open, and airy. By contrast, the Soyuz is mostly darkish grays and greens.

53 minutes ago, tater said:

Not grandpa's crew access arm:

[...]

Looks like Mk3 crew modules.

[CatastrophicFailure]

2 minutes ago, Mad Rocket Scientist said:

From pictures, it really looks like the Crew Dragon has more space.

 

2 minutes ago, Mad Rocket Scientist said:

However, it appears that SpaceX is using some "tricks" to make it look bigger.

 

Keep in mind, Soyuz has a whole extra module once the first couple hours are over and they’re in orbit. I’m just guessing, but I think that console in the Dragon and maybe the seats can be folded out of the way for more space, too. 

I wonder if they could fit a small orbital module in the trunk/on top of S2, that they could flip around and grab ala Apollo for longer missions...

[IncongruousGoat]

2 hours ago, sh1pman said:

Well, there's finally a use for LOP-G - being a fuel depot for skycrane.

2 hours ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

And a space toilet, apparently... 

So... it's a space truck stop. Wow. Remind me to not underestimate the Teamsters again - their influence is clearly farther-reaching than anyone suspected.

[tater]

1 minute ago, IncongruousGoat said:

So... it's a space truck stop. Wow. Remind me to not underestimate the Teamsters again - their influence is clearly farther-reaching than anyone suspected.

It's a long ride to the Gateway... minus facilities, that's a lot of leg crossing.

 

[CatastrophicFailure]

12 minutes ago, tater said:

It's a long ride to the Gateway... minus facilities, that's a lot of leg crossing.

 

Not to mention the ever-present threat of, ahem, space junk... 

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

34 minutes ago, Mad Rocket Scientist said:

From pictures, it really looks like the Crew Dragon has more space.

Since they have thrown two of them out of airlock.

 

[sevenperforce]

33 minutes ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

Keep in mind, Soyuz has a whole extra module once the first couple hours are over and they’re in orbit. I’m just guessing, but I think that console in the Dragon and maybe the seats can be folded out of the way for more space, too. 

I wonder if they could fit a small orbital module in the trunk/on top of S2, that they could flip around and grab ala Apollo for longer missions...

There's actually very little space in the trunk; the top of S2 protrudes upward into the trunk rather significantly. I supposed you could fit a BEAM in there since they've done that before. It would have to have a weird dual mating thing; the mating attachment for externally-manifested payload is inside the trunk so that would have to be moved to the top of S2.

But the flip-and-grab should be easy enough. S2 has enough pointing capability with RCS alone to hold position.

31 minutes ago, tater said:

That's what it meant when it started being used, ages ago.

Well, obviously.

31 minutes ago, tater said:

GIF is pronounced like "gin," too.

How else?

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

34 minutes ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

Keep in mind, Soyuz has a whole extra module once the first couple hours are over and they’re in orbit. I’m just guessing, but I think that console in the Dragon and maybe the seats can be folded out of the way for more space, too. 

I wonder if they could fit a small orbital module in the trunk/on top of S2, that they could flip around and grab ala Apollo for longer missions...

True, but again, one large volume appears larger than two smaller ones. And is more useful since it can be more efficiently used.

1 minute ago, sevenperforce said:

There's actually very little space in the trunk; the top of S2 protrudes upward into the trunk rather significantly. I supposed you could fit a BEAM in there since they've done that before. It would have to have a weird dual mating thing; the mating attachment for externally-manifested payload is inside the trunk so that would have to be moved to the top of S2.

But the flip-and-grab should be easy enough. S2 has enough pointing capability with RCS alone to hold position.

[...]

What if S2 was the orbital module? Put docking and life support equipment on it, hidden inside the trunk, then dock dragon onto it. We know it has a built in fuel drain system, so it wouldn't be that hard to turn it into a wet workshop.

[magnemoe]

1 hour ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

 

Keep in mind, Soyuz has a whole extra module once the first couple hours are over and they’re in orbit. I’m just guessing, but I think that console in the Dragon and maybe the seats can be folded out of the way for more space, too. 

I wonder if they could fit a small orbital module in the trunk/on top of S2, that they could flip around and grab ala Apollo for longer missions...

Totally possible, Orion has an plan like this, its however only something you will do with it for deep space operations or special abilities. 
The Orion asteroid capture mission planned to use it for airlock and extra space, probably some lab equipment to. 

Soyuz need it as its so cramped, as I understand it was also planned for Moon missions. 

[Val]

Moved the Tesla privatization discussion to a "private" thread .

And I also thought it was Honest.

[Xd the great]

15 hours ago, magnemoe said:

Totally possible, Orion has an plan like this, its however only something you will do with it for deep space operations or special abilities. 
The Orion asteroid capture mission planned to use it for airlock and extra space, probably some lab equipment to. 

Soyuz need it as its so cramped, as I understand it was also planned for Moon missions. 

The soyuz was so cramped tall astronauts could not fit in, and some astronauts never got the chance to fly once the shuttle retired. 

Dragon to the rescue?

Alsp, is it possible to do space tourism and crs missions at the same time? Place 6 more living cargos and some spare food and water and diapers, use the dragon 2, and profit. NASA pays less, SpaceX earns more, people get to go to space for 2 weeks.

[magnemoe]

13 minutes ago, Xd the great said:

The soyuz was so cramped tall astronauts could not fit in, and some astronauts never got the chance to fly once the shuttle retired. 

Dragon to the rescue?

Alsp, is it possible to do space tourism and crs missions at the same time? Place 6 more living cargos and some spare food and water and diapers, use the dragon 2, and profit. NASA pays less, SpaceX earns more, people get to go to space for 2 weeks.

Think the Dragon 2 will be docked to the station and works as life boat the same way Soyuz is used. I assume that they had spare Soyuz then they used the shuttle.
Some rode up on Soyuz and down with shuttle so the Soyuz was left as an life boat. 

[Xd the great]

6 minutes ago, magnemoe said:

Think the Dragon 2 will be docked to the station and works as life boat the same way Soyuz is used. I assume that they had spare Soyuz then they used the shuttle.
Some rode up on Soyuz and down with shuttle so the Soyuz was left as an life boat. 

I dont think there are excess soyuz onboard now.

[cubinator]

20 minutes ago, Xd the great said:

I dont think there are excess soyuz onboard now.

There are usually two Soyuz at the station, for 3 astronauts each. So if the station must be evacuated, the astronauts all have a spaceship to get into.

[magnemoe]

35 minutes ago, cubinator said:

There are usually two Soyuz at the station, for 3 astronauts each. So if the station must be evacuated, the astronauts all have a spaceship to get into.

Yes, I assumed so, also that they would need soyuz for the evacuating the astronauts who came up with the shuttle. After they stopped with the shuttle they only use soyuz. 
I guess they rotate however so the crew leaving will leave in the oldest. 

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

1 hour ago, Xd the great said:

17 hours ago, magnemoe said:

Totally possible, Orion has an plan like this, its however only something you will do with it for deep space operations or special abilities. 
The Orion asteroid capture mission planned to use it for airlock and extra space, probably some lab equipment to. 

Soyuz need it as its so cramped, as I understand it was also planned for Moon missions. 

The soyuz was so cramped tall astronauts could not fit in, and some astronauts never got the chance to fly once the shuttle retired. 

Soyuz has been expanded to become TMA ("TM anthropometric").
NASA payed for that to send oversized persons  

Why couldn't they just limit their astronaut dimensions with battle tank standards? Is NBA their major sponsor?

 

1 hour ago, magnemoe said:

Think the Dragon 2 will be docked to the station and works as life boat the same way Soyuz is used. I assume that they had spare Soyuz then they used the shuttle.
Some rode up on Soyuz and down with shuttle so the Soyuz was left as an life boat. 

The cancelled 4..8-crew Zarya was also purposed as a rescue capsule for further Mir-like stations.

But can Dragon stay docked for months/a year?

Edited August 16, 2018 by kerbiloid

[tater]

56 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

But can Dragon stay docked for months/a year? 

Commercial crew requires that vehicles can stay on orbit (docked to ISS for at least 210 days.

[tater]

 

[Scotius]

That's a sleek looking piece of equipment. It will fit well with BFRs

[sevenperforce]

27 minutes ago, tater said:

 

That looks......very 21st-century.