Brotoro Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 I'm glad we got the answer to the question of where SpaceX will be targeting their first SuperHeavy/Starship orbital test... but the thought of dropping 28 Raptors into the drink makes me sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 42 minutes ago, sevenperforce said: Deimos is currently undergoing retrofit at Brownsville. The FCC filing doesn't specifically say that the booster will splash down. I wonder if they try to land it on Deimos if only to recover the engines. Indeed, it says splashdown for the Starship, but TOUCHDOWN for the booster. They are recovering it. It would fit on an ASDS, and it only masses a couple hundred tons (barges hold 10X that). For this test, they could literally put 6 F9 legs on SH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCgothic Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceception Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 This sounds different from another contract they were awarded, which I believe would've only needed one ship, and involved the header tanks. That could potentially be completed this year, setting up for this new contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSchmuckatelli Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 Contract to be completed by the end of '22? So - is this going to be a Starship demonstration, or two CargoDragon capsules with fuel inside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuessingEveryDay Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 33 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said: Contract to be completed by the end of '22? So - is this going to be a Starship demonstration, or two CargoDragon capsules with fuel inside? Crew Dragon uses hypergolic fuesl, not cryo-fuel. I suppose they could do something similar by fitting 2 tanks in the cargo bay, one liquid methane, and the other liquid oxygen, then they could work their way up to full size Starships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSchmuckatelli Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, GuessingEveryDay said: Crew Dragon uses hypergolic fuesl, not cryo-fuel. I suppose they could do something similar by fitting 2 tanks in the cargo bay, one liquid methane, and the other liquid oxygen, then they could work their way up to full size Starships. That is what I was thinking. Dragon is a working space craft. Starship is a proof of concept with one successful landing. Admittedly, the pace of SX is such that they might be able to get one or more SS's to space in the time frame - and possibly try to dock those behemoths... But that might be pushing it a bit. I did not read the award and specifications - but were it me - I'd throw up two Dragon's with a fuel-transfer apparatus in each - test in orbit and pocket the cash for SS Edited May 14, 2021 by JoeSchmuckatelli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 1 hour ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said: Contract to be completed by the end of '22? So - is this going to be a Starship demonstration, or two CargoDragon capsules with fuel inside? 100% Starship. There's a zero % chance they rig up Dragons to transfer "large scale" cryo management and transfer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSchmuckatelli Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 (edited) 31 minutes ago, tater said: 100% Starship. There's a zero % chance they rig up Dragons to transfer "large scale" cryo management and transfer. I think you're absolutely correct; going SS is 'their thing'. Still - a highly aspirational timeline. Edit: frankly, I love it. Their stark departure from the cautious pace of how things have been done for so long is one of the reasons I watch them with such interest Edited May 14, 2021 by JoeSchmuckatelli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegarrison Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 7 minutes ago, tater said: As I recall, Vostok 1 actually landed west of where they launched it from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 17 minutes ago, mikegarrison said: As I recall, Vostok 1 actually landed west of where they launched it from. Wow, somehow I did not know that. If his flight counts as orbital, so would the Starship flight (else the first man in orbit was actually Titov). In this case it's a test of orbital velocity reentry for SS, and a test of the booster, period. There's not really any useful testing of the booster except static fires (for the LV, and to test the pad/GSE/vibration), and an actual flight. Any hop seems like it needs a mass simulator, and the mass on top is ~1300t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCgothic Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 43 minutes ago, tater said: Wow, somehow I did not know that. If his flight counts as orbital, so would the Starship flight (else the first man in orbit was actually Titov). In this case it's a test of orbital velocity reentry for SS, and a test of the booster, period. There's not really any useful testing of the booster except static fires (for the LV, and to test the pad/GSE/vibration), and an actual flight. Any hop seems like it needs a mass simulator, and the mass on top is ~1300t. Looks like Vostok did actually complete a full circle though (the ground track moves), and had to retrofire to get down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegarrison Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 20 minutes ago, RCgothic said: Looks like Vostok did actually complete a full circle though (the ground track moves), and had to retrofire to get down. Vostok 1 was definitely in orbit. Without the de-orbit burn, it would have been in orbit for about 20 days (which would have killed Gagarin). But it's mildly questionable whether it completed an orbit. It did come down before making a complete orbit in terms of ground track, but because the Earth rotated, the ground moved. The craft did complete a full orbit in its own reference frame. (The Soviets kept it secret that Gagarin had ejected from the capsule before landing, because under the FAI rules in place at the time that would have disqualified the flight from counting as a manned orbital flight.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 11 hours ago, Beccab said: If everything goes fine with BN3 and soft water landing, I could see them attempt an actual landing or even booster catching with BN4 I doubt they try to catch BN4 with the tower, my guess is that they put legs on it. Always see the catch with tower as an future plan, they will need very high reliability and control to pull that off, hot gas trusters is pretty much required I think. Yes you save the weight of the legs but the main benefit is that its very fast to get it back on pad, you just rotate the arm rater than have to move an huge transporter over, lift it on to it with an crane, move it to pad and lift it back up. But yes you need to relivable land within say 2 meters to catch, that is measured at the grind fins not the bottom. My guess is that the catch will be F shaped on the side of the tower, this reduce taking out the tower and pad then you miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YNM Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, tater said: There's a zero % chance they rig up Dragons to transfer "large scale" cryo management and transfer. Was thinking if maybe they could do some earlier prototyping using the trunk of Dragon... As I understand it SS refueling is to be done from the engine end, right ? Edited May 14, 2021 by YNM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCgothic Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 The orbital launch mount is getting some extra extensions it seems: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCgothic Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 Also Elon stating what we'd all figured out already: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 SN15 is being lifted to the pad (guess the winds died down). They need to get it on the pad so they can safely inspect it if nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceFace545 Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 Now we get to see if Starship actually works or if it was just a fluke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman.Spiff Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, SpaceFace545 said: Now we get to see if Starship actually works or if it was just a fluke. I mean it's still a prototype and I would be impressed if it can just get up to the correct altitude and maybe hit the pad. Getting to the top simulates getting to orbit sorta, so even if it fails to land the second time, it might not be fulfilling the goals of *starship* but it would be like getting to use a Saturn V twice. Plus, there's been like what? two weeks of downtime? Even the fastest falcon refurbishments take just under two months. They also haven't done any engine swaps (from what I can tell), so that's a good indicator of Raptor advancement. Edited May 14, 2021 by Spaceman.Spiff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuessingEveryDay Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, SpaceFace545 said: Now we get to see if Starship actually works or if it was just a fluke. Do you not have any faith? Does anything that SpaceX does impress you? They are doing something that only sci-fi has been able to do. Politics, or competition made innovative companies rest on their laurels, and not do anything new and amazing. SpaceX will motivate humanity to innovate, to dream. This is why I want to move to Mars. To get away from people like this. Meaningless rant. Edited May 14, 2021 by GuessingEveryDay Wrong tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 20 minutes ago, SpaceFace545 said: Now we get to see if Starship actually works or if it was just a fluke. This is a nonsensical statement. These SN Starships are test articles as part of an iterative process. If they gather data, they worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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