totm nov 2023 SpaceX Discussion Thread

[Beccab]

Closeup of the tile attachment pins on a flat surface (forward flap)

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

4 hours ago, mikegarrison said:

had the expected consistency, stickiness, and other mechanical properties.

...and I'm sure there's a paper on this.  How else will future researchers build on these discoveries?

[KSK]

6 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

...and I'm sure there's a paper on this.  How else will future researchers build on these discoveries?

Sure. It’ll be published in the Annals of Bathroom Simulants. I think I spelled that correctly…

Seriously though, I imagine there’s a decent sized market for this kind of thing. Pretty sure I remember hearing about a company who manufactured various malodorous gases for testing air fresheners with, for example. Sure, you could use hydrogen sulphide or something equally pungent but HS doesn’t really match up to any, ahem, biogas products.

[tater]

They likely need testing with a wide range of simulants. Apollo 8 had the terrible case of Frank Borman getting sick at both ends, and a bag with stick-um on it vs something closer to liquid was apparently not super effective.

 

[Spaceman.Spiff]

8 hours ago, tater said:

 

Yet more reason for some sort of orbital module. Put a cupola, and a toilet on that, dock Dragon to it.

If leaving a crew SS test article in LEO seems like a bad idea (and I can see a few reasons it would be), they could launch a smaller test module. Maybe use the same mold line as the fairing, only it's a hab to test new life support tech, toilets, etc.

Would that be nested inside the trunk, but attached to the stage? That's how I imagine it would have to work.

Plus, in that case it could possibly be rescued because they would have a docking port rather than a dome.

[AtomicTech]

Honestly, kinda sad that there's a very significant chance that Starship and Superheavy don't launch until next year 'cause it's stuck in bureaucratic hell.

Edited September 21, 2021 by AtomicTech

[tater]

17 minutes ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

Would that be nested inside the trunk, but attached to the stage? That's how I imagine it would have to work.

Plus, in that case it could possibly be rescued because they would have a docking port rather than a dome.

I was actually thinking a separate launch, then you reuse that mini-station for the commercial flights.

[Spaceman.Spiff]

10 minutes ago, tater said:

I was actually thinking a separate launch, then you reuse that mini-station for the commercial flights.

Interesting. So maybe something like Dragon XL but probably with beefier solar panels?

[tater]

1 minute ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

Interesting. So maybe something like Dragon XL but probably with beefier solar panels?

This would obviously be predicated on demand for commercial launches. Dragon XL is certainly a possibility (I think I mentioned it up thread in this context). SpaceX sorted out booster landing during normal F9 operations such that the landing and recovery dev could be tested at low cost (the cost of the added hardware/effort) on vehicles that were already paid for.

They are currently contracted to dev Dragon XL, which of course leverages the Dragon pressure vessel, so it seems like they could test that vehicle (or the pressurized part, anyway) by using it as a small station in LEO. They'd get long term flight data, and they'd have a docking target for Dragon. Course they would lose Dragon XL commonality if they added a cupola to it somehow.

Alternately, they could make a steel tube of smaller diameter than Starship that is compatible with F9 launch. They plan on making a crew Starship, and Lunar Starhip after all using this method. So fly a 5m dia steel tube to LEO (copy the F9 fairing mold line) on top of F9. Jettison the very tip which uncovers a docking port at the nose for Dragon. The base can jettison side panels as needed to reveal a cupola at the bottom (or the cupola can be at the nose, instead, with Dragon like cover to protect it when not in use).

The steel tube would let them test Starship crew compartment behavior in space at a reduced scale, and they might get humans in it fast so they can learn from it.

[Beccab]

21 minutes ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

Interesting. So maybe something like Dragon XL but probably with beefier solar panels?

That's a great idea, probably wouldn't need even more solar panels thanks to Crew Dragon. It all would depend on how long it is certified for when flying alone, spacex's Dragon XL availability (it's expendable after all, both for gateway and flying this way) and cost

[Spaceman.Spiff]

Now I’m wondering if you could have DXL With docking ports on both ends and you could slap a bunch of them together Mir-style

[Beccab]

Reddit spacex insider:
"S21 nosecone will get the change [of putting the forward flaps 120 degrees apart]. It's an easy iteration. Fwd flaps for S21 already made on S20 design, but that will change too for S22."

Wording is a bit weird, but this means that S21 will have already the flaps moved 120 degrees apart but of the same size as S20; S22+ instead will have flaps of different dimensions too

Edit: for reference, this is how S21 will look like now:

Edited September 21, 2021 by Beccab

[zolotiyeruki]

I think it's important to remember that the "$X hundreds per kg to orbit" is a bit misleading.  It's an average cost.  The first 1kg of cargo onboard a cargo dragon costs tens of millions of dollars.  The last kg costs a few tens of dollars (for the extra fuel) at most. 

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

44 minutes ago, Beccab said:

Reddit spacex insider:
"S21 nosecone will get the change [of putting the forward flaps 120 degrees apart]. It's an easy iteration. Fwd flaps for S21 already made on S20 design, but that will change too for S22."

Wording is a bit weird, but this means that S21 will have already the flaps moved 120 degrees apart but of the same size as S20; S22+ instead will have flaps of different dimensions too

Edit: for reference, this is how S21 will look like now:

Something weird about the image - can't tell if it is the lighting... But it looks like tiles go under part of the steel (look at the forward end) 

[tater]

27 minutes ago, zolotiyeruki said:

I think it's important to remember that the "$X hundreds per kg to orbit" is a bit misleading.  It's an average cost.  The first 1kg of cargo onboard a cargo dragon costs tens of millions of dollars.  The last kg costs a few tens of dollars (for the extra fuel) at most. 

Almost all price/kg numbers are more for comparing vehicles than actual cost, since most payloads are not mass limited. For Saturn V, the mass in LEO was all used—like other launch vehicles the mass was mostly propellant, and all that capability was used.

[magnemoe]

42 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Something weird about the image - can't tell if it is the lighting... But it looks like tiles go under part of the steel (look at the forward end) 

Think it's because the tiles are less reflective than the steel so the tiles become black before the steel as it curves away from us around the nose. 
And it weirded me out a bit first to, but done some rendering and know effects like this. 

Edited September 21, 2021 by magnemoe

[KSK]

4 hours ago, AtomicTech said:

Honestly, kinda sad that there's a very significant chance that Starship and Superheavy don't launch until next year 'cause it's stuck in bureaucratic hell.

Depends which bureaucracy you’re talking about in my opinion.  It’s sad that the Bezos hissy-fit lawsuit might slow things down but I’m all in favour of the environmental assessment being done properly and well.

This isn’t a race, except for notional internet points.

As somebody put it over on Ars Technica - we’re going to see amazing things in space in my lifetime - but I doubt we’ll see anything as amazing as a beach full of baby turtles hatching out.

[AtomicTech]

4 minutes ago, KSK said:

Depends which bureaucracy you’re talking about in my opinion.  It’s sad that the Bezos hissy-fit lawsuit might slow things down but I’m all in favour of the environmental assessment being done properly and well.

This isn’t a race, except for notional internet points.

As somebody put it over on Ars Technica - we’re going to see amazing things in space in my lifetime - but I doubt we’ll see anything as amazing as a beach full of baby turtles hatching out.

I like that point of view! I'm adopting it, it's mine now. 

The AtomicTech-KSK Bureaucracy Principal

[kerbiloid]

3 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Something weird about the image - can't tell if it is the lighting... But it looks like tiles go under part of the steel (look at the forward end) 

+1

Looks like it has a sliding undernose shield, currently shifted forward.

Look at the slots, through which the nose canards are sticking out.

***

Or maybe an artist was inspired by Dali.

Edited September 21, 2021 by kerbiloid

[Minmus Taster]

6 hours ago, Beccab said:

Reddit spacex insider:
"S21 nosecone will get the change [of putting the forward flaps 120 degrees apart]. It's an easy iteration. Fwd flaps for S21 already made on S20 design, but that will change too for S22."

Wording is a bit weird, but this means that S21 will have already the flaps moved 120 degrees apart but of the same size as S20; S22+ instead will have flaps of different dimensions too

Edit: for reference, this is how S21 will look like now:

You:

Vs the guy she told you not to worry about:

[Beccab]

7 minutes ago, Minmus Taster said:

You:

Vs the guy she told you not to worry about:

Wrong order

[Spica]

8 hours ago, Beccab said:

Reddit spacex insider:
"S21 nosecone will get the change [of putting the forward flaps 120 degrees apart]. It's an easy iteration. Fwd flaps for S21 already made on S20 design, but that will change too for S22."

Wording is a bit weird, but this means that S21 will have already the flaps moved 120 degrees apart but of the same size as S20; S22+ instead will have flaps of different dimensions too

Edit: for reference, this is how S21 will look like now:

I remember there was some lively discussion about the new flap configuration when it was first announced, but I think it makes the ship look so much more put together.

[Beccab]

Looks like we missed it, but they did some GSE proof testing last night! the whole orbital farm still needs a bit of work, but is very close to completeness and may be already operative in limited capacity

[GuessingEveryDay]

This came out yesterday.

Let's ignore the fact they're using 2019 Starship, but how likely are there going to be incidents during orbit tourism, when using Starship?

[Beccab]

1 minute ago, GuessingEveryDay said:

This came out yesterday.

Let's ignore the fact they're using 2019 Starship, but how likely are there going to be incidents during orbit tourism, when using Starship?

Probably a little less than an airline with a comparable amount of passengers